Is there an A20-style POI zombie spawning mod? If not, suggestion!

[Pizzarugi]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum, but been playing the game for years now, starting as far back as shortly after the graphics overhaul to leave the cube shapes behind. I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but seeing as my thread on steam isn't gaining much traction, I figured I might as well try here.

 

I like fortifying doorways when exploring POIs which I then fall back to in order to fight zombies. In A21, that's harder now with the zombies magically spawning into rooms as I now have to play a lot more cautiously so I don't get ambushed by a bunch of rads trying to wake them up.

Is there any mod that brings back older zombie spawn mechanics? Ideally I'd like it on its own rather than tied to some ambitious overhaul which may change things I happen to like. That's not to say I won't refuse the option if that's all we have, but ideally I would like to keep the mod as small as possible.

[arramus]

5 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Hello everyone. I'm new to the forum, but been playing the game for years now, starting as far back as shortly after the graphics overhaul to leave the cube shapes behind. I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, but seeing as my thread on steam isn't gaining much traction, I figured I might as well try here.

 

I like fortifying doorways when exploring POIs which I then fall back to in order to fight zombies. In A21, that's harder now with the zombies magically spawning into rooms as I now have to play a lot more cautiously so I don't get ambushed by a bunch of rads trying to wake them up.

Is there any mod that brings back older zombie spawn mechanics? Ideally I'd like it on its own rather than tied to some ambitious overhaul which may change things I happen to like. That's not to say I won't refuse the option if that's all we have, but ideally I would like to keep the mod as small as possible.

This is one of the fixes in the experimental released today. It is possible that spawning you witnessed was unintentional and may not appear with this update.

 

- Sleeper volumes trying to spawn an entity that just died

[zztong]

10 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

Is there any mod that brings back older zombie spawn mechanics?

 

The old mechanics are still in the game and are still largely being used. The part you are finding undesirable is a one or more new features that expanded on those mechanics AND how those new features are being used by POI Designers. As A21 is the first version with many of those features I think it is normal that POI Designers need the benefit of your observations and feedback about how well it plays, which circumstances are unsatisfying and which circumstances worked.

 

For example, I currently have a Waffle House POI on my workbench being created. Those familiar with real life Waffle House locations know those buildings aren't very large. If I fill the POI with a normal density of zombies and use the traditional approach you want, it's probably Tier 1.

 

But I'm wondering if I can use a new technique here and perhaps make it a Tier 2 POI. I would place passive zombie volumes in the parking lot surrounding the building. They won't spawn until triggered. Then, trigger them with the door to the final room inside the building. So, a player might have a few zombies in the final room to deal with and there would be active zombies outside of the building. My questions:

1. Are players going to feel upset that zombies appeared outside and around the POI? The intention was "zombies wandered up while you were inside" but a player might feel like "that's unfair because the outside was clear before I entered."
2. If there were another player outside, perhaps passing by, perhaps waiting on their friend inside, they would see a bunch of zombies appear. Would that be too jarring?
3. The zombies that spawn are likely aware of the player inside though they cannot see the player. Will this lead to a situation that is fun and challenging to a stealth player. If the stealth player keeps their cool, the zombies will likely lose track of the player.

What are your thoughts?

Edited July 21, 2023 by zztong (see edit history)

[Pizzarugi]

1 hour ago, zztong said:

 

The old mechanics are still in the game and are still largely being used. The part you are finding undesirable is a one or more new features that expanded on those mechanics AND how those new features are being used by POI Designers. As A21 is the first version with many of those features I think it is normal that POI Designers need the benefit of your observations and feedback about how well it plays, which circumstances are unsatisfying and which circumstances worked.

 

For example, I currently have a Waffle House POI on my workbench being created. Those familiar with real life Waffle House locations know those buildings aren't very large. If I fill the POI with a normal density of zombies and use the traditional approach you want, it's probably Tier 1.

 

But I'm wondering if I can use a new technique here and perhaps make it a Tier 2 POI. I would place passive zombie volumes in the parking lot surrounding the building. They won't spawn until triggered. Then, trigger them with the door to the final room inside the building. So, a player might have a few zombies in the final room to deal with and there would be active zombies outside of the building. My questions:

1. Are players going to feel upset that zombies appeared outside and around the POI? The intention was "zombies wandered up while you were inside" but a player might feel like "that's unfair because the outside was clear before I entered."
2. If there were another player outside, perhaps passing by, perhaps waiting on their friend inside, they would see a bunch of zombies appear. Would that be too jarring?
3. The zombies that spawn are likely aware of the player inside though they cannot see the player. Will this lead to a situation that is fun and challenging to a stealth player. If the stealth player keeps their cool, the zombies will likely lose track of the player.

What are your thoughts?

I think there is a misunderstanding. What I am asking for is to bring back the old mechanic where zombies all spawn in the POI at once instead of the current system where rooms fill up as you enter them.

Going by the complaints I've seen on the steam forums, players who nerdpole their way up to rooftops notice a lack of zombie sleepers. However, once they set foot on the roof, they all not only magically appear, but suddenly wake up. From what I understand, this new spawning mechanic is not only a new thing introduced in A21, but is also particularly frustrating for players who specialize in stealth play, as picking them off one by one from a distance while they're still idle is impossible since they don't exist until you reach a certain point in the POI.

Edited July 21, 2023 by Pizzarugi (see edit history)

[zztong]

5 hours ago, Pizzarugi said:

I think there is a misunderstanding. What I am asking for is to bring back the old mechanic where zombies all spawn in the POI at once instead of the current system where rooms fill up as you enter them.

 

So back to sometime before A19? But you said A20 style -- which was never everything in a POI all at once. It was much more like A21. I mean, I started messing with POIs in A19 and the Zombies only spawned when you got near their zombie volumes -- often a room -- within 4 blocks horizontally or within 0 blocks vertically. That's still the same, today, with the exception of the new variations on Triggers that came with A21. There were some Triggers possible in A20, but A21 added more options.

 

Or, at least that's history as I know it.

 

I'm a stealth player too. I only started playing regularly with A19 and you never got the entire POI to spawn at once in advance in that version, or later. Triggers started to be a complication for stealth in A20, but not insurmountable. A21 has more trigger options and there are certainly more complaints. It hasn't ruined stealth for me, but I do have to be ready for a wider variety of triggers and have to modify how I approach POIs. For instance, destroying a door might set off a trigger, so knocking a hole in a wall is sometimes better. Preparing a battlefield before triggering an ambush is also handy.

Edited July 21, 2023 by zztong (see edit history)