Machinegun Nest (structure)

[GuardianReaper0]

Cost to build:

1x M60 (quality doesn’t matter)

1x steel storage box

30x steel

20x mechanical parts

20x springs

 

(Can be equipped with an Optic)

 

Structure stands 2 blocks tall, 1 wide, and 2 deep. This gives space for the emplacement and the player using it. 
 

Structure looks like a large crate with a belt of ammunition coming out the top and feeding into the m60 on top. 
 

Function: 

A stationary turret that the player can interact with to use the mounted MG. The damage is fairly high as a balance for being stationary. The ammo, rather than feeding out of a normal magazine, instead feeds out of the crate, allowing for very long duration of fire. 
 

Reason:

For base defenses, there are smg and shotgun auto turrets, but that still leaves .44 and 7.62 from being used in bulk. My group and I are currently running into the issue where we have so much ammo stacking up, we can’t even use it all. Horde nights are a great time to make a dent in it, but carrying a lot of 7.62 and trying to collect loot bags simultaneously simply isn’t worth it. 
 

So by making a stationary turret that a player operates it would help to solve a lot of issues all at once.

[Suxar]

13 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

but carrying a lot of 7.62 and trying to collect loot bags simultaneously simply isn’t worth it. 

Don't drag it. Who's stopping you from putting it in the box and taking it from there? Yes, and the loot can be collected after the night.

[GuardianReaper0]

6 hours ago, Suxar said:

Don't drag it. Who's stopping you from putting it in the box and taking it from there? Yes, and the loot can be collected after the night.

Actually no, the loot can’t be collected after the nights. We have it set to 2 hours/ day cycle. So if we don’t get to it quick enough, it despawns. Even after it’s been opened.

 

Also, it’s not too bad if you have the zombies set to jog and bare minimum numbers, but if you play with any extra difficulty, and with more than one player, it gets MUCH harder to do. 
 

Having an MG nest like this would be very helpful for groups and harder difficulties alike.

[Suxar]

38 minutes ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

Actually no, the loot can’t be collected after the nights. We have it set to 2 hours/ day cycle. So if we don’t get to it quick enough, it despawns. Even after it’s been opened.

 

There is a mod that increases the time while the loot lies. The only problem will be playing on a dedicated server that you do not administer.

 

The machine gun nest frankly smacks of some kind of cheat, since you don’t need to reload.

[meganoth]

21 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

Cost to build:

1x M60 (quality doesn’t matter)

1x steel storage box

30x steel

20x mechanical parts

20x springs

 

(Can be equipped with an Optic)

 

Structure stands 2 blocks tall, 1 wide, and 2 deep. This gives space for the emplacement and the player using it. 
 

Structure looks like a large crate with a belt of ammunition coming out the top and feeding into the m60 on top. 
 

Function: 

A stationary turret that the player can interact with to use the mounted MG. The damage is fairly high as a balance for being stationary. The ammo, rather than feeding out of a normal magazine, instead feeds out of the crate, allowing for very long duration of fire. 
 

Reason:

For base defenses, there are smg and shotgun auto turrets, but that still leaves .44 and 7.62 from being used in bulk. My group and I are currently running into the issue where we have so much ammo stacking up, we can’t even use it all. Horde nights are a great time to make a dent in it, but carrying a lot of 7.62 and trying to collect loot bags simultaneously simply isn’t worth it. 
 

So by making a stationary turret that a player operates it would help to solve a lot of issues all at once.

 

If you have too much ammo stacking up you could just set loot probability to 50 or 25%. Problem solved. 😁

 

[GuardianReaper0]

1 hour ago, Suxar said:

There is a mod that increases the time while the loot lies. The only problem will be playing on a dedicated server that you do not administer.

 

The machine gun nest frankly smacks of some kind of cheat, since you don’t need to reload.

You need to remember, this applies to console as well as of 1.0. We do not have access to “mods” like PC does.

[GuardianReaper0]

On 8/26/2024 at 10:42 AM, meganoth said:

 

If you have too much ammo stacking up you could just set loot probability to 50 or 25%. Problem solved. 😁

 

The problem here is that it would reduce ALL loot, not just ammo. Some things are still quite rare to get, so this isn’t really a good solution in my book.

 

Also, players should have the opportunity to use what they have, including a massive stockpile of ammo.

[Suxar]

15 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

Also, players should have the opportunity to use what they have, including a massive stockpile of ammo.

Go to a level 4 or higher infection mission with a machine gun, they will end.

[GuardianReaper0]

6 hours ago, Suxar said:

Go to a level 4 or higher infection mission with a machine gun, they will end.

We were running T6 infestations and having the same issue. The amount of 7.62 pulled from loot would be double what we used. EDIT: Especially when you have some of the group using rifles rather than MGs as main weapons.

 

Hence is why I make this suggestion.

Its still a “reward” basically, so leaving it behind feels wrong, but having a stationary gun like this to blaze enemies seems like a very valid usage for the extra.

