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Greymantle

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Posts posted by Greymantle

    my A21 suggestions/feedback

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Greymantle (see edit history)

    I would make magazines count as 2 skill ups and cut the magazines loot drops in half. Make the magazines a bit more uncommon because of this. The magazines/books dominating my loot is immersion breaking. If it was my choice, I would scrap the whole system and move back to what we had in 16.4. I would take even version 17 over this with the gate locks to slow things down.

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    Wyr3d's Mods - A21 Compatible

    in Mods

    Posted · Edited by Greymantle (see edit history)

    41 minutes ago, wyr3d said:

    For those of you having issues with the new magazine system for whichever reason that may be, I have now created a new mod that should ease your struggle somewhat. Not Just a Slow Learner increases the skill points each magazine gives in it's skill so now you won't have to grind as many magazines as before. Those skills requiring 100 magazines now only require 20, and those that required less than that are even quicker to level.

    Personally I think this is cheese, but whatever floats one's boat I guess. 

     

    How hard would it be to make each book 2 skills ups and cut the books that drop in half to make up for it? I'm thinking this will be a pain thought I would ask though. My issue with book system is not how long it takes, it's the immersion breaking part with so many book/magazine drops.

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    Traders are boring now... super, super boring.

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Greymantle (see edit history)

    It's funny to see people complaining about the traders who have been WAY OP for far too long. I go back way before traders were put into the game, and they have been OP from the start. Try playing a multi-player server and have balance between those that use the trader and those that don't. It's not even close, the trader wins hands down. Balance between the traders and the rest of the game is an issue they will never fix.

     

    If you want more balance with what ever systems you enjoy and want even more OP traders, you will have to move to mods like the rest of us.

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    Poll - Which progression system did you prefer?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Greymantle (see edit history)

    3 hours ago, Riamus said:

    You don't have to grind for magazines.  You can get them naturally as you loot.  On the other hand, in LBD you must grind your points in order to progress.  Except in something like fighting, most skills do not level up through natural use enough to keep up with your level or the game.  Crafting, for example, means you are crafting dozens or hundreds or items that you would never have crafted if it wasn't required to increase your skill.  That is grinding.  Getting magazines while you're looting as you go about your business is not grinding.  You can grind magazines if you want but that's a choice and not a choice you really have with LBD.

     I see this a lot and knew some that did it. I'm not a min-maxer I played the game sandbox style and my skills came naturally by use. With every system, there is abuse of it, but the old system felt right and worked in this setting. It sure wasn't perfect, as any of them are. It was a lot less in your face like today's magazine system. For me, the new system makes me forget I'm playing a game too much for my liking. (Immersion breaking)

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    Poll - Which progression system did you prefer?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Greymantle (see edit history)

    1 hour ago, meganoth said:

    The difference is that only this change now seems to have affected **your** game-play loop. For me not much has changed compared to A20, I don't care much whether I find or craft my weapons.

     

     

    Well yes, that is why I'm here trying to get them to see why it's so bad. The problem is they decided to change the loop after 10 years, and that is different in my book. I don't recall any changes that changed how I play the game. Gate locks no, learn by use no, perk change no, book/magazines yes. This is nothing like they have done before. Hell, the loot drops were dominated by books/magazines over any other loot I was getting. They are forcing me to use the trader to get the filter. How do I get the dukes, I don't do quests? I don't use the traders at all. Do I wait for the super rare filter drop? The looting free style game-play is almost dead now in vanilla. The game's balance between the traders and the rest of the game-play is WAY unbalanced, and they don't care. Every version patch shows this, the traders are their main focus for the last few versions and moving forward it seems.

    1 hour ago, Mister Forgash said:

    My favorite part of LBD is also it's greatest downfall, which is why I do not support it as the vanilla option. Character investment.

    It feels really cool when you hit those mile stones of.. Athletics 20, or Fisticuffs 40, or whatever. Eventually, one day you're at 100 And it feels great, but it took you all play-through to do that. Then you find some sweet new piece of loot and you want to try it out- Heck, maybe you want to know how it'll do if you revolve your build around it. .. Now you're going to have to grind for another eternity! D= - But with the learn by perks, you sip a forgettin' elixir and get right to trying it out- and I -don't- think that's bad design, just less hardcore.

    The hardcore audience is generally not the target, and that's okay!- we're the ones passionate enough to mod things to better suit ourselves anyhow.

     

    How is this any different from having to grind books to learn a new skill, which is a lot more random.

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    New content vs game mechanic overhauls

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    It's obvious they have no plan on the direction of the game. You only have to look at what the last 5 versions and all the system overhauls. Now we're getting to version 21 and who knows how many more. This is the issue with early access and getting all the money they did up front. They have no focus anymore to finish the game, they are just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks.

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    Poll - Which progression system did you prefer?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Greymantle (see edit history)

    20 minutes ago, boban said:

     

    That would make the system less painful, yes. I seriously don't know how anybody thought that finding dozens of magazines per day, most of which not changing gameplay/unlocking anything (just raising a stat that has no influence on a game whatsoever that you will probably never look at) was a good game design.

