[Things I Hope get fixed in A20.4/A21. List yours, Bugs, Wishes etc.]

Here is a list of things I hope get fixed in A20.4 or A21. Preferably A20.4. Just things I've personally noticed, There is probably many more issues, it is Alpha after all.

 

1: Zombies attacking with 0 animation during their reeling/knockback/pain animation. You just get hit and the animation plays after the pain animation, when if it was working right they should not be able to attack at all during said animation.

 

2: Zombie Hit Boxes: The Fat zombies are the major offenders here, shoot a Fat zombie in the middle of the face? counts as a body shot somehow. Gotta aim for the top of the head.

 

3: Vehicles Disappearing... Yep the bug that took 2-3 alpha's to finally squish has reared its ugly head again. Make sure to pickup vehicles before you stop playing even in single player if you don't do this already.

 

4: Crops not growing near chunk borders, this is a new thing in A20, never did this in A19, but crops don't seem to wanna grow if they are near a chunk border. Its REALLY annoying as you have to turn on debug mode so you can see chunk id's (hit F1 type dm, hit enter, then hit F8 twice) Also annoying having half my farm not growing because it crosses a chunk border.

 

5: Perfomance issues, especially in cities. There are various ways to tackle this, one way I've though of was to have the Structural intergrity system do nothing unless a block is being destroyed, as each time you walk on a new block it checks the SI down to bedrock just eating cpu cycles for no real good reason. You notice this in sky scrapers, even when you cannot see outside of it, higher up you go worse performance gets partially due to the SI checks. Could also make it check within 5 blocks below the player, this would also help with this. There are other things also factoring into performance issues, but I figure the SI checks is a big one with how often they seem to run.

 

Anyone else got anything they'd like to add?

 

 

[Did The Big New Church POI / Do Silencers Do Anything?]

Silencers lower how far sound travels, and also lowers the heat generated by a shot by a significant amount (40-50% less heat per shot). I'd reccomend you put one on every gun, just for the lower heat per shot it gives.

[Does anybody craft guns, or T3 melee weapons?]

I don't craft any gear usually in Vanilla, I buy what I need off traders, Not a big fan how crafting higher tier stuff needs more and more mats. About the only stuff I may craft early is some iron tools. a Primitive bow and a bone knife. I mostly craft consumable items like repair kits, ammo, medical stuff etc. Rest of gear I generally just find.

[So I decided to track Sleeper volumes in Poi's and how many are ambushes.]

On 1/31/2022 at 4:28 PM, Roland said:

 

Can we see the code on that? I really doubt that 11 of them are coded as ambush volumes. Just because you wake them up does not mean they are ambush volumes. It means you failed your stealth check. But show me in the code that 11 out of those 12 volumes are flagged as ambushes and I'll believe you and join you in criticizing that design. Otherwise, you have to destroy light sources and increase your perks to have a good chance at not waking zombies up. It is much harder now in A20 but I know that the intended design was to make almost all volumes do stealth checks and only a very few being auto aggro ambush rooms.

 

That being said, I have seen a lot more rooms in which zombies are spawning right before my eyes. I step in and there is nothing and I back up and then step forward again and they spawn often in places I can see so I think there is a bug going on with it but intentional design where all the volumes in any one POI are designated as ambush volumes is something I doubt highly and am not going to believe it just based on the fact that they woke up when you walked into the room.

 

Considering I was stealth the entire time? and I often destroy the pile of garbage thats always behind a door in the path your meant to walk. All I've noticed is that in all the new A20 poi's almost every sleeper volume is a ambush almost every single one, doesn't matter how quiet you are. Before in A19 you could enter the ambush volume in a different way and not trigger it, however in A20 a lot of these sleeper volumes do not spawn the zombies at all unless you step on the ambush trigger, which means when your on a clear quest, you cannot finish it, as the volume does not spawn UNLESS you step on the block that causes the ambush. Its TFP being TFP and forcing you to play in a certain way. I miss back in a16.4 when the player had choice, what weapon you used determined how high you up perks for it, you could stealth or go in guns blazing.

