chill Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Going to attempt to be as diplomatic as possible with this post and respect that many people in ways that I cannot fathom get endless enjoyment from PVE with no unpredictable or difficult threat (humans). That is to say, I have 4k+ hours, on PVP servers and below are some of my intial thoughts and reactions to this new A17 version. My initial thoughts; ------ THE GOOD (to start -- diplomatic! ) Great job overall! Seriously. Thank you! Great job on the new textures! Great job on the engine upgrade and performance improvements! Great job on fixing various bugs/issues that plagued servers in the past (without getting into specifics )! Great job on the new vehicles! Great job on the relatively better than the last few times experimental version stability and early experience! Great job on the new skill tree (overall, suggestions below). Great job on some of the new items that I've seen! ----- CLAIMING (now for the necessary and hopefully constructive criticism / thoughts) The claim change is **not very well conceived (diplomatic, I promised) for a plethora of reasons including but not limited to; - It is painfully, hilariously, ridiculously easy for an experienced PVP player to figure out the exact square a single claim is in and drill it out in the early game. A single claim isn't just meaningless or pointless in this context in 99% of real-world builds that aren't super-late-game and elevated into a gigantic column and hidden with paint --> they're totally pointless until that point. They only serve to advertise your base prior to that point with a huge "hey free loot over here" sign because they're that easy to locate and drill out without the ability to overlap multiple hidden claims hidden/painted within a typical early game build. - Most importantly: this change is logically unnecessary to "solve" the problem it is attempting to address, and comes across as an extremely lazy attempt to address said complaints. I understand the desire to immediately try to please the core *forum* audience of PVE'ers, I do. Their complaints of POI's being "taken over" by players were long and loud I'm sure; just as they were for zombies being able to be heard too far away before you guy's utterly ruined the beautiful range of sounds the game used to have prior to the A14.3 patch. However, perhaps instead of taking the route of changing one variable in one line of code to a "1"; an idea would be perhaps... make a server configurable option for POI claim-protection such as that the trader's already have? Of course, that may take more coding work than simply changing a variable or deleting some existing lines of code to limit claims to "1" :crushed: - A large majority of the enjoyment of the game in PVP is predicated on territorial control in PVP, which means fighting for control of territory by removing other people's claims, and placing and protecting your own and the natural "back and forth" that happens with this. This is managed properly and very well in the server settings by experienced server administrators who can customize the cost of crafting claims, their strength and radius, etc. and who understand how to balance these mechanics properly through years of trial & error, as well as player feedback! But hey, lets just... toss that right out the window because of some complaints about POI's being taken over by players (is that even a bad thing?) - One cannot build multiple bases in multiple places on a server without multiple claims. - One cannot build huge bases with just a single claim (potentially). - One cannot build and protect typical things like external farms, horde bases,etc. - One cannot counter-claim an enemy base's perimeter and do other PVP-like things that are considered by the entire PVP playerbase as "core mechanics" of PVP/raiding etc. - Above and beyond all the reasons above: this is a voxel based game and building seemingly is a core aspect of many people's enjoyment in it! Unilaterally and suddenly limiting everyone's building abilities to a certain small radius seems... on the face of it... silly? Obviously counter intuitive? Drastic? Lacking of imagination and creativity? Preventing of said expressions of imagination and creativity with building/claiming which seem core to the vast majority of the playerbase's enjoyment of said game. Also: a bit out of touch. Immediately made me think of the Blizzard devs that just hyped up a Diablo announcement @ blizzcon recently for a few months then announced to an absolutely crushed crowd of 99% PC enthusiasts a cell phone game that's essentially a reskin of another cheap chinese microtransaction-infested cell phone game. LOL. ----- MISC - The stamina change is bad, scratch that (diplomatic) maybe a bit much. The early game will be difficult/slow/grindy enough relative to the late game with infinite stamina due to proper crafting of proper resources (such as coffee) already. - The range of sounds is still the main thing holding this game back from being an accidentally fantastic niche PVP game that does something that no other game does. It was really cool back in A13 when I could hear the faint sound of an auger miles away for a second and have a vague idea of which direction to run to slowly, have a chance of hunting that asking-for-it enemy player down. And that faint distant sounds of engines, the odd gunshot, and even super-quiet distant footsteps/jump noises (when well within a km) was atmospheric and exciting as hell. In my opinion the absolute worst change to the game in the last 4 versions by far was caving to the whinging of some PVE'rs who can't set their volume properly who were complaining about hearing zombies too far away and then universally nerfing the range of all sounds. This was *huge* for PVP and massively detracted from the amount of interactions and late-game PVP fun and discovering of other players that are trying to hide in a massive map with some sherlock detective work and persistence. - New skill tree is overall great, but perhaps could use a minor tweak in terms of toning down the "absolutely required time investment to have a meaningful mid-game amount of levels on a given server" which is currently at like ~8 to 12 hours at least but may be double that for not as experienced players. Thanks in advance for your time reading this, and please constraining your responses to addressing-the-actual points-rationally type responses if at all possible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poojam Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Going to attempt to be as diplomatic as possible with this post and respect that many people in ways that I cannot fathom get endless enjoyment from PVE with no unpredictable or difficult threat (humans). That is to say, I ha.............is, and please constraining your responses to