Krougal

See. This man knows how to live.

And the toilet gun! Homage to one of the greatest movies of all time.

Don't forget that fossil fuels will go bad in a couple years too. Ever tried to use some old gas in your lawn mower? So how long ago was the apocalypse anyway? That is an important question that I don't recall ever seeing answered here. From the state of things, I would think it is fairly recent, like in our (the survivors) lifetime but who knows what the Pimps consider it (or if they've even considered it at all)

Follow them around for a bit invisibly? (I'm assuming that is an admin option in this game) It should be pretty obvious pretty quickly.

Yeah, I refuse to do that @%$# and yet I am a compulsive min/maxer so my solution was to mod out all the random stat differences. I guess y'all are talking later versions of Diablo, although yeah, I guess even in the original it could be tedious comparing gear. The Borderlands series are like the king of that, what seems like it should be a casual and relaxed game is actually about relentless optimization and good luck making an apples to apples comparison on the fly. Running across a shop terminal is a guaranteed timesink. No, 7DTD is very simple compared to those.

I would kill for some fried yucca about now!

It's a well known fact that the bone knife is all you need and any other weapon is for @%$#. Has always been this way as long as the bone knife has been around. End of discussion.

Absolutely!

Drinking aside, it doesn't matter if the water were toxic. Other than for certain people who like to eat glue, the glue doesn't need to be made with potable water. Dysentery is bad enough, I don't think the standing water needs anymore penalty than that. Considering how abundant murky water is from looting, I don't see why anyone would think it is unreasonable to have other options of getting it. We're still talking about giving murky water. Even as it is, it's either something you only drink in emergencies or it's a reliable water source if you have a purifier. The water purifier is still the white elephant in the room here. Oh, and the working and stocked vending machines that are EVERYWHERE.

Thank you sir. I'll give it a whirl when I get a chance. Work has been crazy this week, so I just haven't had time or energy to play.

@Roland Ok, maybe I was a bit cranky the other day, and you didn't deserve the personal attacks, but that aside: I still stand by my point about magical jars from heaven; you don't start with them on day 1, so if the water struggle is only meant to be a short-term thing, then the jars are still irrelevant since it is going to take you a few days to accumulate them. I'm also not calling for jars to be brought back, the other methods of getting water that I did mention don't really negate the "early water struggle" since you still need to boil water if you don't want dysentery and you still need to find a pot to do so. Better beverages are still worth making even if water is unlimited since carrying capacity is a thing and standing water might not always be convenient. I mean does water really need to be more a struggle than that? They could remove the helmet mod, which would mean even late game you at least need to still carry drinks and boil water.

Ammo chests for sure, especially infestation ones. Probably quest rewards too. General ammo piles maybe as well. I guess anywhere you might find other bullets is reasonable.

@Roland I don't know how you had these magical jars from heaven in A20, for some reason my A20 memory is a bit foggy, maybe I was doing something wrong, but I can tell you A19 and earlier, I dug up plenty of sand to make glass jars by the hundreds. Hardly a non-issue or something non-trivial. I feel like I wasn't doing that in A20, probably because of the removal of ethanol, which was the main reason to make jars en masse. Re-usable containers are well re-usable, so you just don't need as many. I didn't mangle anything, it simply isn't a struggle. The first day EVERYTHING is a struggle, because you have next to nothing. You need to start doing a little bit of everything, there are certain immediate priorities that are common to everyone no matter their playstyle or build. Basic survival of course being foremost of those. As to the rest, I'm done, you used to be fun to have discussions with but I feel like you'd rather argue over semantics on everything with everyone these days and it's starting to feel like talking to a lawyer. I wasn't talking about this particular change being a knee-jerk reaction. I was talking about how they have added and removed things over the years. I don't feel like they devote the time to tuning anything as they add and scrap systems wholesale. I didn't just show up here yesterday, I've been playing this game for many builds.

So I was thinking as an int focused build who travels with 2 junk turrets, it would be really beneficial to get ammo in loot but man there is so much recursion of groups in the loot.xml I really can't figure out where it makes the most sense to add it, or how much to give. Anyone have any suggestions? Or maybe have already done this.