 

The stat system was the dumbest thing TFP has done to the game by far. Their excuse was to avoid "level gate" However, that was ONE level gate, now we have 5 gates instead of one. SO they made the problem WORSE and not better. Not to mention some stats are just worth more than others, str/int being the big 2, while the rest especially in A20 are kinda useless, especially Agi since stealth is a near non-option, which renders several agility perks near useless and a waste of skill points. This is not directly related to the stealth thing but it sort of is, as the way it is in A20 it makes Agility even less worth investing in as many of its perks are completly negated due to the ambush volumes being so prevalient.

[So I decided to track Sleeper volumes in Poi's and how many are ambushes.]

On 2/2/2022 at 9:26 PM, theFlu said:

I've been messing around in a few POIs, warehouse_06 turned out to be a good spot to test out an attack volume.

tppoi brings you to the front door, the volume of interest is the small break room in the opposite corner, the first zeds in the POI.

 

The zeds in that room spawn in when I walk across the yellow line outside.

 

They will agro 100% of the time when I sneak up the one block staircase towards their break room. Not even stealth level of 1 in the meter allows me to avoid agro. The zeds are showing light at about 3.3 at that point in the debug info.
Once agroed, they sprint at me at full speed. With the task ApproachAndAttackTarget

 

First I noticed I can drop their agro by doing a loop outside, leading them out, running a circle around them and then running back inside, crouching once back up in front of the break room. Takes less than 10 seconds, nowhere near a minute at least. Any faffing about can make them not drop agro, but the agro drop is quite repeatable. Can't say it isn't abusing line of sight, it probably is; but the 90 sec timer doesn't have time to count down.

 

Then I just did a loop in the parking lot with both zeds coming in agroed, was able to drop agro from both on the flat parking lot 3/3 tries. It's quite a dance, but perfectly repeatable. No LoS abuse there.

 

Additional info: A20.1 b6, navezgane, no relevant skills or gear, free use of sleeperreset and killall -commands. I haven't tested resetting the POI, changing the world or the save, so if any of those effect the spawns/mechanics/other_rng, I won't know.

For my opinion of it... it feels a bit bad. They'll come at you regardless of your stealth display being at 1, and the way to avoid getting hit is a silly dance routine on a parking lot. I don't want the stealth gameplay to be popping sleepyheads, but this specific version is rather the opposite. The sleepyheads are popping you just for existing.

 

EDIT_1: I did take out a light source or two at the entrance area, at least one above the door; so if one can't get to stealth 1 at the stairs, that might be the reason.

 

Yeah the problem is less the ambush and the fact they immedatly know where you are no matter what you do. If they woke up and wandered around like outdoor spawns that haven't seen you yet, so they don't rush you and so you can get sneak attacks on them i'd not mind. But the fact they rush you no matter what is the problem. They basically know your there, and lock on/chase you right on activate.

[So I decided to track Sleeper volumes in Poi's and how many are ambushes.]

1 hour ago, Ornias said:

Yep I have always played stealth and light armor. This alpha I went full strength, heavy armor and clubs. I clear 2-3 times faster with minimal problems. I am assuming they will swing the pendulum back some in the future. 

 

yeah stealth has always cleared slower, but also used less ammo. that was its balance factor. in A20 there is no point to stealth anymore, you might as well go in guns blazing cuz almost every sleeper volume is a ambush with gpsing zombies anyway, so staying quiet is pretty much useless now in A20.

[So I decided to track Sleeper volumes in Poi's and how many are ambushes.]

So I am going to list some of these as I come across them, maybe you fine people can help? there is a serious problem in a20 with almost every sleeper volume being a ambush of GPSing zombies, making stealth completly useless, and generally just being annoying as it shoehorns you into playing a certain way as the devs have removed the players choice from it.

 

Resturaunt_02

Sleeper Volumes:  12

Amount of Volumes that were ambushes: 11.

Thats right all but one of the sleeper volumes in this poi are ambushes with GPSing zombies that immedatly know your location the second you walk into the room, often they won't even spawn till you trigger it, which means no option to use stealth period other than that 1 volume with a single zombie dog where it actually spawns before you enter the room.

 

Office_03 (I think it was 03)

Another Poi where every single sleeper volume is a ambush, including one in the loot room, where a zombie literally spawns right beside you on the right once you walk in, allowing it a free hit on you no mnatter how fast you are. Also has multiple volumes with zombies falling from the cieling, or coming out of the walls which is just stupid, and looks silly as hell, its also @%$#-poor game design as well. Once in a while is fine, but ambushes and stuff like cieling dropping zombies should be much rarer than they are.

