Suggestion: Changes to Fireaxe and Hunting Knife to make them viable.

[Henshaw]

I have been testing these weapons extensively, and also done quite a lot of modding on them to make them viable options. Here are my thoughts on them and how to improve them: [SIZE=3]- Fireaxe:[/SIZE] - All other weapons have an head hit multiplier of 4-6, except this weapon which has a 2. It doesn't make any sense whatsoever, and makes it actually the worst weapon in the game right after the wooden club and stick (not really weapons and nobody uses them anyway because Stone Axe is so easy to make). - Raise it's head multiplier to 5 and damage to Entities to 50. This would make it still need to hit to the head for Fatso's and Zobie Cops (winter zombies would only die with a 100% condition axe to one hit), but allow it to actually outperform the clubs and Stone Axe. It still would be worse compared to the Sledgehammer. - Another change would be the damage bonus to wood, which I would change to 5 from 4, making it slightly faster. [SIZE=3]- Hunting Knife:[/SIZE] - It requires a book to make and loses even to the Wooden Club in performance. It hit's too slow to lock down a zombie (all clubs lock them down), but the damage is way too low to compensate (Barbed Club already has higher DPS). - As it's quite a light weapon with a very good blade, I would personally make it much faster, as in real life it's used to poke and sometimes slash at the enemy. Damage I would buff to 20 but not higher, as in most cases one wouldn't have time to get close enough to really hit the vitals (zombie's vitals are in their head anyway). It's speed is now 1.2, which is slower than the Sledgehammer. I would change the speed to 0.5, making it double as fast as the Sledge is. [SIZE=3]- Extra bonus change to Sledgehammer I have had in my games:[/SIZE] - I would lower the damage down to 50 from 70, but make it much better against concrete (it IS a tool after all) from 3 to 8. If the damage is lowered, the bonus multiplier to head would need to be raised from 4 to 6 to compensate. This way it would still be great when hitting the head, but not AS amazing when doing body hits (heavy blunt weapons don't work that well against soft tissue when the opponent doesn't have normal sense of feeling). Thank you for reading. :-)

[Cableman97]

+1. Nice ideas

[pharen]

Good Ideas, but I don't think that a sledgehammer should be good against concrete, have you ever hit a concrete block with a sledgehammer? It's not very effective, a pickaxe is much more suited.

[Henshaw]

Sledgehammer's only use at the moment as a tool is against Concrete, so I was suggesting it to become best for it, thus adding it back to the actual tools selection. At the moment it's really not a tool at all, but a weapon. I do understand the realism, but I try to see games as games first, then comes realism, if possible. :-) I myself never use the Sledgehammer anyway as a weapon, so they get scrapped when I find them currently.

[Scornstar]

[QUOTE=pharen;134561]Good Ideas, but I don't think that a sledgehammer should be good against concrete, have you ever hit a concrete block with a sledgehammer? It's not very effective, a pickaxe is much more suited.[/QUOTE] Just because; I had to work concrete before I went to college and I could not resist chiming in, sledge hammers are an integral part of concrete work. An example of using a sledge to strike concrete to get work done is when removing a curb to build a concrete ramp, best tool to use even if you have a demo saw with diamond blade. But mainly its all about knowing where to strike it and when to tap and when to pound.

[Seito]

Fireaxe -> Should have an higher exhaustion (stamina costs). It is a too good weapon. Srsly, why should i use ever one of the clubs? Huntingknife -> Should be necessary for skinning and getting food out of animals. Doing it without -> max. 1 Meat.