I feel like you and Meganoth have fed that assumption. I am not interested in getting into a @%$#ing match over it and I'm not going to go back and cite posts where he said/she said, but right or wrong, that is where I got that assumption. @zztong beat me to a pretty solid explanation again, so I won't rehash it all. My own point in my last post still stands. It is not a struggle, as I iterated what was done is ineffective in making it a struggle, so it is good if you say that is not what TFP intended, because it doesn't work. I agree that water more or less occupies my time about the right amount for gameplay (which comes above all else). It is not my over-riding concern, but it is a concern. The water pot is a first day priority, even if I find a helmet water purifier in my first POI. I am going to need glue and I am not going to sit next to the water source all day. I feel I average around 10 jars of murky water per POI, which is plenty to keep hydrated with a filter, but I'd rather drink a more efficient beverage and have more water for glue & stew. So if we could magically scoop jars of murky water out of a pond, boil snow (something else we used to be able to do that I feel we should still be able to do) or even get buckets full of water and boil them, I don't feel like it would really change any of the above. The only difference it would make to my playstyle would be that I probably would just drink murky water all the time once I got a purifier. The water purifier might be OP, but it is hardly game-breaking. I would not be heartbroken if it were removed. It would make goldenrod tea actually useful, since one could drink a bunch of murky water to load up and then cure their dysentery. I would probably make more glue as well as foods that require water, but once again, regardless there still comes a point where I stop making glue and water is not the bottleneck on cooking so it doesn't make a lot of difference. So why am I making a big deal out of something that doesn't make a lot of difference to me? Maybe because it seems like a better experience to provide a few more options. and it doesn't go against what seems to have become the focus of the argument. A lot of the systems in the game that I don't particularly care for the make or break would just be a bit of tweaking and re-balancing. I still feels like there is too much knee-jerk adding and removing things instead of putting time into tuning them. @Rotor It's because you put in an external link. It seems to be a new(ish) forum feature.

That's why we have booze!

So I guess that wasn't a good term. We all expect a certain amount of realism. A good sci-fi story gets 1 crazy concept. For this game it's zombies and then after that we expect everything to conform to realism. It then is more like "anyone driving slower than you is an idiot and anyone trying to drive faster than you is a maniac" when you're on the highway (maybe that doesn't happen on the Autobahn but it's a thing on the Interstate). So I pump the brakes at not being able to use the river that I built my base next to, because I thought just like the real world, that would be a smart thing to do, because my people have been doing it for thousands of years. Some are going to also insist on you needing to provide some kind of container, although I am fine doing the handwave at it, because the pimps want to do away with empty containers. Others might consider it too much trouble to have to purify the water after collecting it, and want to handwave that away too. Personally I don't care either way about that. I am fine with boiling the water since it is a thing, otoh glue & stews, it could just be assumed that as part of the process of making these things, we boil the water and so don't need to do it twice. The thing about water is it is kinda an all or nothing thing since no water == no life. It is either there and fairly abundant (because simple boiling makes water safe) and we don't overly concern ourselves with it, or it is not and obtaining it becomes a central theme to the story. There really isn't a lot of in between to work with.

Whatevs! You forgot the honey badger! He doesn't give a @%$# about no zombie apocalypse, he'll @%$# those zombies up!

So really, trying to make water scarce is a joke, and it seems if they would just give up on it we'd all be better off. I think @zztong summed up the reality of it perfectly, so I am not going to reiterate all his points here. As long as there are ponds and rivers and other sources, then there is water. It is silly that we can't gather and boil it. While I am not calling for the return of the jars, as was also said above by @Riamus it would be a simple matter of instead of having us drink when we scoop water with the bare hand, we get a jar of murky water. Yes, the "realists" are screaming "heretic" and others are screaming "but, muh immersion!" but face it, this game isn't realistic or very immersive. Not being able to use the water in the pond right next to us is as immersion-breaking as having a jar magically appear out of thin air. As was also pointed out, I think while there are some silly peeps who want everything to be literal and realistic and immersive in the game, there are plenty of us who don't need every little detail, this isn't a simulation. We are bent about not being able to grab water and really don't give a rats ass about the jars.

Sorry took so long. Works been crazy, was no time to play this week. So I removed the entire steelsense directory and that seems to have done the trick. Thanks again!

Thank you! I was beginning to think this was the @%$#house lawyer room instead of a bunch of gamers. THIS is the issue we should be focused on. I'm sure all the devs and Unity have professional lawyers to worry about those details and they will figure it out without you meatheads.

Lizzy is generally acknowledged as giving the most in depth analysis of it: More2Me 4Life's AI Testing: • Analyzing the Rage Mode | Liz Labz (1...

Well everyone seems to be skipping over the fact that at the moment, Unity has no clue how many actual installs you are doing. They are extrapolating data; AKA "pulling it out of their arses" Granted I am sure Steam would be happy to start furnishing that data to them, especially for a piece of the action. Advertising alone payed for the age of TV, but the information age is all about selling people's data.

Oh man, thanks so much for running this down! I know it is minor but it drives me insane.

LOL, I got on a server today for the first time in ages, was playing by myself and kept dying and finally was like @%$# this @%$#, I'm done. I been playing with headshot multiplier and reach mods for too long to play without anymore.