 

I like to play stealth, but the way A20 is thats pretty much a non option with most sleeper volumes in any poi being a ambush where they somehow immedatly know where you are the second you enter it. Many of these won't spawn the zombies till you trigger the ambush either, so you can't even snipe them from outside the room if you know about it ahead of time.

[The Great Ammo Nerf in Alpha 20.1 b5]

On 1/28/2022 at 1:48 PM, Raindear Games said:

I give 20.1 experimental b5 a huge thumbs up. No glitches. No funny business. The games finally works like it's supposed to if you do a fresh install. NOT ONE GLITCH for me.

BUT Ammo Nerf!

I understand that to fully experience this, one must wipe all worlds and playthroughs and start over, but I am still shocked that so few have discussed the effect this has on the first few weeks (and longer) of gameplay. If you don't cheat (as some do), then this is a game changer, and makes crafting your own ammo and gunpowder all the more imperative asap; along with melee/brawl/archery only battling. Youtubers have yet to catch up with this, either.

The nerf is real, folks. Is it going to be reversed? If not, then some time in the near future many streamer tears will be falling if they have to start over with a fresh install (especially if b5 goes stable). Until then, I guess no one is going to say boo about it. It's not that you won't find bullets. You just won't find anywhere near as much as you did. Instead of 50, you get 10. Instead of stacks, you get trickles.

It's like a really big elephant in the room, but it hasn't woken up yet. For me, I'm good. I'm used to it. Many are not. But they will be! (unless it gets reversed).

 

 

Git Gud and learn to use melee and archery. Archery especially got buffed. If your using bullets on anything below a pack of ferals coming at you, your wasting ammo. There is NO reason to be using guns early game in 7dtd, even on ferals, if you have 1-2 chasing you, you can just archery/melee them down easly. Its a player skill issue, not a game issue.

On 1/28/2022 at 4:05 PM, Kyonshi said:

Thank you for the nerf, Pimps! I love the ammo rebalance because even if play at 100% Loot, I'm not swimming in ammo like in previous alphas. I don't know how the hell people play to be submerged in bullets, but there's something they don't tell us, it just doesn't make sense. The ammo nerf for quest rewards was the first step and I'm glad I don't find 75 of them every time I turn around the corner.

 

Its easy they use archery or melee, unless you have like 3+ ferals chasing you there is really no reason to use bullets at all. In Vanilla A20.1 I have tons of ammo as I never have a need to use it. Not till I get sleeper volumes with 3+ ferals running at me every volume, which will happen as 90% of sleeper volumes are ambushes with GPSing zombies these days, which is the dumbest choice I seen tfp make, or one of them.

[Stuff I like in A20.1 and Stuff I don't like.]

Love the RWG, its nice seeing cities that look like well cities. Graphics got a nice update as well. Pipe weapons. Performance at least for me seems to be better. Love the trader changes in A20 as well.

 

Stuff I don't like.

 

Stealth being made completly useless, I'm sorry but ambushes and zombies coming of the close and cieling every single sleeper volume is just stupid. Once in a while would be fine but its far to often. IMO when the ambushes are triggered the zombies should NOT know where you are already they should just wander around the room. Early game these ambushes aren't that bad, mid/late game with ferals and radiated zombies they get extremly annoying as now you have 4+ ferals running at you in a small room that droped from the cieling.

TL:DR get rid of most of the stupid ambush sleeper volumes as some poi's are full of nothing BUT these and its tiring, they are not fun or engaging they are just an annoyance. Stealth is also useless as zombies seem super sensitive to the slighest sounds. I walk on a wood block and zombies 30+ blocks away somehow hear it. Also stop with the sleeper positioning to always be behind blocks so you cannot use sneak attacks on them, it looks stupid for one thing, as they are too well positioned for zombies, and it hurts stealth builds.

 

The zombies GPSing to poi's the player has entered also needs to be removed. Its extremly annoying to have to at times kill more zombies that wander in from outside than are in the actual poi. Case you don't know since A17 TPF put in a AI thing where second the player walks into a POI every spawned zombie in X distance will start to walk towards that poi, doesn't matter how quiet you are, or how good stealth is. You can test this, go into a enclosed room, where stealth is 1, use a kill all command, then advanced time so natural respawns happen and watch as they all start walking to the poi your in.

