[Thoughts on the current state of the game]

I'd like to see some utility skills be cross stat, like for example the cooking skill, have it basically look at 2 or 3 stats and whichever is the highest determines how high you can take it. Str is fine, add it to endurance (gotta have endurance to eat some of the stuff) and maybe intel. Whichever of these 3 stats is the highest is the one that determines what level of master chef perk you can get. Miner69'er and motherload could also cross 3 or even 4 stats, the only stat that doesn't make sense here is agility. Intel your smart enough to know where to hit and how for the most damage/resources, Perception is same as intel, Endurance makes sense as Mining is hard work irl, and Stregenth, well you need strgenth to drive a pickaxe into a rock. Whichever of these 4 stats is highest is what determines what level you can take miner 69'er/motherload to.

 

I hate the stat system 7dtd uses personally, its god aweful for single player games as you need to do everything yourself, its why I still just mainly go str, as it has miner 69'er and motherload in it, 2 very useful skills across the entire game for single player. Club and shotguns are also very good weapon choices. I've tried other stat builds, and tbh none of them feel like they flow as well as str does. My idea of letting multiple stats determine the max you can lv a perk to instead of one would help fix this a bit.

[Zombie not hit animation]

Its been a issue since a19 or a20, before they changed it a zombie had to stop moving before it could take a swing, in a19 or 20+ they can swing while moving and sadly this often allows them to hit you with 0 animation during their stagger or when falling down and other such things. I've had zombies hit me in the middle of their getting knocked down animation due to this. Most of the times I am hit in 7dtd vanilla is due to these cheap 0 animation hits that are basically unavoidable as you can't even see them coming.

[Traders and quests need to be nerfed]

15 minutes ago, Riamus said:

The reason it isn't based solely on tier is because doing so is too OP.  Instead, it bases it on your game stage and other things (as well as tier) so that if you're powering through quests quickly, you aren't going to get the best stuff as fast.  You'd have a more unbalanced rewards if you based it solely on the tier of the quest.  This doesn't mean the rewards can't be balanced more.

 

Yeah in my current game I use clubs for my melee weapon and on day 8 I was given a ql 5 steel club for a trader reward, or a ql 5 steel pickaxe, I took the club since I could already craft ql 4 steel pickaxe's, the problem is now I have almost my best melee weapon for my build and its on day 8. Only thing better would be finding a ql 6 one. As vanilla has nothing left after steel. I personally usually get bored by day 8 or 9 in vanilla because by them I am so overpowered I can 2 shot most zombies with normal swings on warrior difficulty with my perked melee weapon. The game scales far FAR to slowly to support how fast you get strong resulting in the game just getting boring by day 8 or 9 even on warrior difficulty as the zombies are still mostly nothing but fodder. Even in t4 clear quests I might get a single feral in the entire poi. Ferals are about the right things for my chars power level at this point. I got 7 str and pummel pete 4.  Radiated would be above my current power level but, I am pretty much nearly capped out for melee by day 8 so... its why many people say they need a tier above steel finally, and maybe some higher tier zombies to go with it.

 

Imo 7dtd hasn't gone anywhere really in 4+ years other than visuals. Its why I turned to mods, as mods actually take the game places since the devs seem to have no interest in doing so anymore or at least this is what it feels like.

 

As for the steel tools, thats not that op, if your a str build, I can usually craft qual 3-4 steel tools by the time they are commonly in quests. harvesting tool mags seem to be fairly easy to find. Maybe the trader is balanced assuming you have max stat and perks to determine what it can give you for a quest reward? Its hard to say, as some magazines are much harder to find period as their main sources are just far rarer.

[my A21 suggestions/feedback]

23 hours ago, khzmusik said:

 

I tried this, it doesn't work and there are reasons. Dye is a mod, and mods in general aren't stackable. It leads to too many issues, most of which are things you wouldn't even think about normally. (Like putting a stack on a weapon and only getting 1 when removing it; or problems with shift-clicking or drag-and-drop stacks; that sort of thing.)

