Zombiepoptard
-
Posts
268 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Store
Articles
A20 Bugs
A21 Bugs
Events
Posts posted by Zombiepoptard
-
-
The reason that the life skills are roped in with combat skills is because the developers don't have enough combat skills to justify them being separate. Instead of making more skills they decide to put the life skills in the mix to add more fluff.
When alpha 17's skill tree came out I thought they were going to add a significant amount of skills to flesh out and justify the system change. They've added a few relating to the weapons in alpha 18 but after that I don't think any skills were added.
It leaves much to be desired.
It feels like the big dog is snoozing on 7 days to die and more focused on the other games they've been working on behind the scene.
Joel where you at?! Used to be so active on the forum but now all we have is Roland. Sorry to Roland but I doubt he relays anything to the dev team. He's to busy shooting down your concerns.
1 -
2 hours ago, mstdv inc said:
In any game, players sooner or later come to the most effective development scheme and begin to ignore everything else.The most interesting thing was the way to this most effective development while you are trying different options.After reaching it, it is difficult to force yourself to invest points in weaker perks. Players deprive themselves of diversity.
Yes metas exist but I don't think this game can even have a meta. You would need a more skills that change passive buffs to the character. Also I don't know how well versed you are on the topic of rpg because you'd know in a lot of rpgs there is more than one meta. This game is much to light on rpg aspects to worry about that happening. This game doesn't need a skill tree and shouldn't have a skill tree. It's better off by limiting players on how many points they can put into there character. I feel like there is only one choice. What weapon do I want to use and sometimes I have to choose shotgun every time because I like farming the other skills in the tree are good to so I'm stuck having the game make a lot of choices for me. Life skills roped in with combat skill is abhorrently stupid.
0 -
17 minutes ago, playlessNamer said:
will bandits arrive 2023?
no
0 -
Games like Borderlands is what skill trees are for. Huge amounts of combat related perks separated for balance reasons. 7 days to die has swing faster and swing harder. I spit on that "perk tree" it's pathetic. The reason they give for why the perk tree is in the game is that it provides "hard choices". WHAT CHOICES!? What build choices do you think we have?? No one uses a skill tree system like the fun pimps for a reason. If you don't have enough combat related skill than a skill tree just isn't for your game. There is choices with in normal skill trees because they have so many skills that could change the way you play. It's about diversity not "hard choices"/ @%$# choices.
0 -
19 hours ago, Grue said:
You know what would be real simple? Taking a jar down to a @%$#ing stream. That is simple.
Yes, Green Hell has dew catchers, that does not mean 7d2d needs to do it too. Even if you just "want to use this cool dew catcher model someone made", then by all means add it to the game, but it certainly doesn't make any sense to get rid of stone age concept of collecting river water to force players to use the new dew catcher, does it?
For one thing, Green Hell has dry seasons, 7d2d does not. And even in the dry season players could simply build near a source of water, and thus not need one.
It comes down to player choice.
The way this mechanic is proposed to function takes more player choice away from the game than it adds.
Honestly it is not even the addition dew catchers that @%$#es me off, it is removing the concept of "things that hold water" (i.e., jars) to force me to use a dew catcher that literally outputs jars of water that makes no @%$#ing sense whatsoever.
Players should at the very least be able to ignore that dew catchers exist if they do not want to use them, and have them as an option in a desert biome where they logically might some have a use for it.
Please stop railroading players with mechanics that should be at the very most, optional.
Which brings me to the skill system.
The current skill with experience points and collectible schematics strikes a reasonable balance, no need to waste dev time reinventing the wheel for this ridiculously convoluted magazine-based education system which forces people to waste time collecting McGuffins.
Players want to play in a sandbox, not a cattle chute
I agree with Grue.
There is nothing substantial to be excited for alpha 21 and I even think this update will have a net negative.
The dew collector is probably a miss used concept from another game. Why change something that didn't need to be changed into some convoluted throw away idea.
Skill Trees are another miss used concept implemented without any insight on what a skill tree is actually used for. This isn't Borderlands were they have 60 combat related perks on one character and the only way to balance that many perks is to separate it into multiple branches. 7 days to dies skill system is egregiously miss placed and under cooked with the learn by looting system making it even worse. The reason why fallout doesn't have a skill tree is something worth pondering for the developer who's responsible.
They made the learn by looting change because they wanted to fabricate some shiny things with out actually creating something new and desirable. In pursuit of this easy to develop gimmicky reward system they had to sacrifice the progression system and some of the sandbox elements.
