Why does Intel Do This To Gamers

[bobrpggamer]

I used to have a Intel i7-3960X Processor Extreme Edition which had 40 PCIx lanes because it was an extreme edition. Now I go to look at top of the line i7 and i9s and it seems that the best CPU they offer has only 20 PCIx lanes max. So in general if you use a PCIx x16 slot you have to choose between 1 4x M.2 or a 4x PCIx 4x.

 

I have found only 1 (really) Socket 1700 motherboard that will allow a PCIx x1 slot and the M.2 CPU slot (unless this is a typo anyway). This is the one board that would allow a sound card - yes one PCIx x1, imagine the generosity of ASrock for this:

 

https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16813162086?Item=N82E16813162086

 

So another thing is that the use of SLI, which is really labeled SLI compatable, you have to choose PCIx slot 1 and PCIx slot 2 at 8x8 lane. These means that SLI will run the GPUs at half the speed of a single board. This is all fine and dandy because I do not need SLI, but what about a single sound card, that is only supported by 1 LGA 1700 board - that will allow you to use the 4 lanes left for CPU to do a M.2 at PCIx x4.

 

Whats the point of buying the best i9 if you cannot have more than 20 PCIx lanes. The last CPU I had was running:

 

1 1x Intel NIC

1 1x Hard Drive controller

1 1x Sound Card

 

Why do they do this to PC gamers that want a great GPU but also a few other things cards to add? What also is the point of even having 3 slots on a motherboard if you have to downgrade to use them? Who wants a SLI setup running at half speed?

Edited April 27, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history)

[Fox]

My knowledge on PCIe lanes are rusty at best as no one ever talks about it anymore, but as I understand it, AMD has 24 lanes (4 of which are reserved for the chipset and 4 more for NVME), Intel, as you mentioned, has 16+4 lanes. If my understanding is correct with AMD, then that would allow you 4 lanes (of 64GB/s per lane with the latest PCIe 5.0, 32GB/s per lane if PCIe 4.0) for sound card and network if that's what you need them for which is ridiculously overkill for something like that.

 

And SLI is still dead.

 

Also, PCIe 5.0 can handle 64GB/s unidirectional as opposed to your ancient PCIe 2.0 with 500MB/s. So it's quite the improvement in performance I'd say. We may have less lanes to work with, but each of those lanes are far more capable than they used to be, so bottlenecks aren't likely to happen when it comes to lane sharing or whatever.

 

If you're really hung up on getting more lanes, then get a server CPU, like Threadripper with 128 PCIe 4.0 lanes or EPIC with I think up to 160 lanes and just suffer in gaming performance as games (and a lot of apps) don't benefit from how many total cores you have.

 

Speaking of games... what does any of this have to do with 7D2d?

 

Oh, almost forgot...

mic drop

Edited April 27, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[bobrpggamer]

1 hour ago, Fox said:

My knowledge on PCIe lanes are rusty at best as no one ever talks about it anymore, but as I understand it, AMD has 24 lanes (4 of which are reserved for the chipset and 4 more for NVME), Intel, as you mentioned, has 16+4 lanes. If my understanding is correct with AMD, then that would allow you 4 lanes (of 64GB/s per lane with the latest PCIe 5.0, 32GB/s per lane if PCIe 4.0) for sound card and network if that's what you need them for which is ridiculously overkill for something like that.

 

And SLI is still dead.

 

Also, PCIe 5.0 can handle 64GB/s unidirectional as opposed to your ancient PCIe 2.0 with 500MB/s. So it's quite the improvement in performance I'd say. We may have less lanes to work with, but each of those lanes are far more capable than they used to be, so bottlenecks aren't likely to happen when it comes to lane sharing or whatever.

 

If you're really hung up on getting more lanes, then get a server CPU, like Threadripper with 128 lanes or EPIC with I think up to 160 lanes.

I have not used the 2011 CPU for over 5 years, I was talking about my Z390 1151 (300 Series) with a 9700k and a GTX 1080 and then 3 extra PCIx x1 cards.

 

I understand what you mean about bandwidth, I forgot to take the bandwidth of the PCIx 5.0 and even the PCIx 4 being that much higher than PCIx 3. That's not what I was getting at though.

 

I have seen some motherboards stating Crossfire / SLI comparable listed on their ads, so they must not think SLI is dead, but yeah it probably is to those who bought GPUs that do not support 2 cards. Even still if you want a card in

 

I would just like a z790 with one PCIx x1 for my sound card without having any other motherboard features being penalized. I cannot stand the onboard audio I was getting on my GIGABYTE Z390 AORUS PRO LGA 1151 (300 Series). I am still checking the the motherboards and I am OK with having the 1 PCIx 4.0 M.2 VIA CPU being traded for at least 1 PCIx x1 slot. I do not need 4 M.2s of course, but so far I have yet to find one other than the ASrock mentioned above.

 

The MSI godlike has the 2 PCIx 5.0 at 8x8, I understand that the bandwidth is much higher than the PCIx 4.0, but it still feels like cheating you out of the specs, in that they say they have "2 PCIx 5.0 slots", when they should mention that the cards only run at 8x8 which may or may not be on NewEggs website but it is stated in the downloadable manual.