 

I would rather have dyes be craftable so you can scrap them to paint then re-craft the dyes later, but that leads to balancing issues which are not trivial and therefore would be controversial.

 

If you think of a solution let me know, because it's something I wanted to mod into the game but never figured out how most players would want it done.

 

As for the other suggestions - I'm totally against them because they remove things from the game, and I already don't like how much TFP have removed.

 

Actually dye stacking can be done you just need to go about it in a diff way, Basically you make a item that lets you turn a single dye into a Boxed up stack, like the mining book that lets you compress 6000 iron into a boxed stackable item that stacks up to 5 or 10. Same deal with the dye, you make a item that takes 1 dye to make, and you craft it, it gets the little boxicon like the mining resource stacks do, when you open the box you get the 1 dye back as a useable mod. Darkness falls does this with dyes as they are pretty vital to the class system (need black dyes to make ink, and black dye can be made from multiple different combos of other colors). That said why do you horde dyes? I basically just toss them when I find em in loot on the floor like I do anything I don't want. Really wish there was a hotkey to drop a item right out of a loot container so I don't have to click and drag and drop it out.

 

As for inventory size, I personally feel upping the inv size to 60 would help a ton with loot clutter issue. Basically its adding 1 more row at the bottom and extending the colum by 1. so its 6 rows of 10 spaces. I sometimes use a 60 slot backpack mod in a21 vanilla, and its such a improvement to QoL that its mindblowing, while at the same time not being OP like using the 96 slot would be. With a size of 60 you still need to do some inv management, but you can usually locust a poi for stuff and have a bit of space for actual loot when you have 60 slots.

 

As for your making shotgun shells with no casing or bullets with no casing this makes no sense. You need something to hold the gunpowder in one spot as its a powder it'll literally fly everywhere with a slight breeze. Also if they don't use paper they make use polymers instead which is a bigger issue. I do kinda agree that some things should just removed from loot like bones etc, and many up how many you get from normal sources to compensate. 7dtd has a real issue with loot clutter and not nearly enough space.

[Does Anyone Else Have This Happen While Mining?]

I've had this happen in A20 and earlier, it happens when you make too many world changes in one play session, usually mining another block nearby fixes it, its a memory issue I think and a hard bug to fix. I'd not worry to much about it, it fixes itself pretty quickly.

[Any plans to fix A21 random gen? Suggestions to improve.]

1 minute ago, theFlu said:

I've seen maybe a dozen or two traders in A21, but I can't think of one that was really surrounded; most had at least 2 sides clear of POIs. Plenty were in the middle of absolute nowhere, or in a tiny town at best.

 

Its only really a issue in a big town it seems, anything smaller its not a problem.

[Alpha 21 has broken over 90,000 consecutive players and is in the top 10 games on Steam]

I think its more how pretty the game looks than anything thats attracting more casuals to it. Many casual gamers will look at a games graphics and go yay or nay based on that alone. That coupled with how they rushed a21 stable out to make it for the sale. I doubt a21 stable would have been out so quick if it wasn't for the sale. I'm glad its doing well, I just wish the game would go somewhere, as to me it hasn't gone anywhere in like 3-4 years other than visually.

 

That said, I recently hit 8000+ hours played in 7dtd, gotta admit its been the best value for money for me i've seen in gaming. Very modable too so when you get bored of vanilla you can mod the hell out of it, some are even major overhauls that make it feel like a entirely new game.

[Any plans to fix A21 random gen? Suggestions to improve.]

Alright I been experimenting generating worlds and i've noticed a few things. Also have noticed some issues.

 

1: Why do all towns seem to have the same layout? Yes some of the poi's are different but they often always have the same shape.

 

2: There is a severe problem with repeating poi's, I've genned several maps where there was literally 4 of the same farm poi all side by side.

 

3: Its nice that you spawn usually within 500m to a trader, but there is a problem I been noticing, sometimes you spawn by one in the middle of no where that only has 1 poi nearby with no town within 1-2 KM of it, this is a real rough start for a new player. Maybe fix it so the player always starts within 500m of the biggest town in the forest biome if that can be done?