7 days to die fans are here for a sandbox experience. For me I love the quests and traders for something extra to the open ended sandbox experience. No need to swim upstream with all these weird system that flip sandbox elements. Instead you could put in features that lean into it. You can make exploring pois more like an immersive sim which will flip a more routine quest into a sandboxy diverse experience. People could choose how they want to build there character with a more open ended skill system to have a more sandbox leveling experience. It would only be restricted to by a skill cap. I fill like you guys are actively swimming upstream trying to make this game something that it's not instead of working around it's strengths.
1 -
On 11/12/2022 at 9:10 AM, Roland said:
Im not sure what you mean. Are you talking about walking under a tree or going inside a POI where the windows are all barricaded and there are not any light sources? If the former. I haven’t seen that, myself, and if the latter, it’s intended for you to either use a head lamp, a flashlight, or break open the windows to let light in, or stumble around in the dark.Perhaps your brightness setting is too low for your preferences? I usually turn mine down to 15% so that dark areas and nighttime are actually dark. You say that shade is like nighttime but there have been a lot of posts that nighttime, itself, is too bright at default brightness levels for a lot of people and that we can see too far and too well in the dark.
What’s your brightness level set at and what exactly are you meaning by walking into shaded areas? What shadow setting are you using?He's talking about how the shadows being to dark in the game, which they are. That's personally why I turn them off. Shadows in the game are to pronounced and sometimes do not blend in as well as they should. My buddy says the same thing. It's not about the brightness settings it's how shadows contrast with games background.
2 -
3 hours ago, bdubyah said:
I mean, I know you put rhetorical and all, but you are kidding, right? What sense would crafting legendary items make? Those should definitely be loot only.
No I'm not kidding and I explained how it would still be lootable as well. You did read "Just make a rare item needed to craft the legendary" right? Just have the legendary be broken and need the max lvl to fix it. Easy basic problem solving skills!
1. Makes your hard work getting to max level worth it in the end game
2. Crafting doesn't take a back seat.
3. AGAIN WHAT'S THE DOWNSIDE
4 hours ago, unholyjoe said:now you want it to sound as if you are owed something. hmmmm
but i know you are just fun'n .... right... hehe
Explain your grievance unholyjoe.
0 -
13 minutes ago, Roland said:
Really great interview. They answered a lot of questions regarding their design philosophy and their goals with the game. A lot of the anger from some people seems to go back to the idea that the community should have a voice in what goes into the game, what gets cut from the game, and what gets changed in the game. The developers were clear that these aspects of game development are not the domain of the community. The community is here to play what is offered and to give their feedback which will help with balancing and adjusting the fun-factor of the features TFP decided to make part of their game.
I think the community just wanted to hear from Joel and Rick to be honest. They've been distant and should re-affirm us on their plans for the game every once in awhile.
1 -
I'm with Rick F*** Gold! I want the game to be baller. This game needs a lot of work and not just the basic stuff that are guaranteed for the game. Better combat being a big one and better RPG perk tree being the other. This ain't finished tell it's finished. Combat sucks in relativity to most games. More alphas baby!!!
3 -
1 hour ago, Roland said:
Until legendary gear becomes a thing I don't think there is a chance. If legendary gear makes it into the game (something Joel really wants btw) then there is a chance that T6 could be returned to the crafting progression and the legendary tier becomes the one that is non-craftable.
Roland tell me how it makes sense for you to max out your crafting to not be able to craft a legendary? (rhetorical) Just make a rare item needed to craft the legendary. You need to find a rare item and have your crafting maxed out. crafting needs to be apart of end game and there is no downsides to my system AND YOU KNOW IT BBBBBBBBBOOOOOOOYYYYY!
0 -
I'd like to address Saven's World concerns about the forum.
The forum doesn't need to be sanitized by a professional community who ja whats it. This is where I do battle with the devs slash mods. If they want to respond to me in a goofy dismissive way than fine. I'd feel bad if their hands were tied when people are acting stupid or overly harsh toward their updates. It makes for real transparency. If someone gets their feelings hurt then forum life ain't for them. I think Roland said that if the learn by looting doesn't work out they'd change it.
side note:
I highly suggest just making magazines a rare shinny drop and give the player crafting points when you level up. I have always been a fan of the idea of separating certain skills into respective categories.
0 -
WHERE IS THE DEV VLOG!!!
