Stealth Rebalance Needed

[General Gilbert]

I am a big fan of the game so before I talk about this subject I would like to be clear there are many positives in recent updates and I applaud them. However...

 

The changes to zombie spawns and basing it on proximity has seriously nerfed stealth players.

 

In A21 there has been a change of direction in the new pois to spawn zombie mobs based on player location rather than player noise. With max stealth skills and equipment it is now impossible to sneak around a poi. This is a very negative change for stealth based players.

 

I used to be able to sneak around level five missions with a bow and take on most of the spawns before they see or hear me, it was a very rewarding approach and the complete opposite from the big guns and break down doors and/or ladder to main loot approach. However with this change I have no option other than to use my guns a lot of the time, and the smg being the prime choice with a bow due to being in the same tree just isn't as powerful as someone who has specced into bigger guns. It doesn't feel like a stealth build is any good anymore.

 

To fix this I would suggest going back to the old spawning system, however make stealth harder in other ways if that is deemed as a needed balance. You could make bows harder to aim by adding sway, make arrows a lot less retrievable, or tweak the settings so that you are more detectable at the extremes such as going face to face with a zombie around a corner or breaking down environment components. This could be paired with a radius of alert rather than trigger an entire area from one noise.

[Hoodlumdan]

All the zombies are spawned from the outset, what actually happens is that invisible trigger zones cause them to wake up (like a scripted ambush). I agree that this mechanic invalidates stealth builds, which sucks.

Perhaps they could tweak it so that the zombies wake up and move towards you, but aren't immediately aware of your presence if you're hidden? For now, you can avoid this by taking unexpected pathways; for example doing the POI backwards.

[hiemfire]

2 hours ago, Hoodlumdan said:

All the zombies are spawned from the outset,

No, they are not all spawned in from the outset, they have not been "spawned in from the outset" for several alphas now as a means to save processor load. In allot-most sleeper volumes they are spawned in in an inactive state when you approach the sleeper volume or cross into it. There are also trigger points and objects that are "flagged" to spawn zombies in when crossed or activated.

[Syphon583]

7 hours ago, Hoodlumdan said:

All the zombies are spawned from the outset, what actually happens is that invisible trigger zones cause them to wake up (like a scripted ambush). I agree that this mechanic invalidates stealth builds, which sucks.

Perhaps they could tweak it so that the zombies wake up and move towards you, but aren't immediately aware of your presence if you're hidden? For now, you can avoid this by taking unexpected pathways; for example doing the POI backwards.

Yeah, not sure about that. In smaller POIs, yes, they are typically all spawned in. However, there are so many examples of zombies spawning in volumes as you progress, particularly in large POIs. If they spawned all at once, there would be a huge lag spike depending on how big the POI is. In some of the brand new A21 POIs, it's almost comically bad how the zombies spawn and they will appear behind you in areas that you already cleared. No they weren't hiding in a closet or false wall. They literally spawn out of thin air just out of sight of the player.

 

If you have points into stealth, you literally can hide from altered zombies given the right conditions. You you walk into a volume or step over some trash that alerts the z's in that space, you can remove yourself from your last-known position and, most of the time, the zombies will not be able to find you and lose interest.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Syphon583 (see edit history)