 

Like what type of a game is TFP going for here? As it used to allow player choice in builds, and now currently it really doesn't, you pretty much have to go in guns blazing due to how useless stealth has become. Do they want a more arcade like experience? is thats what they are aiming for? or do they want more of a survival game experience like the game USED to have. I still can't see a clear vision they have yet, which is sort of sad when its been in dev for close or even more than 10 years now. Most devs have a clear vision and plan before they even start to make the game, while TFP here seems like they just decide on things on the fly.

 

 

 

[Thank you for all the paint! (PSA for those who haven't discovered cheap paint crafting yet)]

Well paint being made in a chem lab did kinda make sense, but it didn't make sense that there wasn't a maybe less efficent recipe anywhere else that gets less but can be used earlier. Then again, other than that jacket with the move speed bonus, Paint is purely mainly for deco purposes so making it easy to get as early as the camp fire, is nice.

[Please stop trying to tell us how to play]

On 1/2/2022 at 9:03 AM, meganoth said:

 

AHHHH, YOU SUMMONED ME!

 

Too bad that the developers want to make the game they themselves want to play. Too bad that they have to decide on exactly one game that is vanilla, not a hundred, and leave the hundred games to modders. They are as stubborn as you, but they own the game and you just want to get your perfect game without programming it yourself.

I don't like zombies giving XP as you do but I know I won't get my perfect game if I don't mod myself. And I know that I might not even know exactly what game I really want, fun is a very ephemeral thing. So I won't rail against decisions where I clearly see the developers have made up their mind. Obviously me having still fun with the vanilla game means I can live with that. I'm sure there are a lot of players who can't but this game can't be the perfect game for everyone.

 

They really look at how games are played and adjust things when they see some blocks being too powerful as zombie shields for example. This is how beta balancing for other games work as well. Those beta players are not getting invited for their fun as you perfectly know, they are there as guinee pigs doing extended balancing testing. And that goes double for us alpha players.

 

To the original poster @Desmondbratcat:

Now this "let me play how I want to play" style is commonly know as a sandbox. Probably minecraft is a relatively pure sandbox, 7D2D is not. It has big elements of survival and RPG in it and both these elements demand balance for your game play options and what you get from what effort.

 

This is best illustrated by underground building. If zombies have no way at all to reach you then there is a balancing problem in the game, it would work as a sandbox, but not as an RPG or survival game. Since the developers want an RPG and a survival game this will not change, simple as that.

 

In reality you can just reduce block damage on zombies to the lowest available value or turn off zombies at horde night and at other times (and turn them on again if you want to smack some) without even mods and be safe if you build sufficiently deep, i.e. on rock bottom. Do either that, look for a fitting mod, or yes, look for a game that says it is just a sandbox.

 

 

I wish the devs wouldn't be making a game they want to play in this case because its ruining it. Now do get me wrong here I am all for this usually as usually the devs make something nice, but in 7dtd its been nothing but a steady downhill spiral since after a16. A16.4's skill system was nearly perfect it just needed some tweaks, like craft quality being removed from the action skill, and instead changed to how it works in A17. Which with learn as you do levels 1, 20, 40, 60 and then 80 unlocks a perk level which gives damage bonuses etc and also up the qual yuou can craft. It was literally all A16.4's skill system needed to be fixed. Instead, we got a complete redo nobody wanted and that many people don't even like.

 

Now we have A20, stealth has pretty much been completly killed with most of the sleeper volumes just instantly locking onto you second you walk in the room no matter how quiet you are. Now I am aware I can bash thru the wall and go in a diff way to dodge the trigger block, but this is even more lore breaking than there being a auto-aggro trigger block, I mean banging on the walls seems like the LAST thing you'd wanna do in a possibly zombie infested location. Whats even worse, is how every zombie just about is perfectly positioned to avoid sneak attacks/first strikes from outside the room.  Stealth DOES work outdoors, but the main place you'd want to be using it is inside a poi not when your out in the open and can easly get away from anything or have distance. Stealth was the "Slow but safe" approach to looting, its much slower than just going in shooting/bashing/stabbing, and it also severely limits what weapons you can use since many are too noisy to be used for this purpose.