addressing-the-actual points-rationally type responses if at all possible! I'll just go ahead and respond for the fanbois. You're enjoying the game wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caatalyst Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Going to attempt to be as diplomatic as possible with this post and respect that many people in ways that I cannot fathom get endless enjoyment from PVE with no unpredictable or difficult threat (humans). That is to say, I have 4k+ hours, on PVP servers and below are some of my intial thoughts and reactions to this new A17 version. My initial thoughts; ------ THE GOOD (to start -- diplomatic! ) Great job overall! Seriously. Thank you! Great job on the new textures! Great job on the engine upgrade and performance improvements! Great job on fixing various bugs/issues that plagued servers in the past (without getting into specifics )! Great job on the new vehicles! Great job on the relatively better than the last few times experimental version stability and early experience! Great job on the new skill tree (overall, suggestions below). Great job on some of the new items that I've seen! ----- CLAIMING (now for the necessary and hopefully constructive criticism / thoughts) The claim change is **not very well conceived (diplomatic, I promised) for a plethora of reasons including but not limited to; - It is painfully, hilariously, ridiculously easy for an experienced PVP player to figure out the exact square a single claim is in and drill it out in the early game. A single claim isn't just meaningless or pointless in this context in 99% of real-world builds that aren't super-late-game and elevated into a gigantic column and hidden with paint --> they're totally pointless until that point. They only serve to advertise your base prior to that point with a huge "hey free loot over here" sign because they're that easy to locate and drill out without the ability to overlap multiple hidden claims hidden/painted within a typical early game build. - Most importantly: this change is logically unnecessary to "solve" the problem it is attempting to address, and comes across as an extremely lazy attempt to address said complaints. I understand the desire to immediately try to please the core *forum* audience of PVE'ers, I do. Their complaints of POI's being "taken over" by players were long and loud I'm sure; just as they were for zombies being able to be heard too far away before you guy's utterly ruined the beautiful range of sounds the game used to have prior to the A14.3 patch. However, perhaps instead of taking the route of changing one variable in one line of code to a "1"; an idea would be perhaps... make a server configurable option for POI claim-protection such as that the trader's already have? Of course, that may take more coding work than simply changing a variable or deleting some existing lines of code to limit claims to "1" :crushed: - A large majority of the enjoyment of the game in PVP is predicated on territorial control in PVP, which means fighting for control of territory by removing other people's claims, and placing and protecting your own and the natural "back and forth" that happens with this. This is managed properly and very well in the server settings by experienced server administrators who can customize the cost of crafting claims, their strength and radius, etc. and who understand how to balance these mechanics properly through years of trial & error, as well as player feedback! But hey, lets just... toss that right out the window because of some complaints about POI's being taken over by players (is that even a bad thing?) - One cannot build multiple bases in multiple places on a server without multiple claims. - One cannot build huge bases with just a single claim (potentially). - One cannot build and protect typical things like external farms, horde bases,etc. - One cannot counter-claim an enemy base's perimeter and do other PVP-like things that are considered by the entire PVP playerbase as "core mechanics" of PVP/raiding etc. - Above and beyond all the reasons above: this is a voxel based game and building seemingly is a core aspect of many people's enjoyment in it! Unilaterally and suddenly limiting everyone's building abilities to a certain small radius seems... on the face of it... silly? Obviously counter intuitive? Drastic? Lacking of imagination and creativity? Preventing of said expressions of imagination and creativity with building/claiming which seem core to the vast majority of the playerbase's enjoyment of said game. Also: a bit out of touch. Immediately made me think of the Blizzard devs that just hyped up a Diablo announcement @ blizzcon recently for a few months then announced to an absolutely crushed crowd of 99% PC enthusiasts a cell phone game that's essentially a reskin of another cheap chinese microtransaction-infested cell phone game. LOL. ----- MISC - The stamina change is bad, scratch that (diplomatic) maybe a bit much. The early game will be difficult/slow/grindy enough relative to the late game with infinite stamina due to proper crafting of proper resources (such as coffee) already. - The range of sounds is still the main thing holding this game back from being an accidentally fantastic niche PVP game that does something that no other game does. It was really cool back in A13 when I could hear the faint sound of an auger miles away for a second and have a vague idea of which direction to run to slowly, have a chance of hunting that asking-for-it enemy player down. And that faint distant sounds of engines, the odd gunshot, and even super-quiet distant footsteps/jump noises (when well within a km) was atmospheric and exciting as hell. In my opinion the absolute worst change to the game in the last 4 versions by far was caving to the whinging of some PVE'rs who can't set their volume properly who were complaining about hearing zombies too far away and then universally nerfing the range of all sounds. This was *huge* for PVP and massively detracted from the amount of interactions and late-game PVP fun and discovering of other players that are trying to hide in a massive map with some sherlock detective work and persistence. - New skill tree is overall great, but perhaps could use a minor tweak in terms of toning down the "absolutely required time investment to have a meaningful mid-game amount of levels on a given server" which is currently at like ~8 to 12 hours at least but may be double that for not as experienced players. Thanks in advance for your time reading this, and please constraining your responses to addressing-the-actual points-rationally type responses if at all possible! As someone who enjoys PVP I personally welcome these changes. The previous system was way to OP and raiding could take literally up to 8 hours in some instances (this was an actual thing with my