[pharen]

[QUOTE=Scornstar;134713]Just because; I had to work concrete before I went to college and I could not resist chiming in, sledge hammers are an integral part of concrete work. An example of using a sledge to strike concrete to get work done is when removing a curb to build a concrete ramp, best tool to use even if you have a demo saw with diamond blade. But mainly its all about knowing where to strike it and when to tap and when to pound.[/QUOTE] Sorry to have to call you out on this but I'm an engineer and I work in the concrete industry, I think I would have a better idea of structural integrity. Breaking concrete with a sledgehammer only works when used in shear forces. Concrete is weak in shear, but extremely high in load bearing capacity and also very high in hardness. If you place a solid block of concrete on the ground and hit it, all you're gonna get is a small surface chip, sore arms, or a broken handle. Breaking concrete with a sledgehammer in practice is also used in conjunction with a cold chisel, which has very much the same effect as a pickaxe. And furthermore the majority of concrete removal/replacement is done with diggers and machinery anyway.

[Tetrameth]

yeah, knife should have better damage if not for anything other than the danger you need to put yourself in to to apply any damage with it

[Henshaw]

I worked hard to keep realism discussion out of my OP, so please have it somewhere else. It is a game, and should remain so. The reason for buffing Sledgehammer against concrete I already explained earlier. Either agree or disagree with me, but please keep on topic. On the topic of Fireaxe vs Clubs, no matter how it feels, the numbers don't lie, and Fireaxe loses against the Clubs badly. The reason is 1.0 speed on the Fireaxe vs 0.8 on the Clubs. It doesn't look much, but it's enough that the Clubs close down a zombie (most of their attack speed is 0.8, same as the Clubs) completely with their faster speed, while with 1.0 they can hit back between swings. Stone axe has a speed of 1.2, which is even worse. That's actual numbers, but please let's not turn this thread into a discussion about game mechanics.

[Tetrameth]

[QUOTE=Henshaw;135576]I worked hard to keep realism discussion out of my OP, so please have it somewhere else. It is a game, and should remain so.[/QUOTE] The reason people keep referring to realism is because realism has shown to work. So when referencing by eye the image of an item with its actual effect and purpose it removes alot of the explanation of false representations. Whilst 'realism' takes care of this, we not only possibly learn something new by coming out of it smarter than when we went in, we can also begin to assume more of these trivial things, and leave more of our imagination up to... well... imagining things... Like zombie apocalypses for example... :)

[Raithen]

I would like to see a distinction between tools and weapons. If tools become so effective then weapons become obsolete, so in my opinion less damage on all tools to the point where a reinforced club is the same damage as the best tool. As for knives, I'd like to see the ability for them to be thrown. If they hit the ground or hit a zombie, give them a 5-10% chance to break (may be too low/high), but be able to be picked up off the ground where they hit, pulled out of the zombie.

[Quicksilver]

I agree that the hunting knife is WAY TOO SLOW. Fire Axe has a place in the game since you really want one to chop wood items. Changing the best club to need 4 ingots to make and only does a little more damage makes it unused. The question that should be asked is "Is there a use for this item?" If there is never a reason to use anything else then it is too powerful, if there is never a reason not to use anything else then it is too useless. The zombie apocalypse genre contains allot of using tools as weapons. Some weapons are just specialized versions of tools. Axe = Battle Axe, Sledgehammer = Mall and War hammer, wheat thrasher = tonfa, etc. Clubs can be made without a forge (except the one that takes 4 ingots with out comparable damage stats) As for realism, has anyone seen a pickaxe, fire axe, or sledgehammer wear out in a day? even a year seams unlikely. Good thing shooting ranges have metal repair shops since guns wear out after firing them a couple dozen times. oh wait they don't. It is a game, a really fun game, I get that. if these things add to making the game fun then the heck with realism.

[LoneSoldier]

[QUOTE=Quicksilver;136419] As for realism, has anyone seen a pickaxe, fire axe, or sledgehammer wear out in a day? even a year seams unlikely. [/QUOTE] one wrong swing and you break/crack the handle, so yes... I've seen axes and hammers "wear out" in a single day... The wedges that hold the heads onto their handles can come loose... if you're lucky it doesn't go flying when you swing it, it's why we inspect our tools regularly before we use them irl. Hit something solid with the axe... something metal or a rock... you'd probably dent or chip the blade edge and need to sharpen or even replace the head.