 

Now to mention the poi's where they come out of the cieling and such, No other game really does this, and when they do its a very rare thing not a almost every single poi you into thing like it is in 7dtd, Office_04 is a prime example about how to design a poi that makes no sense. Literally every sleeper volume aggros second you walk into the room, almost every volume has 1-3 zombies that drop from the cieling. The worse though is when you go into the loot room, a zombie literally spawns to the right of you basically hugging you the second you walk in, you cannot avoid that cheapshot there. As it doesn't spawn till the volume triggers which isin't until you actually walk into the room. It spawns in the very next block beside your char. Usually in a new poi I walk in the door a block or 2, then walk back out to see what aggros from where, but that did not work here I still got a unavoidable cheapshot out of thin air.

 

The dungeon style poi's when I first heard about these I thought "cool, might be a neat if once in a while there are these." I was not expecting almost EVERY single poi to be one of these, it makes no sense what so ever. I mean the designs are nice don't get me wrong. but like many things in 7dtd just feels completly out of place for the type of game it is. I mean if people could barricade them selves up that well, how did they all die so easly? some of those houses are more secure than a damn bank is.

 

I will say this though the graphical look of the game is above and beyond what I ever thought it would be in a good way, but I think its time to tone down working on graphics and start working on gameplay issues and such instead, which the game has a alarming amount of issues in that section.

9 hours ago, Sydious said:

"They want a base that is 100% safe from harm" and yet they can not do that (to my knowledge), but they used to be able to if they so wished.  Is that not the very definition of OP's statement.  

What anyone thinks should or should not be allowed, for what ever reason, is not an argument to a factual statement.

 

I used to make underground bases just cuz the Si system seemed much more lenient down there. Was much easier to dig a hole for a early base than actually build something. I mean you still can, they just can now dig down to you, so its not 100% safe anymore.

[Loving A20 except the way loot is COMPLETELY BROKEN]

11 minutes ago, nostalginator said:

If you're not running bears/pumas/all canines over with your motorcycle, hitting them a few times with a burning-shaft equipped baseball bat (at least), then following up with a couple stabs for bleeding damage also while they're still stunned, then I guess you just suck at the game.  Using bullets on animals?  Pffffft.

(I don't actually believe using bullets on animals is a waste, but this is how you're coming across.  Let people play how they play without "you just suck at the game" being part of your criticism, okay?)

I agree that loot was too easy in A19 but the opposite extreme is not making me have a good time, and I still think the fact that you can loot T6 items but not craft them is backwards.

 

I actually used to do that with my vehicles etc, but it was quite inefficent, so I went back to just unloading on them with a gun. It does the job much faster.

[Loving A20 except the way loot is COMPLETELY BROKEN]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:34 AM, meganoth said:

Or you could jiust accept that the game throws random difficulties at you. Not having a chem station is severe blow to your ammo production, but you can buy ammo and blackpowder in adequate quantities, you can manage and that will be a unique playthrough.

 

But not getting the cheesecake buff leading to a rage quit?? There are worse things that can happen.

 

 

Not like you even have to make ammo with how common it is, unless you just suck at the game and have to use a gun for everything. my current game i've only used guns to kill bears or direwolves, no need to use guns on ferals, I just club em. I got the cement mixer schematic real early this game but couldn't for the life of me find the workbench, game threw me a bone though, when I ranked up from t2 to t3 a workbench was one of the choices, so you bet I took it. There are certain things in 7dtd you buy as soon as you see them: workbench, chem lab to name 2. If I don't have a chem lab and one is for sale, I will do anything I can to get my hands on it. I play with no int in my games, so I am at the mercy of rngesus for what recipes I find. I just get 1 point in adv engineering which can be gotten with base intel so I can get a forge up early. Vehicle parts especially motocycle ones I also will buy if I have the dukes even if it drains me to 0.

 

I actually love the loot in A20, its added some needed difficulty to the game that it lacked in A19. Was far FAR to easy to get everything in A19. I like the new challenge with loot.