Edited August 28 by GuardianReaper0 (see edit history)

[Riamus]

That just sounds OP.  We don't need something that lets you fire practically non-stop from a crate of ammo.  Just use whatever gun you want and shoot the zombies.  Use the current turrets if you want turrets.  You can reload them throughout the night if you have them somewhere within range and it doesn't take that long to do so.

[GuardianReaper0]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

That just sounds OP.  We don't need something that lets you fire practically non-stop from a crate of ammo.  Just use whatever gun you want and shoot the zombies.  Use the current turrets if you want turrets.  You can reload them throughout the night if you have them somewhere within range and it doesn't take that long to do so.

There currently are no turrets that make use of 7.62 or .44 magnum, which is part of the reason for this suggestion. 
 

Rather than making another boring auto turret, this suggestion adds in an element of controlling the weapon, but from a stationary position. 
 

As far as being too strong? I really don’t think so. The player has to control it, and it can be broken or overwhelmed just like any other block. Plus being stationary, you are still very susceptible to the spit of cops and such. 
I feel it would be more balanced than you initially believe.

[Riamus]

And what is to prevent just placing it into your defensive base, such as up on the roof, where you aren't going to get hit by much?  Cops are simple to deal with if you're watching for them.  You can kill them before they are in range to spit and their spit effect has a delay, so you can see them start and still kill them before they do.  Even a single hit that doesn't kill them usually stops them from spitting.  Repairing takes basically no time, both normal repair kit repairs from degradation, and repairs due to damage taken.  It really wouldn't be balanced.

 

I'm fine with auto turrets for the other ammo types and would support those (and probably have supported those in the past here).  But this really isn't a good option.  What you're really doing is replacing the machine gun with a stationary one that gives extra damage and can shoot basically non-stop, making it more powerful than using a machine gun.  Sure, it's stationary, so good only at your base unless you want to build them in a POI, which wouldn't really make sense.  Though you could easily do so outside the loot rooms and mow down everything that comes out without any challenge whatsoever since there's no reload.  So once again, it's OP compared to current options.

[GuardianReaper0]

23 minutes ago, Riamus said:

And what is to prevent just placing it into your defensive base, such as up on the roof, where you aren't going to get hit by much?  Cops are simple to deal with if you're watching for them.  You can kill them before they are in range to spit and their spit effect has a delay, so you can see them start and still kill them before they do.  Even a single hit that doesn't kill them usually stops them from spitting.  Repairing takes basically no time, both normal repair kit repairs from degradation, and repairs due to damage taken.  It really wouldn't be balanced.

 

I'm fine with auto turrets for the other ammo types and would support those (and probably have supported those in the past here).  But this really isn't a good option.  What you're really doing is replacing the machine gun with a stationary one that gives extra damage and can shoot basically non-stop, making it more powerful than using a machine gun.  Sure, it's stationary, so good only at your base unless you want to build them in a POI, which wouldn't really make sense.  Though you could easily do so outside the loot rooms and mow down everything that comes out without any challenge whatsoever since there's no reload.  So once again, it's OP compared to current options.

People already often build their bases so they can shoot from the roof, so what is the issue? The Zed will try to get at you all the same. In this regard I’ll make the counterpoint that being stationary and a limited angle of view would make it perfectly balanced for rooftop usage.

 

Yes, they would only be useful for base defense. Just like how current electrical traps and turrets are for base usage, not for POIs. I don’t see anyone carrying around dart traps, for use at a POI, do you? This is no different. 
 

In terms of damage, make it on par with a t1 or t2 m60 with no perks if you want. Its major positive effect should be the sustainable fire, not that its damage is super high. It’s a turret that could be utilized by anyone, not just machine gun users. 
Perhaps the machinegun skill of the player can apply when getting on it.

[Riamus]

2 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

People already often build their bases so they can shoot from the roof, so what is the issue? The Zed will try to get at you all the same. In this regard I’ll make the counterpoint that being stationary and a limited angle of view would make it perfectly balanced for rooftop usage.

 

Yes, they would only be useful for base defense. Just like how current electrical traps and turrets are for base usage, not for POIs. I don’t see anyone carrying around dart traps, for use at a POI, do you? This is no different. 
 

In terms of damage, make it on par with a t1 or t2 m60 with no perks if you want. Its major positive effect should be the sustainable fire, not that its damage is super high. It’s a turret that could be utilized by anyone, not just machine gun users. 
Perhaps the machinegun skill of the player can apply when getting on it.

The point about the roof was that you said being stationary offers a negative effect to offset the positive in that it can be damaged.  That was a counterpoint to that statement. 

 

As far as saying it was a base defense, I was agreeing with you. 

 

And damage is directly affected by ammo capacity.  If you don't have to reload, you quickly outpace damage of a weapon that has equal single shot damage but needs to reload.

[GuardianReaper0]

3 hours ago, Riamus said:

The point about the roof was that you said being stationary offers a negative effect to offset the positive in that it can be damaged.  That was a counterpoint to that statement. 

 

As far as saying it was a base defense, I was agreeing with you. 

