A21 Feedback

[Lorri]

I hope I am posting in the right place. I've never left feedback like this before. First, I just want to say thank you VERY much to the entire TFP staff. This game is absolutely amazing and I have enjoyed over 2000 hours of kicking zombie ass!

 

I absolutely loved the first experimental alpha 21 the public got to play. It was fun, a bit different, but very manageable and enjoyable. I've been playing since alpha 15 and I have absolutely loved every single alpha that has come to pass. However, the latest experimental changes are horrible. I don't use that word lightly, either. You raise the price of an essential starter item. Why? Seriously, why? Your new leveling system for tools, weapons, and crafting stations is a neat idea. I was concerned but reserved judgment until I played the game for myself. It was marvelous. So, you change it. lol The ONLY way to make better tools and weapons and to unlock crafting stations which is ESSENTIAL for progression of the game is by the skills bundle books or by finding the books in the world. They were guaranteed quest reward options. Not anymore. After doing several (at least 7, I honestly didn't keep count) tier 1 quests, guess how many I got as an option? 0. Bad luck? Perhaps. But, if I spec my points into certain perks, at least I can have a better chance to loot those books to level up what I want, right? Not anymore. I put 2 points into blades, 1 into miner 69'er, and 1 into advanced engineering. Wanna guess how many books I found of those? Instead, I found knuckle, food, and the same automatic weapons book THREE different times. Maybe I'm just having extremely horrible luck? I've done several starter worlds and I am getting the exact same results, though. If there is anything I can do to better my odds at finding books that I actually need to find, please let me know. Otherwise, may I suggest reversing at least some of these changes?

[Saera]

My husband is having the same issue. He is finding more books for the skills I am perked into and none for his, one of which is to help unlock crafting stations. 

 

 

[meganoth]

In our group we did 8 quests and I got the magazine bundle 4 times while another player got exactly 0. Don't know about the other 2 players, I forgot to ask them, but they didn't sound as if they had as many as I did.

It definitely seems the chance is lower than 50/50 now to get the bundle. Since Faatal said it would be 50/50 though it might actually be a bug. Better would be to nerf magazine amount a bit more (as it still is the best choice most of the time) and make it turn up in say 75% of cases.

 

On your luck in looting: That can happen and it isn't even very improbable. The buff from perks is very small. You will only notice it in the long run or after reaching max perk level.

 

But a longer stone age is intented and all the crafting is optional (even though not finding "Forge ahead" books can really really slow you down). Anything can still be found in loot or bought at the trader as well. Just because the magazines are in everyone's mind at the moment crafting is just one alternative.

 

What you can do is hit hardware stores for "forge ahead" and loot newspaper stands for any magazines. And get some money to buy what you need at the trader. You could wait for the bicycle as the tier1 quest reward, then branch out to nearby traders, as your choices broaden with every further trader you have access to. A point in Daring Adventurer will also give you a slightly better selection. 

 

Ah, and on the price of the filter. A tier1 clear quest seems to gives 800 dukes. So previously you needed 2 such quests for a filter that practically solves drinking water (if you upgrade water to tea). Now you need 3, so at least the normal player will have to endure the full first day without a dew collector. Sounds still ok to me.

 

Edited June 18, 2023 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Euzio]

Just to note, I've not tried A21 yet. Most of what I'm going to comment is based on what I've watched from streamers on youtube. 

I can understand that they'd wanna slow the progression rate of players to stretch out the early game. But I do think they've skewed the balance for it too much. And the quest progression and rewards are a big factor. From what I see, the progression and difficulty is not scaling well. Players seem to be encountering ferals much earlier than you'd expect in quests. And the rewards seem to be quite lackluster the higher the tier you go in the latest update. Its doesn't make sense that rewards for a T4 quest are almost similar (sometimes worse) than a T2. The T4 rewards needed some nerfing but not to that extent. 

[Lorri]

Thank you very much for your reply and information Meganoth. I very much appreciate you taking the time! Thank you for the tips you've suggested. I will definitely try some of those out. I think there is still a problem with points being put into perks and the lack of books. A 75% chance for a quest reward would be a good solution. Before the update, I regularly looted magazines according to what I had put my points into. Maybe I just had good luck in that regard.

 

Looting newspaper stands and POI's generally found in the city can be difficult if you are not prepared, especially in this alpha. Also, traders have been nerfed in this alpha. That would be one heck of a grind to get out of the stone age, especially if you have had bad luck like many others seem to be having finding books for their specific weapons they have put points into. One would have to continue to do tier 1 and 2 quests in order to save for the money to get a higher level stone tool or weapon as they are thousands of dukes. Tier 3 quests and beyond would be a bit challenging with merely stone tools and weapons to accomplish. There are candy and perks to help out with trader prices but at that level where I can have Better Barter and Daring Adventurer at higher levels, I would expect to be out of the stone age. Maybe that's just my view on it though.

[Riamus]

I'll add that in my 2-person group, we are often looting each other's maybe more than our own.  I think sharp sticks is the only one that I loot more that I am perked into.  But that can easily come down to RNG and may not be a bug.

 

I noticed as well that after the update, I am getting a ton of the old books collared to previously.  I've been getting far more than I did in A20.  Might be luck but might be a bug.  It wasn't that way before the magazine nerf.

[wyr3d]

On 6/18/2023 at 9:27 AM, Lorri said:

However, the latest experimental changes are horrible. I don't use that word lightly, either. You raise the price of an essential starter item. Why? Seriously, why?

