Newb Armor should protect the player from status effects.

[GrumpyMcElbows]

Over the past few days, I've tried starting multiple saves that I ended up abandoning in the first few days because I received a long-lasting status effect that crippled early progression. I basically quit one save during the intro Buried Supplies quest because a Boe graced me with Fatigued on the very first hit of the game. Getting these debuffs is incredibly demoralizing, especially when primative armor has no critical resistance and you have basically zero resources to deal with them -- or you get a sprained arm or leg and can't deal with it at all. The easiest and most obvious solution is to place protections under the currently barely useful Newb Armor.

[InfiniteWarrior]

I had to abandon several saves when alpha testing the game for that reason as well. I imagine it is demoralizing, especially to new players. In fact, I nearly put the game down for good when I was new to it myself for a variety of reasons. I was thinking more of a time limit when starting a game that provides such protection for a limited period of time as the area you spawn in is protected from zombie attack while you do the prelims and get your bearings. If primitive armor provided protection from all status effects, though, I can imagine someone wearing primitive armor for the duration of their time playing the game.

[GrumpyMcElbows]

Wait, did I screw this up? I didn't mean primative armor. The effect you get when you start the game and lasts to level 6 or 7 or something. The effect that protected you from weather effects. Wasn't it called Newb Armor? It's just called XP Loss Prevention now. Well, whatever it's called, *that* should protect you from status effects also.

Edited September 16 by GrumpyMcElbows (see edit history)

[InfiniteWarrior]

2 hours ago, GrumpyMcElbows said:

Wait, did I screw this up?

No, you didn't. Haven't been around long enough to know protection from effects was once known as Newb Armor.  [EDIT] Whether level or time limit, I think it would be an awesome idea. I have to wonder how many have put it down for good because they thought that's the just the way it was. New players need some time to gather a few things, if not herbal antibiotics and pain killers, then honey, ntm learning what all that stuff does.

Edited September 16 by InfiniteWarrior (see edit history)

[Riamus]

I don't think this is really all that necessary, but wouldn't be opposed to it.  It teaches you to fight smart.  If you are going in swinging in the early game, you're going to get a lot of debuffs.  If you learn to fight without taking damage because you don't want those debuffs, you'll become a better player.

 

Now, keep in mind that most debuffs really don't matter that much and are easy to fix.  Fatigue is one of those.  Why would you restart because of that?  Finding green pills isn't usually that hard and it really doesn't impact your game that much.  Sure, you take more damage, but that isn't such a big deal.  If I get fatigue in the middle of a tier 5 POI and don't have the vitamins on me, I'm not going to even chance how I fight.  I'll just keep going and ignore the debuff.  It isn't really a serious debuff.  The only debuff I would ever consider restarting the game for is a broken leg in the first couple of days because without a vehicle (even a bike), a broken leg slows you down way too much.  One reason I push parkour quickly.

 

Either way, you get to level 5 very quickly, so any protection added to the XP protection you receive wouldn't last long, so I would be fine if they added it.  I think it is really only helpful for a new player, though.

Edited September 16 by Riamus (see edit history)

[zztong]

A configurable "New Player" protection measured in levels would be neat. Games for experienced players could set it to 0.

[GuardianReaper0]

13 hours ago, GrumpyMcElbows said:

Over the past few days, I've tried starting multiple saves that I ended up abandoning in the first few days because I received a long-lasting status effect that crippled early progression. I basically quit one save during the intro Buried Supplies quest because a Boe graced me with Fatigued on the very first hit of the game. Getting these debuffs is incredibly demoralizing, especially when primative armor has no critical resistance and you have basically zero resources to deal with them -- or you get a sprained arm or leg and can't deal with it at all. The easiest and most obvious solution is to place protections under the currently barely useful Newb Armor.

I disagree for a few reasons.

1. It teaches players how to deal with issues early on. There are plenty of ways to get hold of medical supplies, especially with trader missions being available now.

 

2. Squaring up with a zombie needs to result in injuries, otherwise you end up with the boring system of just using medical bandages because you lost hp. The same goes for fall damage or running your character completely out of stamina, exhausting them.

 

Personally, as far as exhaustion goes, I’ve seen some good suggestions about letting your character rest on a bed or bedroll to be able to speed up the healing of it. Something like that I could get behind, but preventing it all together, that’s going to be a hard no from me.

[Suxar]

14 hours ago, Riamus said:

The only debuff I would ever consider restarting the game for is a broken leg in the first couple of days because without a vehicle (even a bike), a broken leg slows you down way too much.

When I tested 1.0, I broke it on the second day. This is not a reason to restart the game.

[Roland]

Restarting because of exhaustion? Are vitamins really that rare? As an option it would be fine but hard pass on making it the default feature setting.

[InfiniteWarrior]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

Restarting because of exhaustion? Are vitamins really that rare? As an option it would be fine but hard pass on making it the default feature setting.

I scuttled a few saves when alpha testing the game, one because I put up with an infection for 6 in-game days that I could only manage with the rare herbal antibiotic sold by traders I had to spend hours actively seeking out so I'd have a chance at getting some from them. RNG just wasn't at all helpful in the honey department for the most part during that particular test run, so I can see new players getting so fed up, they just put the game down and never pick it back up again. (No idea how long it was until I realized honey could cure the infection in the first place when new to the game, which doesn't make a lot of sense, but okay.)