 

4: Why was the trader tags changed? A20 had such nice trader spawns, the ones in A21 kinda suck when they are buried in the town surrounded by poi's, I don't know about others but I usually like to build a base near the trader and this really screws with that when its surrounded by poi's all all sides. It seems to mostly be an issue in large towns, the small ones its always on the outskirts simmlar to A20.

 

5: This is a wish but when/if 7dtd gets a story can we get to kill trader rekt at some point? I am sure many players would love to be able to do this. I hate that guy many players do.

 

You see when I gen a map I look for a few things, I like to start in a big town, with any trader but rekt in the forest, and in A21 I also like to be able to base close to it. This results in me having to sometimes generate 15+ maps before I manage to get this, never had this issue in A20, I blame the new trader tags that changed its position in A21. Currently trying to start a new game and am on map gen number 16 as I still haven't managed to get what I was looking for. Yeah its kinda a "me" problem here, A20 kinda spoiled me how perfect it almost always was.

[Perked vs Unperked Weapons]

4 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Personally, I tend to use the melee weapon I'm perked in (you kind of have to in A21) and the ranged weapons I intend to spec into with the exception of I always carry a bow/crossbow, even if I've never perked into them.  In my current game I carried an AK for a long time, until I got an SMG (which I had intended to perk into, I just hadn't at the time, though I have now.)

 

So in my current game I'm carrying a spear/crossbow/SMG and am perked in to all three (but I'm also perked into rifles and explosives, which I use on horde night.)

 

This is the downside to losing sex t-rex, unperked melee weapons and tools are just far to much of a stamina drain now to be viable even early game. Not to mention it costs double the perk points to get the max effect sex t-rex used to give globally... to only one weapon/tool line. You really feel the lack of sex t-rex on the wrench, while not a weapon, its a tool, and wrenching things drains my stam like mad now.

 

As for me, I only use the melee weapon I am perked into, as everything else just uses WAY to much stamina for the little damage it does due to the lack of perks. in A20 i'd used different ones earlygame if one was better but in A21 I pretty much stay locked to my initial choice mainly due to the stamina use. As for guns, I don't perk into these into later game, as early game melee is more than sufficent to kill any zombie, even most ferals other than the fatties, you kinda wanna pull out a gun for those. As for guns, I generally perk into the one thats in the same line my melee weapon is as it costs too many perk points to level another stat. I mostly play single player, so I have to do everything myself which basically forces me to always go str first for the mining tool perks, as they are too generally useful to not take.

 

Also as for guns, I feel the guns need a damage boost as a whole, as they just don't do nearly enough damage I feel. Even perked. Some guns are almost useless like rifles, due to the horrid accuacy of them, I've never seen such a inaccurate rifle in any game, takes way to long for the crosshair to center when ADSing, that its usually better to use any other gun type instead. Pistols are good due to the desert vulture, and the 9mm stuff is a decent backup. Shotguns just destroy very short range but very high damage. Automatics are your typical spray and pray, I just wish they had their own ammo that was cheaper than 7.62mm to craft, as its kinda silly that a automatic is using the same ammo of a sniper rifle, yet doing far less damage.

 

As for the melee/tool stam use I do have a suggestion, keep a21's system but front load it. First point gives maybe 20% stam use 40% less power attack stam use. Adjust following points so they add up to what it'd normally be at lv 5. I mean i'd gladly spend 1 point in salvage ops to reduced the wrench stamina use by those numbers, but the 8% and 15% power attack for lv 1 now just is not worth the point.

 

As for the questions, for the first one, I picked I generally only use the weapon I am perked into, with maybe a secondary I am partially into, with exceptions, crossbows and and explosives do enough damage even unperked to be ok to use. Crossbow mostly for sneak attacks and thats about it. For the second question, I picked at early game unperked weapons can do ok other than melee anyway (due to stamina use), but mid to late game you kinda need to perk because they just do too little damage later on without the perks and book series. You start to notice the issue around when you have ferals showing up, a unperked gun just uses up far to much ammo to kill them usually. Crossbow is just too slow unperked reload wise to be useful for anything other than sneak attacks. About only gun that "feels" right across all stages of the game is a shotgun, it could use a effective range boost thou for buckshot, without nerfing its damage.