1 -
We need a three animated hit combo primary attack to make melee combat acceptable. It's below average as of right now. Your hits don't flow into each other and it makes combat fill unnaturally interrupted. I know exactly what my friend is talking about when he said the combats bad and it's the main reason why he won't play the game. I hope that is on some type of road map. If not I'd highly would consider it. I know this isn't a combat game and to temper expectations for an ambitious game that tries to tackle so much but I know this game could do better with an effort to improve how the core combat works.
1 -
17 hours ago, Laz Man said:
You mean tiles...😅
ah yes tiles. Stamps are the little stuff right?
0 -
14 hours ago, Roland said:
QFT. If you have not spent any points on Living off the land you should not be trying to build a huge farm. You should just plant whatever seeds you find and harvest the crops for food and live off of whatever you manage to get as a supplement to however else you are getting food--presumably hunting.
With one perk point spent you can slowly and painfully build a farm but often with setbacks. With two and with three perk points spent it gets easier and faster to build up a self sustaining farm.
Hope they're okay with using the shotgun am I right Roland 😛
0 -
Zzzzz I'm waiting for the big update punch. In Alpha 20 It was pipe weapons and prefab stamps that made cities look like cities. I'm not here to dog but I know you guys are withholding a lot of what makes these updates huge game improvements. I'm just wondering what the first person animation team is working on. Are they working on the other game or are they still being used to improve 7 days?
quest types?
clothing stats update?
New weapons?
First person animation improvement?!?
JOEL!!! Where are you Joel!!!! come back!! I miss you! lol
I also miss when Joel did Q&A's on is youtube channel. Made some wild projections but was food for my imagination. Now the dev team has gotten chunky and Joel probably wants to slip into more of a management role and not be as hands on. Where is The Fun Pump!
2 -
9 hours ago, Roland said:
I know you were just using cooking as an example and I get your point. But I will say also that in the case of cooking as well as several other non-combat perks, the crafting recipe portions of those are gone now and separated to magazines. So a big portion of absolutely needing to max those out is gone in A21.
Yeah that's one of the good things about that update.
9 hours ago, Roland said:The fact that the 16 points is of no benefit to you is your choice by you ignoring those benefits. But they are still there.
The increased headshot and limb damage is a odd benefit that only applies to a weapon when your using it. Agility should be more stamina, fortification should be more health, strength more damage on power attack, perception more headshot damage intelligence less chance to get debuffed and more effective at dealing with debuffs. That's just ideas off the top of my head.
10 hours ago, Roland said:Do you get one of each type?
Yes you would get one of each. You could balance it out my adjusting the cost.
10 hours ago, Roland said:Maybe I'm not understanding what you are proposing with two separate skill points but I see that as a loss of hard choices.
There's a difference between a hard choice and a shotty choice. 7dtd limits the 2 big defining factor of how your going to play by making you compromise one for the other. Unless you just happened to play the way that tree wanted you to play but sometimes it compromises both. Example: I want to play fortitude not because I like the shotgun that much and not because I like farming that much but because I feel like it's an okay bundle of stuff and it limits me from play differently. Where if I had those two big choice to mix and match it would open up the rpg element of customizing how you want to play and adding more variety to my experience. People want to play differently and switch things up anyways you don't have to encourage there choices by bundling two unrelated features together. The hard choices would be within the two skill categories. You would just have to make more choices / perks for the combat trees... Probably make a hacking perk for intellect tree to make enemy poi turrets and enemy drones to turn on bandits/ zombies. You could probably do a lot more with hacking.
11 hours ago, Roland said:I like your ideas. If they were in a mod I think I would have a lot of fun playing that mod.
Thank you Roland
If I could mod this in I would. Maybe sometime in the future I'll start learning code and modding who knows. I hope modders are listening. I like skill trees in 7 days to die and don't want to go back to alpha16 but I feel like ever since alpha 17 the perk system has been a ruff draft. TFP's need to add more perks and fill out it's potential.
1 -
9 hours ago, Roland said:
You aren't wasting points. You are paying a higher cost for some of the non-combat perks that you want. Again, I'm not understanding where the actual difference lies in what we have and your proposed system other than those non-combat perks being in a generic category. You stated that you are okay with some non-combat perks costing more. If you can forget for the moment that the extra points you are paying to cross over are giving you abilities that you don't necessarily care about and simply see those extra points as the more expensive cost then you'll understand that you've already got what you want.
When I cross over to get perks in a different attribute than I've been spending in, I see those perks as being more expensive with some added benefits for a few other weapons. When you cross over to get perks in a different attribute than you've been spending in, you see those perks as being more expensive with additional benefits that are totally wasted because you don't care about them. If we change it to your method the higher expense will be there for some perks but none of the extra benefits which I guess will make you happy since you don't want them but I like them since I often use a variety of weapons besides what I am most fully perked into.