 

I love the Threadripper Pro. I have dreamed or running a file-server with 2, 16x PCIx SAS 8 port controller cards and a couple of NIC cards with 2 SFP+ on them, but that is just a dream. I cannot even think of getting a decent system up until about September.

Edited April 27, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history)

[Fox]

Have you looked at AMD boards yet? As I mentioned, they have 4 more lanes than Intel and their CPUs perform just as well if not better, especially with Intel's insane heat issues.

 

Last generation of GPUs that supported SLI was RTX 20xx series. There's no question about it... SLI is currently dead. That's not to say it won't make a comeback someday, but for now, there's no reason to even think about it anymore. Motherboards still advertise it and support it as fluff to make the board look like it's packed with features. Just like how there's still a lot of PSUs out there that still have a floppy drive power adapter which literally no one uses anymore.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[bobrpggamer]

14 minutes ago, Fox said:

Have you looked at AMD boards yet? As I mentioned, they have 4 more lanes than Intel and their CPUs perform just as well if not better than Intel now, especially with Intel's insane heat issues.

Yeah I was looking at the AMD Ryzen 9 7900X. I just like the Intel Core i7-13700K so much. I will check out the AM5 motherboards again, I also do not like the idea of having to put a collar around the Socket 1700, which maybe a V2 or Series 2 or something set of Socket 1700 motherboards will fix that eventually. I am just so paranoid of buying parts and having to RMA some or most or whatever, and the collar thing seems an unnecessary complication for a motherboard. But I really like Intel CPUs since the Core 2 Duo.

Edited April 27, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history)

[Fox]

I agree with the collar thing. Even though it's a minor hindrance, it's a dumb issue that never should have existed. This is one of the reasons why I always avoid 1st gen stuff which this kind of is since this is AMDs first time using an LGA socket (which I also kind of hate, but whatever). The previous gen Ryzen is still plenty powerful though with PCIe 4.0 lanes and stuff, or if you're patient, you can wait for AMD to iron out that socket / collar issue.

 

I just remembered that Intel has the exact same corrector / collar plate issue as AMD. So realistically, they both have the same issue, but Intel has the added heat issue.

Edited April 27, 2023 by Fox (see edit history)

[bobrpggamer]

Well if I cannot get a revision update by the end of the year my patients will be gone and I will more than likely get the ASrock LGA 1700 motherboard. I almost like the MSI PRO PRO X670-P AM5 Socket motherboard, but if I were to build around a motherboard I would pick the ASrock.

 

The ASrock has 8 SATA ports and 4 M.2 and at least one PCIx1 slot for my sound card.

 

Thank you for the advice.

Edited April 27, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history)

[bobrpggamer]

Looks like the next series of sockets for Intel will be the new LGA 1851, which I may just wait for.  I am sure they will fix the sockets by then, I would think anyway.

[Fox]

They're changing their socket again? What a surprise.

[bobrpggamer]

33 minutes ago, Fox said:

They're changing their socket again? What a surprise.

Well one source says yes and another says no. I should have checked it more first, but anyway the source that is newer say that instead of a new 14th gen CPU, they will refresh the the 13th Gen. Hopefully they will add a new chipset, I do not know how, when or why they change a chipset, but this may get motherboard manufacturers to fix the socket problem and hopefully have more useful features. like more chipset based expansion slots. They may make an extreme edition for about about $1000.00 like they used to just add some more PCI express lanes and get suckers like me will buy into it. I am not going to pay over $400.00 - unless I win the lottery - for a CPU and the Intel Core i7-13700K is fine by me.

 

If you wonder why I am getting the K and not the cheaper KS, it is due to me being paranoid that the RTX 470ti I have now is defective and I need to RMA it. If I have the integrated GPU I can test all the other hardware like motherboard, CPU and RAM in the 30 days I have for RMAing the other parts. Thing is I may get a DOA motherboard and get another and then find out the CPU and RAM is also defective.

 

Basically I am using the "expect the worst hope for the best" mode of thinking religiously.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

SLI is clearly dead for gaming. None of the 40 Series cards from Nvidia has the NV-Link anymore. You literally can´t connect them anymore. If you want more than one GPU you gotta go A100, Quadro and such. But that does cost a ton.

Edited April 27, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[bobrpggamer]

11 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

SLI is clearly dead for gaming. None of the 40 Series cards from Nvidia has the NV-Link anymore. You literally can´t connect them anymore. If you want more than one GPU you gotta go A100, Quadro and such. But that does cost a ton.

With the LGA 1700 I could not even imagine that a SLI setup would make any sense anyway.

[bobrpggamer]

A thing of the past thanks to all new gamers, streamers and/or something I may not be understanding:

 

https://www.sabrepc.com/blog/Computer-Hardware/6-Ways-to-Utilize-Extra-PCIe-Slots

 

I cannot be the only one that uses a sound card, network cards or a controller cards. Maybe I am.

Edited April 27, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history)