1 hour ago, theFlu said:

I'm abstaining from voting.

 

Difficulty plays such a huge part, but also the amount of cheese you're willing to go for. There's no hard DPS tests or any of the sort, so you can kill everything with a stone axe with a rad remover. You might not have fun doing it, but you could...

 

In practice, I play on warrior, maybe nudge up to survivalist as the game goes on when the zeds can't keep up at all. 95% in SP, rest in 2 player co-op.

 

There's two weapons I always carry, regardless of spec; bows and pipe bombs or molotovs. Both do a lot of work without a single skill point.

 

For guns, it's mostly main weapons only. I often carry two, one with AP, but mostly for avoiding reloads.

 

I might carry a 9mm to supplement a shotty or a rifle, or to save some ammo from an M60. But that's mostly just to clear out some weaklings, in essence, just faffing about.

 

I don't carry unspecced assault rifles, just because I kinda dislike them. They do work, but 150 rounds feels too little if you plan on relying on them, and wasting several slots for an alt gun.. nah.

 

And I Never carry unspecced rifles, as they don't really do much without the skills and even specced they need their own type of prep - so they're never really a functional alternative to the main weapon.

 

 

Rifles would be fine if they had proper accuarcy for the gun type, rifles are usually the most accurate guns in a game even for hipfire, when ADSing in 7dtd you have to wait for the crosshair to center before and after a shot, this would be fine if its damage was far higher, but the damage on them is kind of low for all their draw backs, that and automatics have simmlar range to a rifle and are far more accurate than one, which is really akward. If I had a choice i'd mostly just pull out a automatic over a rifle at anytime as its just more accurate, and the fact its auto and a big magazine size means less reloading. Yes I am aware the lever action and sniper rifle exist but they still have the crosshair problems of all other rifles making their bigger magazine sizes mostly pointless.

[What players want vs what TFP wants]

57 minutes ago, Roland said:

It’s not so much a matter of players and TFP wanting different things but a matter of having different priorities. TFP does want to release updates that are expansionary but until the basic game is finished the updates will continue to be more developmental. 
 

This means there will be a mixture of some new features mixed with a lot of polishing and reworking of existing features. All of those things on your player desires list are things that TFP plans to do. Some of those like bandits are very likely going to arrive in A22 and others may not show up until after the gold release. 
 

 

Problem here is the Devs at TFP keep redoing game systems and its been a cycle in a loop for as long as I can remember (I started in a9-10?), causing the game to basically stagnate and not really go anywhere other than visually. Its why alot of players go to mods, because mods are putting in the things Tfp needs to, so the game can finally move forward.

 

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

We got those new POI´s in A21.  

 

And yes to other NPC´s than traders to give out missions and tougher zombies than radiated ones for late game. With that we ofc need something past steel to upgrade.

 

One of my most memorable evenings in 7 days was playing Darkness Falls and clearing Hershel´s farm , the one made by Stallionsden. Literally hundreds of demonic zombies and demons and tons of screamers that were attracted. It took us a bit more than 2 ingame days to clear that place. It was hard, exhausting and freaking amazing. So, yes please, more dangerous zombies for late game.

 

Also please radiated wasteland and a 2nd seat on the gyro.

 

 

 

 

 

I wish they'd make the gyro fly like a heli with vtol etc than how it flies more like a plane currently. Its gyrocopter, not gyroplane.

[What players want vs what TFP wants]

4 hours ago, Skaarphy said:

I've been playing 7DTD since 20.7, singleplayer only. I often read in the forums though so I think I have a good impression of what the players want. I also believe that most of the things we want would be good for the game. They would noticably and significantly improve the game. 

On the other hand, I don't know what TFP wants, I can only guess. Three things come to mind:

- They want to sell more copies

- They want people to play the game

- They want the game to be fun and engaging

I have no idea though of their "vision" for the game because they don't say. They don't explain themselves like some other developers do. Their choice, what can you do. 