We agree that at least some of the non-combat perks should be more expensive. I'm happy with the way they are more expensive now and like it better than the way you propose. The way you propose whichever non-combat perks are chosen to be the more expensive ones will always be the more expensive ones. The way it is now it depends on what your primary attribute is. Those non-combat perks will be cheap and the rest expensive. It makes it different when you choose different paths.
I do agree that more perks would be fun though.
If I wanted to max out cooking on another tree it would cost me 16 points just for the attribute alone and getting no benefit on the attribute itself because I'm crossing over without the intent to use the weapon it applies to. I'd then have to spend 5 points on cooking mastery. That in total would be 21 points just to max out one perk that isn't on my preferred weapon's skill tree. It would be a huge task to do all of that leveling when it could just be fixed with an organized and cost efficient system. Have combat perks and social perks be leveled up with two separate skill points so you could pursue both at the same time. This way you don't have to spend a lot of time leveling up 2 perks with a boat load of skill points. The devs could balance how much skill points cost for combat and skill tree. The players would look forward to the new combat perks that this system would need to add to make it work.
1 -
4 hours ago, Roland said:
If you are willing to have some skills cost more points to level up then the current organization handles that exactly. The non-combat perks that are in your chosen attribute cost less and the ones that are in other attributes cost more.
Under your system, the same non-combat perks would always be the same every time you played. If Living off the Land was chosen to be an expensive perk to level up it would always be so every single game. In the current system, Living off the Land is cheap whenever you decide to do Fortitude but expensive whenever you choose to follow one of the other attributes so there is some variance in play.
I don't understand why you are willing to allow some skills to be more expensive and some to be cheaper but currently hate paying more for skills that outside of your chosen tree. It is the same thing but with the added bonus that you also gain some ability in other weapons.
Your Way
I choose Strength for my main attribute.
I want to farm so I pay the more expensive upgrade costs of Living off the Land
All I get for those extra costs are the perks and skills granted by living off the land.
Current Way
I choose Strength for my main attribute.
I want to farm so I pay the more expensive upgrade costs of Living off the Land
I get the LotL perks plus my headshot chances and damage increases whenever I use machine guns and knuckles.
Extra cost is extra cost. You already admitted that you would be fine paying extra cost for some non-combat perks if they were moved out of the attribute trees into a general category. So if you are fine with that added cost why are you not okay with the current added costs?
I like how you organized and showed the relative strengths and weaknesses of each tree where it concerns combat. I think that what your organization doesn't show is the advantages some attributes have in noncombat skills being cheaper if you pick that attribute (because you removed them). This is important because it makes the attributes asymmetrical in nature granting different challenges and higher difficulties depending on what is chosen.
You are fighting a ghost here. You would just have separate skill points for combat and social skills. That way when you start out you can progress down your combat route and your life style route with out having to waste points crossing over attributes. (you would still have the ability to cross over but it would only be within combat) The separation keeps the player focused on combat builds while having managing the social elements in another window. You shouldn't have to compromise on two totally different systems. Instead the compromise should be within combat and within social skills. Do you want to play a thief type character or a tanky brute. Then on the other side do you want to be a builder, miner, barter, looter and quester. The system right know is a lot of wire crossing to get off skills that should even be in the same room.
59 minutes ago, Astronomical said:Anyone who is even the least bit color blind is just scratching their head right now. 🤔 😃
the strong survive
1 -
4 hours ago, meganoth said:
Additional combat perks sound nice but are there really that many parameters left which new perks could influence? I think TFP wants weapons to feel different so for example AOE damage in fortitude guns or a damage over time (like bleed, even if called differently) on a speer or knuckles would make the weapon choice less relevant.
And we have a class that would be impossible in your scheme: Select INT and you are the brainy type with gadgets and social skills. BUT he is no fighter and has a harder time in combat. Your separation would make such a weak combat/high social class impossible. You would need to balance all weapons so they are equal otherwise nobody would select the weak ones.
I'm not saying your scheme is bad. It is another scheme that would be quite possible, with some advantages and disadvantages. But also lots of work and difficulties to find more combat perks and something that would push release back another alpha. And the ridicule of people who say TFP rehauls too much would increase tenfold not that that matters much 😉
But I'm not TFP. What I say is irrelevant and just guesswork. Just know that other forum posters have proposed similar schemes to TFP already and TFP did not adopt them (yet).
I know your not a dev I just had to throw my idea out there. People get mad at things that feel like a change with out adding any depth. I'm betting they could find some more perks to throw in the game.