I wouldn't call the Dew Collector "essential" although it is nice to have as a backup water supply. I played a few games through to Day 7 in the previous patch, and have done the same with the latest build. I did not bother with the Dew Collector in any of these plays. IME there is no real difficulty in finding water early, although one has to make some adjustments to their mind-set on how to play.

In Alpha 20 everyone was slurping down boiled water jars for fun, and would typically have a storage box full as backup that probably never got used, since POIs were overly generous with their offerings. The same does not apply in A21, and I gotta say I love it. Now one has to make that decision of whether they want to continue living, or drink fro that filthy, filthy river water. It has always an option to guzzle down the brown stuff, but with the abundance of jars everywhere, and the ease of which one could set up a campfire to boil it back into safety, this was never the chosen path. Early game in A21, you gotta risk the dystentry if you wanna. It's awesome.

Once one finds a cooking pot (and unless one is super lucky with their spawn, one prolly will not get one till one reach's a town) murky water found in POIs can be boiled to safety, and the local trader offers up both their own inventory of foodstuffs, as well as a couple of vending machines always stocked. You want fresh water, work for it or pay for it. Incidentally, of the multiple play-throughs, I've only ever spawned close to a town once, and (if one only follows the roads) it can been days before one reach's one. Looting the POI's along the way becomes a necessity, and that can only be a good thing. But yeah, there's always the death water in river XD

That said, I don't mind the price increase - in fact, I would reccomend they hiked it up further. Trader Joel's isn't a charity, after all. They have the most sought after item in a zedocaplyse world, an they are still practically giving it away.

 

 

On 6/18/2023 at 9:27 AM, Lorri said:

[The] new leveling system for tools, weapons, and crafting stations is a neat idea. I was concerned but reserved judgment until I played the game for myself. It was marvelous. So, you change it. lol The ONLY way to make better tools and weapons and to unlock crafting stations which is ESSENTIAL for progression of the game is by the skills bundle books or by finding the books in the world.

Again, wouldn't say the tool stations are "essential" here either. Later game, sure they can become a cheaper way to keep ammo supplies stocked up, but they are not a essential. In the playthroughs mentioned, while I did collect more than enough books to craft both Forge, and Workbench in most fo them, Inever bothered with that. It's an experimental build after all, so base-building is a secondary need (IMO) as finding bugs and issues through play takes priority.

In fact, I'd even go so far as to say collectiong magazine at all is not essential. I have often found that the other boosts offered by speccing into a skill far outshines the drop rate of the associated magazines. Since I've been maining Perception, take Sharp Sticks for example. Sure, I added a point into this with the first questline complete, and I did notice a higher rate of  drops for those magazine compared with it's counterparts, I have found that weapon drops (one of the other buffs) are always of a better rank that I could currently craft.

I found a lvl 2 stone spear on day one, a lvl 4 stone spear before I had unlocked level 2, and had a level 6 stone spear before I had unlocked level 3. The other drop is weapon parts, by the way - and I collected a nice pile of spear parts that I could not use at the time, but will be handy in future. Iron spears do not require the forge or workbenchto craft, and although they do require the Forged Iron there are enough places littered throughout the world to obtain more than enough without every forging any oneself.

Steel spears are another matter, since these require the workbench but the Steel Spear is the end-game weapon of the type, and an iron one should be more than servicable enough until one has a fully established base set up. 

 

On 6/18/2023 at 9:27 AM, Lorri said:

[G]uess how many I got as an option? 0. Bad luck? Perhaps. But, if I spec my points into certain perks, at least I can have a better chance to loot those books to level up what I want, right? Not anymore. I put 2 points into blades, 1 into miner 69'er, and 1 into advanced engineering. Wanna guess how many books I found of those?

I would say, bad luck most likely. Of the several play throughs I've ran through, I have not always obthered with trader quests (my current play I completed a total of one quest by Day 7 since the POI they wanted me to clear I had set up a temporary base in, and it took a while to move my stuff) but the first quest appears to alwys proffer up the book bundle. It's not every quest, sure (and less often would be fine IMO, since most players mistakenly prioritize the book bundle over anything else) but it is one extra option of obtaining books.

Others have suggested more possibilites, but one overlooked so far is - the air drops. Now, unless one has them disabled, these are (default) set to drop once every 3 days (I prefer to set them to 7 to coincide with horde night) and are guarenteed to include a book bundle along with whatever else is inside. Air drops have been buffed too. No longer does one get a level 1 wrench, a baked potato and a "better luck next time." Rather, once gets a level 1 wrench, a sham chowder, a book bundle, and some other stuff. I've tested this out a few times too. The rewards from air drops now are much better than A20, and always include that book bundle on top. 

 

On 6/18/2023 at 4:09 PM, Euzio said:

From what I see, the progression and difficulty is not scaling well. Players seem to be encountering ferals much earlier than you'd expect in quests. And the rewards seem to be quite lackluster the higher the tier you go in the latest update. Its doesn't make sense that rewards for a T4 quest are almost similar (sometimes worse) than a T2. The T4 rewards needed some nerfing but not to that extent. 

Depoending on whom you are watching on YouTube, I'd say encounterin Ferals early is normal. In fact, I am pretty sure I have encountered ferals early back in A20, so I do not think this is a "new thing" for A21. The only "new thing" I have noticed is once new POI that spawns a Screamer. However, this POI only spawn that screamer, si I would say this is intentional to give players an introduction to a mechanic they otherwise would not encounter until a higher level.

For the record, Tier 4 POIs are dropping Tier 2 quest rewards. This is a known issue, and will be fixed in the next experimental.