     

    Also now that I'm thinking about it... making loot depending on what you speced into feels like a bugfix rather than actual intended game design (in the context of this game, where loot is determined by where you find it and other factors)

     

    I'm just as puzzled. It's a survival crafting sandbox game. It has turned into a reading game with combat/looting loops to get said reading done.

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    Poll - Which progression system did you prefer?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    What does anyone think about magazines giving more than one skill up to cut clutter of magazine drops? Make the magazines more rare to account for more skill ups per magazine. I would rather ditch the system myself, but we know TFP if they get the crawl in something it's going to be patched to death to try and get it right or scrapped at the end.

    5 hours ago, Riamus said:

    More like they thought it was fine but when the community started saying it was too many magazines, they listened and adjusted it.  Funny when people say they don't listen.  Of course, they also had the game telemetry data to help them see how it was working for the thousands (not really sure how many and don't feel like looking at Steam data) of players, which is far better data than just from the far fewer staff players.  Balancing is always done initially by devs but there is almost always additional balancing done after releasing an update when they see how it works with a far greater number of players who may play the game in ways the devs don't.  It's a rare case where additional balancing isn't needed for a large update in any game.

     

    The main thing I'd say is that most people (and probably you) have put in more hours in this game than in almost any other game in their library, with the exception of things like MMOs or a game that is just a favorite of theirs.  For the low cost of this game, even when not on sale, that's a huge value compared to what you get in other games that you play far less.  Maybe you don't like the current state of the game, but if you've gotten a lot of enjoyment out of the game up until now, then that's a good thing.  Many games get played once through and then put down and either never picked up again or not picked up for a long time and are still considered good games.  Yet this game, in most cases, has given far more hours of enjoyment than most other games.   I'd consider that a win.  Even if I decided I didn't want to play the game anymore because of this update and there wasn't a way to play old versions or modded versions, I'd still have gotten so much value out of the small amount I paid that I wouldn't complain about it.  I've paid more and gotten far less out of almost every other game in my library.  I'm not saying not to voice your opinions.  I'm just suggesting that you consider how much value you've gotten out of the game before bashing the devs.

     If they are making changes because of the uproar, then they have already failed. As to the hours put in, that is the reason I'm upset. After all these years now they decide to put in an over-haul of said system. Yes, that makes me unhappy, it's not the game I supported the last 10 years anymore. I expect changes like this in the first few years of development, not 10 years after the fact.

    1

    Poll - Which progression system did you prefer?

    in General Discussion

    Posted

    40 minutes ago, meganoth said:

     

    How many experimental alphas have you witnessed with 7D2D? Just asking because I seem to remember that early and quite heavy-handed balancing in the experimental was the rule not the exception. Madmole explained once that he doesn't like small incremental balance steps and prefers a binary search approach, i.e. make a big change down that is sure to be too much, then half up again, all steps half the distance of the previous. Accordingly the players noticed something being too scarce, then too frequent, then slightly too scarce again. And this happened in all or almost all alphas I witnessed.

     

    And yes, they toss it out for us to do the ultimate playtesting. Most people are fine with that though, or at least they don't quit when they actually play experimental in an EA. Many players don't wait for the stable even though they would be spared the biggest imbalances and bugs.

     

    What I am saying this happened in every alpha. And I concluded that the devs and testers were probably just too "close" to the game to get a real feel of where the balance might be. And this alpha had 1.5 years time, but other recent alphas were close to that and at least a year as well, so they had practically the same time to balance it, A21 is not really special

     

     

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    @Lasher By the way, just interests me: Did you intent the third option (learn by magazine) to represent the current system in A21 or did you intend for it to be some new system where actually **skills** and not crafting alone were governed by magazines (i.e. like the description of the third option says) ?

     

     

    I have been around since Alpha 9? This is the first time they have made such a huge shift in the game-play loop. It's also very concerning that this is supposed to be near the end of said alpha, and we are getting overhauls this late in development.

    1

    Poll - Which progression system did you prefer?

    in General Discussion

    Posted · Edited by Greymantle (see edit history)

    8 hours ago, meganoth said:

     

    Can you explain why it is backing off and not simply balancing that was done?

     

     

     

    I would say because they had a year and a half on this version. I would think the balance for the most part would already be done. Two days after release they are already backing off/making changes, that tells me they really didn't test this system out. It's like they tossed it out there for us to test and balance from that. What makes this bad is what if the new system doesn't work and needs to be revamped because no balance will make it work?

    Test, more testing, then some more. If the software company I worked for released a product in this state, they would be out of business fast.

     

    If they had made a lot of these changes early in development, I believe this game wouldn't even be close to as popular as it is now. This makes it easier for them to ignore feedback this late in the process, they already pocketed most of the money they will make from this game on the PC. Why I don't support early access games anymore.

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