0 -
If you were to separate the social skills from the combat skills this is what you would be left with.
This emphasizes the trees that are lacking perks relating to combat.
Orange is weapon related yellow is combat support perks
Perception: Has few support perks
Dead Eye
Demolition
Javelin Master
The Infiltrator
(weak to situational needs a buff) The Infiltrator
Strength: Has few support perks
Boomstick
Pummel Pete
Skull Crusher
Heavy Armor
Sexual Tyrannosaurus
Fortitude: Relatively good but still needs more perks in general
The Brawler
Machine Gunner
Pain Tolerance
Healing Factor
(maybe) Rule 1: Cardio
Agility: Perfect 👍
Archery
Gunslinger
Deep Cuts
Run and Gun
Flurry of Blows
Light Armor
Parkour
Hidden Strike
From The Shadows
Intellect: Few weapons no support perks turrets are fun though
Electrocutioner
Robotics
Social Perks: All the none combat perks would be on this tree without the gate keeping attribute system. Some skills will cost more points to level up.
My idea would included fleshing the combat perks out then having a separate tree for the social skills. I feel like I'm wasting my points when I cross trees to play the game differently and that's partly due to the type of perks that are rapped together. This is a multi-genre game that should have a skill system that is optimized for it. Combat and social perks shouldn't step on each others toes just to bring the illusion of a filled out skill tree. Add more depth add more perks.
0 -
On 8/10/2022 at 10:33 AM, meganoth said:
The attributes look exactly like classes in RPGs to me. Why is a cleric in Pathfinder never able to ride a horse as well as a fighter? Why is the druid easily better at sense motive, even though he might be less intelligent than the fighter?
A few reasons to do this come to mind:
It offers the player structure he can follow, models so to speak.
It makes it easier for the player to make a really different character the next time. If you can freely select perks you tend to always use the same ones.
And it is easier for TFP to balance classes than the individual perks in a totally open system.
The main point is the grouping of skills unrelated to features of the game in said trees. You should have more combat skills so that it would work like how you said. There should be a separate point system for combat and life style skills. You'd still have trees but it wouldn't feel like the game is choosing for you on those 2 big chooses that are completely unrelated. I should be able to progress towards a farming and sniper build without investing a boat load of skill points on these gatekeeping attribute system. My argument isn't that skill trees are dumb my argument is how you guys implemented skill trees is kinda dumb.
The two types of skills need to be separated and combat skills need to be expanded. Why do you see build videos for other rpg games and not for 7 days to die? You only see guides for what skills you should start out with. Maybe it's because the combat rpg portion of the game leaves much to be desired but first you need to reorganize how you guys do skills trees.
1 -
How they handle skill trees is why I think the fun pimps have cognitive dissonance. How can you screw up a skill tree so goood. It's one of those overlooked problems with the game. The limitations that they put on players by roping in weapons with life skills leaves me scratching my head saying what's the point. Is it to over powered to have a sniper be a farmer or are you just limiting us from playing how we want to play because skill trees sounded good.🤪 There's no rime or reason why the skill trees should work this way. Attributes contribute a lot to the problem making it very hard to mix and match skills from other skill trees. Attribute themselves only effect headshot damage and don't do much else. Could be 10x better if they would just sketch out a coherent vision.
0 -
19 hours ago, Games'n'Grumble said:
@schwanz9000 perhaps you can answer? Are there plans to add new textures for coloring? Or replacing some old textures? For example, this one (in the screenshot) I can't imagine in ordinary POIs, except for some... specific. Because it is too... what should I call it... too expressive. If a farmer, a football player and several other zombies were removed from the game because they could be too rare in the world, according to this logic, and such a texture should be replaced with something? Maybe add more wallpaper for living spaces? (please) You can also consider some other textures (for example, 3 types of awning). What do you think?🙏
Your problem is with that wallpaper but not the concrete texture right next to it being used to represent dry wall?
0
Alpha 21 Dev Diary
in News & Announcements
Posted
I don't get this argument where you must go out to quest and loot. Who isn't doing that already? don't they have enough incentive?? If there are some people not going out to loot they must really not like that part of the game. Maybe you should make that part of the game more fun and accessible. Having one quest giver in a town maybe isn't helping the problem as well. I think these devs are trying to make us believe this crap so they can put in low effort loot in the game to make looting feel more rewarding.
Tier 3 poi size but tier 5 challenge should be a thing. Having more special spawns in a medium poi should be easy to develop and a no brainer decision to make.