 

What the players want, on the other hand, can be summed up with: expanding on what is already there. That is, e.g.: 

- More zombie variants

- Bandits

- NPCs other than traders, with quests and small trading opportunities

- More POIs

- Upgrades that go beyond steel

- Maybe some kind of main story

 

The thing is, and my point is that what the players want aligns perfectly with what I assume TFP wants. Make the game bigger, more expansive, more rich. It sells well, too. Here's how TFP could market that:

7 new ultra-lethal zombie variants!

Now with bandits! Get ambushed while picking cotton? Take revenge by attacking their heavily fortified bases!

14 NPCs that trade with you or can give you missions!

28 new Points of Interest!

Steel is not enough? Make titanium armor! You can't move but you sure as @%$# won't get hurt!

 

Like that. Instead, what we got is this: 

- Hey, we changed how water works! Now with dew collectors! And no more glass jars!

- And the character progression, too! Now with magazines instead of how it was before! And before that!

I mean ...

 

I mean, the obvious thing. Nobody asked for that. Nobody felt that this is where 7DTD really needed to be overhauled. Improved, yes. Completely overhauled, no. 

So, why did it happen? Nobody knows. TFP don't really explain themselves.

 

I don't mean to say that these are bad changes, not per se. But did they really make the game noticably and significantly better? I'd say no. They just changed things. 

And I don't mean to say that A21 is a bad update, not at all. There are many, many small and not so small improvements. But the two big ones? I really, really wish TFP would have spent their time on what the players asked for instead, and what I believe is a no-brainer, too. Players who like a game always want more of what they like about it. To make it bigger. Fill the world with more stuff. Give them more reason to spend their time there. Not fixing what wasn't broken in the first place.

 

Maybe I'm wrong, I don't know. But that's my take on it, anyhow.      

 

   

 

You forgot a better less restrictive skill/progession system (the stat system sucks ass in its current state).

[Observations about deer a21]

I was wondering where the Bucks were, I haven't seen a single one in A21 so far. Been playing since a21 first went experimental.

[Eggs if nests disappear]

14 hours ago, Stranded_Napkin said:

I've started two playthroughs, hit up every nest I've come up on, and both times had 100 eggs by the start of the first night. They've definitely buffed the probability of eggs in a nest. For the most part, even without chunk reset, there will be plenty of eggs to collect. It just forces you to move further away from your base if you haven't progressed to a point where eggs are no longer an issue. I don't hate it.

 

When did this happen? because I am on day 7 looted every nest i've seen and I have a grand total of 18 eggs, and I've looted well over 40-50 nests.

[How do I force spawn my Robotic Drone to me?]

This is actually good info to know in case this happens.

[Ferals at low gamestage in cities.]

Its normal, Be careful going into the commercial district in a town on day 1/2 ish, as any of those zombies could be a feral and ferals that early at least on warrior difficulty can basically 3 shot you. Killing them with a wooden club is kinda hard that early with no perks etc behind it. Its like the cop cars, before you drain its first hit of hp to jam the lock, be ready to run as it often spawns 5 ferals. Run away come back later and you can go thru the 250 jammed lock state with a stone axe etc then loot the car. The cop cars always have decent loot in them too, I loot them even on day 1, Mark car on map, bash thru first layer of hp to see if the ferals spawn, if they do, I run away and come back later to loot it, if they don't (its not guarnteed they spawn just a high chance) I just loot it then.

[Dew collector nerf in New update?]

13 minutes ago, theFlu said:

Selling water.. really? I just pulled a stack from my store, it's 80 dukes for stack. Trader takes three stacks per the three day reset, so a stack a day.

 

Just to pay for the filter, 2250 (?), that's 30 stacks, or about 100 days. After 100 days of daily looting the water and "3-daily" selling, you've earned yourself a new filter.

 

So, yeah, it's "profitable", but the growth rate is ridiculously slow. And each new filter needs one new trader to accept all of the produced water, so your selling trips grow with every addition.

 

I'd rather just do 3 t1 clears, or 2 t2 clears and just buy one, much faster. Beside you need that water why would you sell it of all the other possible things you could make a better profit of it anyway?

