Skill system in A21 is practically the same as pure dice play - no planning, no intelligent gameplay possible

[CapnCookie]

26 minutes ago, Scyris said:

IMO they should be in: Working Stiff, Pass N Gas, Lab Equipment and Gun crates, broken workstations too of course. All of those crafting types need the work bench and forge etc as part of it, so it should be more widely available than it is considering most things NEED a workbench.

Here's a list of some of the places they're in:

• Quest Reward (obvious)
• Working Stiff Crate
• Working Stiff Truck
• Crack-a-Book Crate
• Crack-a-Book Shelves
• Mailboxes/Newspaper stands
• Broken Workbench
• Broken Forge
• Broken Cement Mixer
• Broken Chem Station
• Broken Dew Collector
• T3 Reinforced Chest
• T4 Hardened Chest
• T5 Hardened Chest
• Hidden Stash
• Construction Crate
• Air Drop

There are others, but I wish to not take up too much time looking through every single sub-group that they're located in just to find which ones are connected to other loot containers. These examples were just the most obvious from looking over the loot tables.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by CapnCookie (see edit history)

[Diragor]

20 hours ago, White-Gandalf said:

The Skill system in A21 works out as a pure dice game. Well, guys: I was below 10 when i came out of the age of having fun rolling dice. I switched to chess in those years in the last millennium.

In my first run, i am now in week 4. And all the Avatar has learned is how to make steel tools.

 

BUT: Without the dice puking out steel tool parts. Not at the trader. Not as quest rewards. Not as loot. Nothing. The Avatar is just far too low on level that those things could have a chance to pop up in the loot lists.

BUT 2: Without letting the Avatar learn the workbench skills. At the end of week 3 (imagine, yes?!), the dice rolls lastly gave him the opportunity to learn a FORGE !!!

 

A FORGE !!! At the end of week 3 !!!

You can't tell that your grandchildren at the campfire. It's just awful.
At least, i got a chance to buy a workbench from the trader in week 4. But i had to quest two days in a row just to get my fingers on that beauty!

So i'm now stuck with an Avatar having the ability to make hight level steel tools - IF he WOULD have the possibility to use that skill. But since he doesn't, i'm stuck with a completely mis-skilled guy. What he was granted by the dice, he is unable to use. What he needs direly he isn't granted by the dice.

 

I have watched some guy playing Skyrim "on dice" - with every decision, including perk development, being decided by dice roll. THAT is exactly how i'm feeling being forced to play 7 Days nowadays. In 7 Days we are back on the level of "Mensch ärgere Dich nicht" - where all you can do as player is somewhat strategically steer the dice control wheel a little and then hope for the best and live with the worst.

I don't put that on the plus side of the ideas of the funpimps.

==========================

Would there be a possibility to mitigate that catastrophic mis-skilling?

Yes, of course there is: You could, for example, make the dice rolls in line with what the Avatar DOES in the game. Instead of with what the Avatar FINDS - per pure dice rolls. So you would reduce the dice-rollingness of the gameplay from TWO mutually reinforcing Levels - as it is at the moment - to one level less. THAT at least would be a tiny little step in the right direction - you know: "having FUN" and such shenanigans.

If you correctly implement that principle, you land back at "learning by doing" - just randomized by dice rolls.

But the funpimps could have saved whole 5 Alphas with each completely redesigning the perk/Skill system. Just use your working time for USEFUL things like gameplay issues that lurk in the code since decades already.

That sounds awesome!! Finally some random fun

[RipClaw]

27 minutes ago, CapnCookie said:

There are others, but I wish to not take up too much time looking through every single sub-group that they're located in just to find which ones are connected to other loot containers. These examples were just the most obvious from looking over the loot tables.

Most of the loot containers you listed are found predominantly in commercial or industrial districts that are not available at all or only to a limited extent in small towns.

 

[CapnCookie]

15 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Most of the loot containers you listed are found predominantly in commercial or industrial districts that are not available at all or only to a limited extent in small towns.

 

A variety of crates, to include working stiff and crack-a-book, are randomly generated at the end of all POI's whether they're located in small or large towns. Mailboxes are also found distinctly in residential areas. Broken workstations can be found in garages or basements of residential POI's. Traders can also now be located anywhere on the map. 

Small towns offer slim resources in all areas of loot, not just specifically workstation magazines. That's why finding larger areas towns/cities generally yield better loot. Greater quantities of loot containers = greater chances of finding specific items. And with that, I even said that the list above is incomplete. 

Don't get me wrong, I have strongly advocated for a research system to coincide the magazine system so that players have some agency instead of relying on pure RNG (even if weighted by skill point allocation). I wouldn't say that any one magazine isn't contained within a proportional amount of containers compared to the others, though. That's false. 

Edited June 28, 2023 by CapnCookie (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

1 hour ago, Scyris said:

Sadly 7dtd may not be the game for you anymore, not trying to be a jerk here but its the truth, TFP doesn't seem to care how the player wants to play, its their way or @%$# off basically.

7 Days to die is still one of my favourite games. I bite the bullet, do quests and loot until I get what I need. I just don't enjoy this looting and exploring as much as building. It's like going to work. You do it because you have to. I just can't understand the intense emotions that people seem to feel when they open a loot container.

 

And if someone says that I should simply grab the items from the creative mode, he should grab his weapons and ammunition from the creative mode and then tell me whether he feels like he has achieved something or whether he feels like he is cheating.

 

Edited June 28, 2023 by RipClaw (see edit history)