[Early game difficulty]

1 minute ago, warmer said:

ya know I didnt have a single night attack till day 7 and I am pretty sure that is because I never use torches or candles at night. Kinda weird you got attacked at night day one. That almost never happens to me. Must be something specific you are doing to alert them.

 

There is a Day 2 night vulture/wolf mini wandering horde that seemed pretty consistant in terms of showing up on day 2 at night. Learned that my first game in A20 exp and now I prepare for it.

[Early game difficulty]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:25 AM, Onarr said:

Ok so I was looking forward to playing alpha 20 but first two times I started a new game I just rage quited. First time quest send me into T1 POI that ends with you jumping down into a trap room where you have no chance of surviving - 3 zombies and all i had for this first house was a club and a bow. Pretty @%$#ty early game design.

Second rage quit was encountering wolf in first 15 minutes of the game, that just completely obliterated me.

SO third time I managed to make it into the night and my hidey hole was under constant attack by zombies and wolves all night. Could not defend it cause a @%$#ing direwolf spawned, ripped through everything and owned my butt.

Seriously WTF?

Edit: So as soon as I wrote this, I ran around trailer and got eaten by a @%$#ing dog. So as I understand it, early game I have no proper weapons to defend myself and enemies I cannot defeat. Great, so the gameplay now consist of me running away from dogs and wolves during the day, and cowering in dark corner whole night withou doing anything. Fun

 

Git Gud is all I can say. I kill ferals at night on day 1 with a wood club on warrior difficulty. 3 slow walking zombies should be cake. As for direwolves, when u run away from them zig-zag a bit however if your encumbered at all, your pretty much dead. I am also out questing at night on day 1. Meleeing/Using the bow to kill things. Expect the first night to be rough. As it seems wolfs and such spawn the first night at night. If I am not questing on night 1, I usually am working on my shack on stilts, so I am not on the ground for anything to get at me

[Iron bars vs Frame bars]

Iron ones end up with more HP in the end, but you need steel, so early game you'd wanna use the other ones I assume.

[Sneaking and its problems (and how to fix it)]

On 12/18/2021 at 12:13 PM, JCrook1028 said:

Thinking you can stealth on the highest difficulty level is your problem. You shouldn't be able to imo. Working As Intended as far as I am concerned.

 

The problem is its the same on any difficulty, Difficulty does not stop auto-aggro volumes from rushing you second you walk in, it doesn't stop zombies from being behind things constantly. Its just getting stupid now. Especially the zombies in closets, hidden walls and even dropping down from the cieling, they make NO SENSE, like what the was a zombie doing in those places anyway? its completly immersion breaking and quite frankly just unfun. Office_04 in A20 exp is a prime example of a unfun poi. literally every single sleeper volume auto-aggros second you walk in, including zombies dropping from, the cieling/walls in almost every room. Whats worse is in the loot room one of the sleepers spawns right beside the place close enough to be hugging them, this sleeper doesn't spawn till you actually walk into the room, so its a 100% cheapshot as its right beside you when it spanws.

 

Like stealthing does save ammo when you can actually get a sneak attack which in A20 is kinda rare due to most sleeper volumes just knowing your there second you walk in and charging you. Stealth clearing is also much slower than just going in guns blazing, your trading speed for saftey. I've pretty much stopped investing in the sneak perks in A20 as they are of very little use anymore.

[How I feel and hope changes are made.]

18 hours ago, minisith said:

Actually 7DTD lore is zombies was from a mutated virus.   Just check the newspapers on the ground in game.   That is what they were aiming for but that could have changed, but not that I know of.  It is not from a nuclear war.

 

The special zombies can also be explained by the game lore that they tried using nukes to deal with the problem but they took to long to do it, so it was too late. I mean the wasteland biome deff looks like a nuke hit it.

1 hour ago, hiemfire said:

 

A few of those papers also show nuclear blasts, so a combination of zombie virus and nuclear warfare, if the nukes weren't a failed attempt to contain the virus, is possible.

 

Yeah they tried using nukes to stem the flow after a point, but all that did was breed newer stronger more mutated zombies. They made the problem worse not better.

[The weird implementation of stealth and its counter measures.]

4 minutes ago, theFlu said:

I haven't seen that one, hah. Sounds like a stack of TnT is a required part of a stealther's toolkit.