 

And damage is directly affected by ammo capacity.  If you don't have to reload, you quickly outpace damage of a weapon that has equal single shot damage but needs to reload.

In terms of damage being effected by ammo capacity, I would disagree. It’s like comparing damage output of an AK vs a lever action. Same ammo type, far different mag sizes, far different damage.

 

Damage per bullet matters at least in my book, not just “DPS” effected by fire rate and mag size. 
 

Which is why in terms of damage, it’s balanced. Also, when it comes to mobility, it’s more than just about avoiding damage. Being able to move to line up a better angle is also part of it. 
 

With a stationary turret, your lines of sight could restrict you from hitting opportune shots that a normal weapon might be able to capitalize on. Meanwhile, if the player set up defenses well to funnel them into the line of sight of a stationary MG, it should be useful. 
 

Again, I think that overall it IS fairly balanced. At least more than just being able to line up a bunch of auto-turrets, which seems to be the current state of things!

[Suxar]

5 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

With a stationary turret, your lines of sight could restrict you from hitting opportune shots that a normal weapon might be able to capitalize on. Meanwhile, if the player set up defenses well to funnel them into the line of sight of a stationary MG, it should be useful. 

And in the end we get the good old KillBox. Which, by the way, doesn't even need electricity.

[GuardianReaper0]

6 hours ago, Suxar said:

And in the end we get the good old KillBox. Which, by the way, doesn't even need electricity.

Doesn’t need electricity, but still needs a player to actively operate it. Sounds like a fair trade off to me.

[Suxar]

20 minutes ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

Doesn’t need electricity, but still needs a player to actively operate it. Sounds like a fair trade off to me.

Night of the Blood Moon where you only need to press 1 button and do nothing. Nothing good.
The player here only needs to press a button.

[TWORDY]

On 8/29/2024 at 2:39 PM, Suxar said:

Night of the Blood Moon where you only need to press 1 button and do nothing. Nothing good.
The player here only needs to press a button.

 

A higher cost to repair the stationary gun + overheating might counterbalance its use. If You want stationary with a higher mag and lots of rounds shot then obviously there must be more downsides. 

 

On 8/25/2024 at 5:44 PM, GuardianReaper0 said:

Cost to build:

1x M60 (quality doesn’t matter)

1x steel storage box

30x steel

20x mechanical parts

20x springs

 

M60 requires steel and springs.

 

1xM60

1x Steel Storage Box

25x Oil

25x Mechanical Parts

50x Short Iron Pipes

150x Scrap Polymer (I am swimming in Polymer)

[GuardianReaper0]

6 hours ago, TWORDY said:

 

A higher cost to repair the stationary gun + overheating might counterbalance its use. If You want stationary with a higher mag and lots of rounds shot then obviously there must be more downsides. 

 

 

M60 requires steel and springs.

 

1xM60

1x Steel Storage Box

25x Oil

25x Mechanical Parts

50x Short Iron Pipes

150x Scrap Polymer (I am swimming in Polymer)

Maximum number of item types to craft something is 5, so probably not add polymer. Lol

 

A high cost to repair I would be fine with. 
Again though, I do think that the stationary part is the big drawback. In my experience during blood moons, enemies will rotate where they try to attack from throughout the night. It would only have 90 degrees approximately of view, making it something you would need to design around. 

[Suxar]

3 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

Again though, I do think that the stationary part is the big drawback. In my experience during blood moons, enemies will rotate where they try to attack from throughout the night. It would only have 90 degrees approximately of view, making it something you would need to design around. 

There is nothing to design here. We build a box with 1 entrance and a corridor of 5 cells. All zombies will walk along the corridor together. We take coffee in our left hand and start drinking, with our right hand we keep our sight on the corridor and press the button if we see movement. The main thing is that the hand does not go numb during the night.

[GuardianReaper0]

6 hours ago, Suxar said:

There is nothing to design here. We build a box with 1 entrance and a corridor of 5 cells. All zombies will walk along the corridor together. We take coffee in our left hand and start drinking, with our right hand we keep our sight on the corridor and press the button if we see movement. The main thing is that the hand does not go numb during the night.

1. Like I said, in my experience they rotate where they are coming from, often willing to go through a wall to get to you.

 

2. Demolition guys can mess that up fairly well.

 

3. it paves the way for them to add much more tanky enemies in the future.

4. Yes, if your sole focus is min-max efficiency, it has the potential to be OP, but the game is for players that want to enjoy it, not just say they have the strongest hoard base ever.

[Suxar]

2 minutes ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

1. Like I said, in my experience they rotate where they are coming from, often willing to go through a wall to get to you.

 

If they see a passage, they will go through it. From time to time, the logic of their actions changes, of course, but in general they are predictable.
The video is not mine, but you can watch it for variety.

 

[GuardianReaper0]

8 minutes ago, Suxar said:

If they see a passage, they will go through it. From time to time, the logic of their actions changes, of course, but in general they are predictable.
The video is not mine, but you can watch it for variety.

 

Do you remember what I said about min-max bases? this falls directly under that category. 
 

not everyone wants to play this way.