thatguyfromthequadcities Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I know there are plans for more crafting stations in the future (which I think makes sense), but I was curious, how is the Tanning Station going to be implemented? Typically a crafting station requires a few things: - A fuel source to simulate the precious resource of your time and focus - An input resource (raw materials) - A specialization item to shape the final product (stick/cooking pot/grill/beaker/molds) - An output resource (finished product) - Optional: an activation button or list of choices (cooking only) After doing some looking around online, it looks like in order to tan hides, you need to follow a lot of steps, use a variety of chemicals and techniques, and spend a great deal of time and effort to make a tanned hide. For this game, I think things will probably be simplified a bit, but I don't want to see the oversimplification that Skyrim had with a simple Tanning Rack that you used to instantly turn pelts into leather or leather into leather strips. I believe a good compromise would be: - A "fuel source" in the form a lye, a chemical which can be crafted from wooden logs - an input resource in the form of animal hides and raw pelts (pelts could be used to craft cold weather survival clothing) - A specialization item in the form of tools to either create leather or make raw pelts usable for crafting - An output box for the finished leather or pelts You put the tool into the specialization item slot depending on if you are simply making leather or want to preserve a pelt for future crafting. You than put the leather/pelt into the input resource slot and add the lye to the fuel slot. The chemical composition of the lye "fuels" the tanning process and the finished products appear in the output slot. Does that seem a reasonable compromise? How would you guys like to see tanning handled when more work stations are added? Do you think the Tanning Station needs to be gated behind a book or does it just need to be crafted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamplet Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The acid or Lye could possibly be acid from car batteries or urine from the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xamllew Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 Personally I'd love to see it get as technical as Terrafirmacraft where you first scrape the hide on a rack with a knife, then you prep a batch of limewater with flux (crushed stone) in a water barrel, let the hides soak in the acid for a while, that gives you prepared hides which you then dunk in a barrel of tannic acid which is made from logs left in a barrel of water, which produces raw leather. Of course that's not going to happen and we'll probably get something more like Skyrim's leather processing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resemblelife Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Personally I'd love to see it get as technical as Terrafirmacraft where you first scrape the hide on a rack with a knife, then you prep a batch of limewater with flux (crushed stone) in a water barrel, let the hides soak in the acid for a while, that gives you prepared hides which you then dunk in a barrel of tannic acid which is made from logs left in a barrel of water, which produces raw leather. Of course that's not going to happen and we'll probably get something more like Skyrim's leather processing. TerraFirmaCraft meets 7D2D would be amazing. TFC knocked it out of the park with their version of food decay, farming, resource gathering, metal working, weapon/tool construction and so many other aspects of survival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Haven and Hearth had a simple mechanic. Make a tanning tub. Fill it with water. Put treebark, and a dried hide. Wait a few days, you get leather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xamllew Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 TerraFirmaCraft meets 7D2D would be amazing. TFC knocked it out of the park with their version of food decay, farming, resource gathering, metal working, weapon/tool construction and so many other aspects of survival. Not a lot of survival games really delve that deep into that level of survival which is one reason it frustrates me to see TFP streamlining and simplifying some of what little processing there is in the game. I'm hoping modding really takes off eventually and we see some overhaul mods that aim to emphasize on the progression and crafting aspects of the game, I feel like 7DTD could be my dream game if they weren't trying to appeal to people who just want everything to be a one-step easy-bake oven sort of process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Don't worry Xami, we're here for you guys =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
resemblelife Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Don't worry Xami, we're here for you guys =) TFC mod for 7D2D? Sign me up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 TFC mod for 7D2D? Sign me up! In a sense, Deathwish resembles TFC a lot, and will become even more and more like it because I'm incorporating copper/bronze metallurgy, as well as the mold head mechanic, which dates back to version 2.0 of the mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombiemeat Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 When I read this topic, I keep picturing a tanning bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormchild Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Not a lot of survival games really delve that deep into that level of survival which is one reason it frustrates me to see TFP streamlining and simplifying some of what little processing there is in the game. I'm hoping modding really takes off eventually and we see some overhaul mods that aim to emphasize on the progression and crafting aspects of the game, I feel like 7DTD could be my dream game if they weren't trying to appeal to people who just want everything to be a one-step easy-bake oven sort of process. To each their own taste. If this game becomes a crafting simulator with too much details, and eventually just grinding for resources and endless crafting, then I'll go away. I don't want to spend all my time doing tamagochi for crops and grinding for x steps to craft stuff either. It's good that it is not instant (like today, it's indeed too simple for example), but I want to have a decent amount of my game time for raids, zombies killing and such. I would hate it if this game added too complex or too realistic simulation components. For me this is a game, I have limited playtime per day, and it also depends on my friend's availability. If that time has to be spend doing resource gathering only and complex crafting instead, and not enough raiding and tense horde-moments, it defeats the whole thing for me. the OP solution could suit me, although I am entirely fine with the Skyrim solution of just using a tanning rack wit hthe pelts and producing the leather. The timer duration could reflect the complexity of the task, instead of adding x resources to grind in addition. Plus, that also completely depends on how this is balanced vs the Hordes and the days because