 

I mean with how useless stealth is in A20 you might as well. Since second you walk into the room everything most likely is going to charge you anyway. Might as well start with a big boom.

[Ammo in loot in A20]

On 12/18/2021 at 10:24 AM, Spatch said:

Day 13 in our two-person playthrough and ammo is still scarce.  I have maybe 80 rounds of 7.62 and have to be very judicious in its use.

 

And to answer the OP's question, nope, that is not too much!  That looks just about right!

 

On day 13 i'd still be using a baseball bat, steel club or archery to kill zombies and wouldn't even be wasting bullets, unless something like a bear, or dire wolf showed up.

4 hours ago, canadianbluebeer said:

Club/axe early on,  knuckles/guns later.

 

T5 was knuckes for just a few zeds, guns for the "busy sections"

(getting broken arms from punching  negates the brawler perks)

 

While fun getting into the "dunny",  much easier (and faster) to just mow'em down

with the M60.

 

(shotgun does too much block damage for me to feel comfy using it in a POI. pity)

 

 

I feel the same way about shotguns, way to much block damage very risky to use it in most poi's as its easy to have a pellet miss then destroy a loot container behind a zombie. One time in A19 I had a horde night I used a shotgun, and by the next morning it dug a pretty big cave outside in the direction I was shooting from the stray pellets.

[The weird implementation of stealth and its counter measures.]

2 minutes ago, Viktoriusiii said:

The absolute WORST is when they are behind metal walls.
In that poi with the seperate garage and underground bunker, there is a hallway with like 14 fake walls that you need to check. It is super narrow so no chance to snipe the Z's behind. Once you break the wall and fail the check, even in stealth, all of them wake up. Now you gotta content with 4-6 radiated zombies in a narrow hallway. Running away is hard because you are alread overloaded and even if you manage, since it is such a narrow hallway with lights, reentering stealth only has limited usage.

Worst poi I had to do in a while!

 

Oh yeah I could see that being a bad one, because even if you shoot the fake door, the noise from hitting a metal object is going to wake everything up anyway. So your kinda screwed no matter what in that poi, plus as you said narrow hallway, so no real way to snipe anything. I also voted No on your poll, I've never liked the auto-wakeup/ambush mechanic, unless its like in the loot room, nevermind the stupid placement of sleepers and how it completly makes stealth pointless.

[The weird implementation of stealth and its counter measures.]

Just now, theFlu said:

The closets are a little silly, but now there seems to be "closets" painted as a part of brick walls.. because, that's like a thing, right?

 

Don't even get me started on the fake walls with zombies behind them that are very rampant in A20, One Poi in A20 Exp almost every single sleeper was behind one of these.

[vehicles are teleporting to new locations]

2 hours ago, Boidster said:

A complete bug report in the proper forum would be helpful. This sort of thing was a problem a couple alphas ago; sucks if it's come back for A20.

 

Its back but thankfully not AS bad, before the vehicle would disappear into the void, at least now its usually nearby a few blocks underground. It happens in single player too so its not just a multiplayer issue. I only play single player and I have it happen 1-3 times each game (I play hardcore so I die I delete save). It might have something to do with the zombies falling thru the floor issue I been seeing, Half the time I kill a zombie with melee, he dies half buried in the ground up to its waist for some reason, Block is still there, it just glitches thru it. I've also had crawling zombies, including the new spider zombie literally glitch inside of concrete blocks, I could not hit them, but they were able to hit me.

[The weird implementation of stealth and its counter measures.]

On 12/13/2021 at 12:31 PM, meganoth said:

In A19 auto-wakeup rooms were relatively seldom. Less than 5%, someone went through the code.

 

I don't know if that ratio changed, but I noticed that I have a much harder time to stay in stealth. Even removing noisy stuff on the floor to avoid making noise ironically wakes up zombies already. And especially shooting at a door to see the zombie behind wakes up the zombie (which it never did in A19). In other words, my problems seem not to come from auto-aggro rooms.

 

Now before we jump to remedies we should really find out, whether the cause of all the new difficulties is A) auto-aggro rooms, B) weaker stealth, or C) activated feral sense (which I thought was only affecting wandering zombies, not sleepers, but maybe I'm wrong?)