[Feedback: Dying and Reviving at Backpack]

I don't die much but each time I have, and I respawned at backpack it usually put me 100m away from it or so.

[I'm confused...]

You can still make charred meat without a tool, so I don't know what your talking about.

[Duct taped drones]

32 minutes ago, Sandman said:

It seems a like a lot however given that it's easy to amass a lot of duct tape it's doable with minimal effort. 

 

Yeah my current game is on day 7 in the morning and I have like 85 glue sitting in storage? a good chunk of that crafted, I think 60+ or so. Though I came back from a quest that morning to find not one but two screamers waiting for me. Not a big deal thou early game so all they summon is normal walking zombies I can 2 shot with normal swings of my baseball bat.

[why is the SCREAMER WOMAN so unbalanced?]

15 hours ago, Mastermind said:

 

After about 80 hours in A21, I've had a single screamer that wasn't mining related, and that was clearing a T6 infestation. So yeah, definitely sounds like a bug.

 

In my current a21 stable game, I am on day 7 morning ish, I came back to base (I have 5 dew collectors and 2 forges going melting stuff) and had not one but 2 screamers waiting for me. Thankfully it was day 7 so all they summoned were slow walking fodder zombies, but this is going to get really annoying later on when they start summoning worse things.

[I'm confused...]

Can't say I've had any of these issues even in A21 experimental. Mind you in experimental b317 and below you could sometimes be spawned 4 km+ away from a trader on a 8k map, this is fixed in b323 though, in b323+ you always seem to spawn within 500m or so of your first trader. At least all the 20+ maps I generated in A21 b323+ have all had me within 500 or less meters from the trader.

1 hour ago, Khissi said:

There were issues with those earlier builds and trader distances, but my latest maps have put me within a kilometer of the trader.  My roads, including the smallest cattle trails, are just wonderful!  Are you sure you're on the latest build and you deleted all mods and old maps before starting this latest one?

 

My current map has this amazing highway along the side of a mountain, alot of hills but pretty smooth otherwise and the bicycle can drive on it without slowing down due to inclines or anything. Its a good 1.4 km long highway road basically, very nice to look at too.

[Duct taped drones]

20 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

What really bakes my noodle is that the drone somehow needs a lot more duct tape to build.. than a 4X4.

 

Better question is would you REALLY wanna drive a vehicle held together by tape? As for the drone needing alot of duct tape, I am guessing its a balance thing, as its basically 4-5 rows of extra inventory if you load it with full cargo mods. I'd usually make mine wait outside the poi, and I'd use it as a storage chest then make it follow me when I leave. Basically a mobile storage chest. This way I avoid the risk of it getting me killed by blocking a doorway or making me eat my own explosive as it flys in front of me right as I tossed it.

[Anyway to get the game to save new game settings?]

29 minutes ago, FranticDan said:

I'd love if they added save/load setting buttons. You set your settings, press save. Then when you start a new game, all of the settings are reverted to default, but you can press load settings and they'll all change to what you saved them as the last time you pressed save

Everyone wins, the best of both worlds!

The same can be said for integration, so frustrating having to set it ALL up again in a new world of permadeath

 

yeah the new game stuff was always saved by default in every other alpha I can remember, and i've played since a10 or so, a21 is the first time i've seen it not save them and reset them to default each time. I checked the Known issues list, and its not on there, I made a bug report for it.

[Anyway to get the game to save new game settings?]

I am wondering as a20 didn't have this problem, but each time I go to start a new game, it resets all the options back to defaults instead of what a20 (and every alpha below i've played from 9) I have to reset them everytime. Any fix for this? I play permadeath and sometimes I have to start multiple games in a row depending on what happened. I am also picky about my starter trader, so that results in alot of new map generations.

[Duct taped drones]

I am actually more asking why does the higher tier one magically suddendly need more mats? you'd think itd take LESS mats since your better at making them so less waste. TFP does some really strange things at times. Also i've played alot of games with crafting and 7dtd is literally the only one I seen that had craft material costs go UP with higher tiers.