if you suddenly need twice the time to produce your leather or whatnot, it will impact your readiness and might create more frustration than fun. A bit like the Gore can be (at least at our level), that is all over the place and doesnt decay when you are away raiding. A too complex crafting system way would only work with lots of players in a clan with divided tasks (so people can dedicate and complement each other), it would ruin the balance in solo or smaller multi I think. And also shifts too much the focus on crafting versus raiding and combat. Also I read that books are temp until a skill tree is developped. I like this because we havent found the leather books nor concrete, and we are stuck at lower tech level and getting tramped on by hordes. So books will (I hope at least for the main tech levels) go away. There can always be some modding possibilities to make this more realistic for people who like it, just like in Skyrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pwnlord Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 TFP said they wanted to do chemistry soon, so I imagine that'll be a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ginc Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 I think 7D2D's current model for crafting stations is the right level of involvement: - Make a deployable workstation, either gated behind a skill/recipe or available from the start (forge, campfire) - Insert a crafting tool (forge mold, cooking container) - Insert raw material (meat, ore, water, etc) and fuel source (wood, coal, couches etc.) - Start crafting process, it poops out finished product over time From there, if you wanted to make crafting more involved/realistic/whatever, you can just subdivide a crafting process to use multiple workstations in succession (station 1 converts raw mats into refined mats, station 2 converts refined mats into finished product). 7D2D's crafting isn't very realistic because it essentially happens "in the background" while you're doing other things, but IMO this is an acceptable sacrifice to prevent players from getting bogged down entirely in detailed processes, especially in solo games. The game is trying to be a mix of genres and activities (crafting, exploration, scavenging, killing zombies, base defense, staying healthy). If any one thing takes up too much of a player's time and attention, it detracts from the rest of the game. If you want to add a bit more realism to the idea of crafting stations, put in NPCs that can operate the stations for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojimbo Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Here's the thing about "too much detail" for crafting leather: the game only has a few uses for leather, and nearly all of them are a one-shots. Think about it: armor, minibike seats, crossbows, couches... they're not things you're going to be crafting every single day ingame. Because of that, upping the costs of those items by making leather cost more to produce would not be game breakingly boring. Contrasted with Skyrim, where leather is cheap, plentiful, and used for everything, having a more involved process for turning hides into leather would be a time-sucking chore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zombiemeat Posted August 24, 2015 Share Posted August 24, 2015 Urinate in a bucket. Submerge the skin in the urine. Put it on a rack to dry. Tada, leather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatguyfromthequadcities Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Contrasted with Skyrim, where leather is cheap, plentiful, and used for everything, having a more involved process for turning hides into leather would be a time-sucking chore. I agree that a lot of what leather is used for currently in 7D2D is a "one shot" expenditure, but I would also like to see all of the crafting stations feel natural/intuitive when compared to one another, at least. I think ginc put it best when listing the "formula" of current crafting stations. In the future, when electricity is added, I believe "Watts/Jules" or some other consumable form of energy will be used much like "burn time" is presently used to power crafting stations. For leatherworking, I believe a chemical reaction could be used as a pseudo-fuel for powering the change of one resource into another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosenholz Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 The acid or Lye could possibly be acid from car batteries or urine from the dogs. You want to take piss out of dogs, eh? Not the baddest of ideas, necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosenholz Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 To each their own taste. --- SNIP --- Pretty much this ^ TFC is a great mod, I like many elements from it, but personally it is a little bit too much. When I want to play a moment I don't want it to feel too grindy, like scraping mold out out boxes and boxes of veggies. And rinse and repeat. But 7D could still be bit more complex than e.g. already mentioned Skyrim. Things like tanning could use extra tools and ingredients, even preparation stages and maybe it could even take a longer time than e.g. just half a minute per leather. Even several (in game) hours or even days if the crafting station will not halt after exiting the current play area. Because that would not mean grinding, it just preparation and waiting and finding right increments and tools, not click-click-click busywork. Then those MODs could fulfill the wildest dreams of those meticulous tinkerers who want to do every little details including cleaning and scrubbing those separate gun parts by hand -simulator Actually if there were option that you could some things by hand and crude tools but it would take more time and effort or skill, but after you could know how to build the right kind of crafting stations like finding all the bits for the chemistry set (more bits = would be more complicated recipes) you could automate certain things with them and they could be less laborious. So it would give a sense of accomplishment and reason to loot and explore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Contrasted with Skyrim, where leather is cheap, plentiful, and used for everything, having a more involved process for turning hides into leather would be a time-sucking chore. How is it time-sucking, when you simply leave hides to dry on racks and leave them to cure on acid and treebark? By the time you come back from scavenging, you could get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojimbo Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 How is it time-sucking, when you simply leave hides to dry on racks and leave them to cure on acid and treebark? By the time you come back from scavenging, you could get it. I was talking in terms of Skyrim. A more involved process for turning hides into leather in Skyrim would be the time suck. Not in 7DTD, which is what I meant by "Contrasted with Skyrim". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzoriel Posted August 26, 2015 Share Posted August 26, 2015 Oh, okay. I misunderstood your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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