An option would be good, but is it really such a bother to have that status effect protection for the same amount of time as you have XP loss protection or maybe even less? If no status protection, then why should you have XP loss protection? If not one, then eliminate the other. Those who are saying it "teaches" you.... Well, I don't think so myself. What teaches you is learning the zombies are always moving forward, even when staggered, so hit and runs moving backward youself keeps you relative safe from getting hit. That sort of thing. Whereas breaking a leg and having RNG absolutely refuse to offer up a cast or a splint is quite a different story. I've had seriously bad RNG rolls in my alpha testing runs of this game.

There's a lot to learn about 7DTD. Veterans have already learned it, so I can see why they'd want an option instead, but if you get that option, then you should lose that early game XP protection.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, InfiniteWarrior said:

I scuttled a few saves when alpha testing the game, one because I put up with an infection for 6 in-game days that I could only manage with the rare herbal antibiotic sold by traders I had to spend hours actively seeking out so I'd have a chance at getting some from them. RNG just wasn't at all helpful in the honey department for the most part during that particular test run, so I can see new players getting so fed up, they just put the game down and never pick it back up again. (No idea how long it was until I realized honey could cure the infection in the first place when new to the game, which doesn't make a lot of sense, but okay.)

An option would be good, but is it really such a bother to have that status effect protection for the same amount of time as you have XP loss protection or maybe even less? If no status protection, then why should you have XP loss protection? If not one, then eliminate the other. Those who are saying it "teaches" you.... Well, I don't think so myself. What teaches you is learning the zombies are always moving forward, even when staggered, so hit and runs moving backward youself keeps you relative safe from getting hit. That sort of thing. Whereas breaking a leg and having RNG absolutely refuse to offer up a cast or a splint is quite a different story. I've had seriously bad RNG rolls in my alpha testing runs of this game.

There's a lot to learn about 7DTD. Veterans have already learned it, so I can see why they'd want an option instead, but if you get that option, then you should lose that early game XP protection.

I think most veterans wouldn't care about losing that XP protection.  Dying in the first 5 levels isn't something a veteran is likely to do. 

 

The thing you learn is to not go in swinging like you do in other games.  There will be consequences if you do.  You learn to be smart in how you fight if you don't want status effects. 

 

Broken arms or legs from fighting aren't common unless you get swarmed or if you don't fix a sprain.  Broken arms really didn't hurt much, especially if you are using a gun.  It is a broken leg that will be a pain if you don't have a vehicle.  But that is usually from falling rather than fighting.  Infections are really the only debuff that besides a broken leg that can be at all troublesome.  And that is just RNG.  The others aren't a big deal, especially fatigue.  The only other that might be partially troublesome is a concussion if you maxed out daring adventurer to get double rewards because it will lose you a point of intelligence and cost you the extra reward if you don't treat it first.  But medicines are easy to find, other than sometimes honey and antibiotics.

[Roland]

3 hours ago, InfiniteWarrior said:

I scuttled a few saves when alpha testing the game, one because I put up with an infection for 6 in-game days that I could only manage with the rare herbal antibiotic sold by traders I had to spend hours actively seeking out so I'd have a chance at getting some from them. RNG just wasn't at all helpful in the honey department for the most part during that particular test run, so I can see new players getting so fed up, they just put the game down and never pick it back up again. (No idea how long it was until I realized honey could cure the infection in the first place when new to the game, which doesn't make a lot of sense, but okay.)

An option would be good, but is it really such a bother to have that status effect protection for the same amount of time as you have XP loss protection or maybe even less? If no status protection, then why should you have XP loss protection? If not one, then eliminate the other. Those who are saying it "teaches" you.... Well, I don't think so myself. What teaches you is learning the zombies are always moving forward, even when staggered, so hit and runs moving backward youself keeps you relative safe from getting hit. That sort of thing. Whereas breaking a leg and having RNG absolutely refuse to offer up a cast or a splint is quite a different story. I've had seriously bad RNG rolls in my alpha testing runs of this game.

There's a lot to learn about 7DTD. Veterans have already learned it, so I can see why they'd want an option instead, but if you get that option, then you should lose that early game XP protection.

The beginning of the game is the most interesting to me. As a veteran player I appreciate the variety of starts that can alter how the first few days plays out. 
 

The newb protection should be disabled by default and only enabled if checked by a new player. Especially once weather survival is reintroduced I think that heat and cold should affect us from the very beginning. 
 

Having protections for weather, critical injuries, xp death penalties just work together to make every restart of the game play out exactly the same. Obviously, people who keep restarting until they get what they consider a good start are going to be the type of people who only ever want good starts. But I like a variety of experiences which is why I’m against any newb protection for anything except as an option that must be toggled on. 

[InfiniteWarrior]

1 minute ago, Roland said:

The newb protection should be disabled by default and only enabled if checked by a new player.

 

Agreed. Some current players might want to check it as well from what I gather. Not me, personally, but some.

[Roland]

Jason: Carl had his newb protection turned on. What a noob!

Carl: What?! No I didn’t!!! Jason used the creative menu to build his base! What a poser!

Jason: SHUTUP NEWB PROT! I legit mined everything!!!

 

 

[Suxar]

13 hours ago, Riamus said:

I think most veterans wouldn't care about losing that XP protection.  Dying in the first 5 levels isn't something a veteran is likely to do. 

 

I do the opposite. If I have serious problems in the first 5 levels, I usually die. There is no penalty to experience, so there is nothing terrible in death.