group). It ended up taking even more time as we went back the next day to finish off. Getting raided shouldn't take 8 hours. Getting raided is part of the cycle of PVP unless you play on a server where the rules are no raiding. I'm not saying things couldn't be done to make the experience better for the raider and the defender but I personally see this as a step in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edem_Alive Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 As someone who enjoys PVP I personally welcome these changes. The previous system was way to OP and raiding could take literally up to 8 hours in some instances (this was an actual thing with my group). It ended up taking even more time as we went back the next day to finish off. Getting raided shouldn't take 8 hours. Getting raided is part of the cycle of PVP unless you play on a server where the rules are no raiding. I'm not saying things couldn't be done to make the experience better for the raider and the defender but I personally see this as a step in the right direction. So you think that a person who has spent 100+ hours should be able to be raided in under 8 hours? Seriously?? Go play rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chill Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 As someone who enjoys PVP I personally welcome these changes. The previous system was way to OP and raiding could take literally up to 8 hours in some instances (this was an actual thing with my group). It ended up taking even more time as we went back the next day to finish off. Getting raided shouldn't take 8 hours. Getting raided is part of the cycle of PVP unless you play on a server where the rules are no raiding. I'm not saying things couldn't be done to make the experience better for the raider and the defender but I personally see this as a step in the right direction. Just to clarify; You have no argument with any of my points in favor of multiple claims but: You'd just like to be able to raid people faster? Do you not understand that there is a "claim protection" setting that controls this, either way? LOL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnusperSven Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 The sound is the main thing for me if u use an Auger zombies should come from a far. I think the sound range should be at least 500m (now 50) for an Auger. Also the sound range of shooting should be doubled. I just feel you should pay the prize if u use guns or digging tools be it in PVE ( you attract zombies) or PVP other players hear you. The one claim per player is one of those changes I really did not see coming...I mean if you play Multiplayer (PVE or PVP ) it restricts you to one loc.....not to mention imagine u place a claim by accident...8km away from ur base on a MP server.... Other then that im actually happy with the heavy increase in difficulty ..it was just way to easy before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Res1011 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Fix PVP please I'll just go ahead and respond for the fanbois. You're enjoying the game wrong. I can show you actual PVP servers that have had thousands and thousands of people join and play and quit over 1 seed, which could be a month or 2. You really could argue that more people have tried to play this game for PVP then PVE I mean honestly you really could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poojam Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I can show you actual PVP servers that have had thousands and thousands of people join and play and quit over 1 seed, which could be a month or 2. You really could argue that more people have tried to play this game for PVP then PVE I mean honestly you really could. My sarcasm was lost. Yea. I know. I'm one of em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatientZero Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I completely agree with chill, and I think the LCB is the biggest/most important issue listed. It should at least be an easy toggle for admins or something. If admins are doing their job looking after their server I don't think claimed POIs are much of an issue anyway, but this just cramps PvP. As far as LCBs preventing the spawning of zombies, that should be a toggle as well. -saintsoul (aka Patient Zero) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chill Posted November 21, 2018 Author Share Posted November 21, 2018 I completely agree with chill, and I think the LCB is the biggest/most important issue listed. It should at least be an easy toggle for admins or something. If admins are doing their job looking after their server I don't think claimed POIs are much of an issue anyway, but this just cramps PvP. As far as LCBs preventing the spawning of zombies, that should be a toggle as well. -saintsoul (aka Patient Zero) Appreciate the support bro. I've noticed TFP aren't shy at all about quickly coding changes that are likely (or absolutely) going to at the very minimum upset swathes of the playerbase or sometimes even completely destroy entire game mechanics leading to massive shift of the playerbase away from a mode which is no longer nearly as enjoyable anymore (think PVP after A14). Why not implement some basic good design policy here? Example: When changing core gameplay mechanics like range of sound or land claim functionality where there are likely to be massive divides in not only desired outcomes between different game modes, but even between servers -- why not make these changes simple server configurable options? Specific example #1: Sound PVE Mode On [0/1] going into A14 would have been a godsend. The PVP servers with old sound range would be so much more fun -- and popular! Specific example #2: Claim PVE Mode On [0/1] going into A17 --> nobody complains about the claim situation at all. Want the solution provided here in A17 to the issue of POI's being claimed? Enable Claim PVE Mode. Hell, have it enabled by default if you think it's the best. Watch all the PVP players continue to explore much more complex and useful mechanics that come from being able to layer, overlap, hide, and sprinkle claims around [for a significant resource cost and investment in crafting time] for various complex purposes/battles. No complaints from them it's an easy option to solve in this case. Just an idea that would make everyone happy and completely solve the issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konrax Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 I perk that gives you more land claim blocks and makes them a bigger radius also would be cool and add to your suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponchopolous Posted November 21, 2018 Share Posted November 21, 2018 +1 pve doesnt have to ruin all pvp forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.