 

 

 

I been playing a20 exp as many have, and I've notice almost every poi now is full of ambushes etc, some of them like office_04 literally has a ambush and zombies dropping down from the cieling EVERY SINGLE ROOM. The main issues I have with stealth is the Auto-aggro zombies, and the stupid placement of sleepers with how they are always behind an object or in some closet, some might say its smart placement for anti-stealth and it is, but it kinda breaks immersion seeing all these zombies perfectly positioned to not be snipeable at all without waking them up first.

 

Stealthing thru a poi is already the slowest way to clear a poi by far. But because of that slow speed we gain saftey in exchange. However A20 has pretty much removed the saftey part, when every single sleeper volume just about wakes up second you walk into the room. I mean the loot room having a ambush or right before the loot room? I am perfectly fine with that, but this almost every sleeper volume just waking up the second you walk in is getting tedious, along with the placement of sleepers being a big F*** you to stealth gameplay as by the time you can align a shot your waking them up anyway from walking. The zombies in the closets and such really have to stop, it was cool back when it was first put in, as it was a rare thing, but now literally HALF the sleepers are inside the damn walls or cielings.

 

Tfp may think this is a great gameplay concept, but to most players these issues just annoy the hell out of them and are generally disliked especially people that like their immersion. Zombies aren't going to always be perfectly behind objects or in closets/fake floors in cielings.

 

I've pretty much stopped putting any points into the stealth skills are they are pointless in A20, they went downhill a ton in A19, now this is pretty much the final nail in the coffin to the point they might as well remove the perk entirely for how useless it is.

On 12/16/2021 at 12:44 AM, Viktoriusiii said:

Point taken.

It FELT very much (and I thought it was explained like that as well) like basicially every room is a auto-wakeup room.
But if that is not the case, I withdraw my point. But yeah an official description WOULD help.

 

There is a difference though. A game where the player can not impact the results with skills is inherantly different than one where he can.
A game where skill matters should not use RNG (or at least the absolute minimum possible amount), because otherwise the player starts feeling cheated.
Like me right now. Even though I have 3/5 sneaking, it still feels like every room wakes up once I enter it, meaning I have stopped playing a sneaky character, because there is no use anyways.
If the game descides when a zombie wakes up, then what I do doesn't matter (enough). This is a bad design.

Yes 7d2d is not a pure stealth-game, but if you skill into stealth, it should be considered under the same rules:

Imagine if in splinter cell you sneak up to a guard and it suddenly, for no reason hears you. "Well you mjust have stepped on a pile of paper that wasn't visible, but who knows?"
Not only would it not be fair, it would actively hurt the stealthmechanics.
If I have the choice between two mechanics, but one of them punishes me for using it... why owuld I use it?



And all this still doesn't factor in the absolute HORROR of breaking the internal gamerules. But I have talked about that enough.
Staying consistent with behavior and rules is important or a game feels random.

Thank you for testing.

But honestly, I have no problem stealthing outside. I can have 20 vision and still stand right next to a zombie outside.
I think it is just in POIs, which would point to these sleeper volumes as the problem...

 

 

But thank you. The fact that a mod actually confirms the uselessness of stealth is very reassuring.

AHAHAHA xD great mechanic! (sorry! Thank you for testing! But this is just silly!)

 

Well yeah if you place a block on the "trigger block" then walk on top of that, it usually is not gonna trigger as its expecting a player to stand on it, not a block. Same way for some of these triggered poi's if u bust the wall out to the side in and go in they sometimes don't trigger either. Like I get what they were trying to do, they are trying to create a experience, but this gets dull fast when its repeated multiple times per poi and in virtually every poi. I used to only get Agi for the stealth perks in Vanilla, now I don't even bother as the stealth perks are pretty much useless in the place you'd wanna use them the most: Inside a poi. I guess the sneak attack damage one is still mildly useful outdoors at least.

[Oof! What a kick in the #$$ for multiplayer fans...]

11 minutes ago, Gazz said:

And what is "any kind of population on the server"?

8 players, I assume, because that's the supported number?

 

yeah if your going over the supported number your doing so at your own risk of it being bad in various ways. the game is designed for 1-8 players, no more. If your going over 8, thats on you when the game is not setup for it. I mean you can, but if your going above the reccomended max of 8, thats kinda on you and you can't really complain about issues when your not staying in reccomended limits.