RhinoW
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Posts posted by RhinoW
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Currently it seems that the weapon zoom is just an FoV change, any chance this will get changed soon?
You can try it out for yourself, set your FoV to 50 and aim with any weapon, your "zoom" will increase your field of view. And if you set your FoV to max, you'll get a significant zoom, decreasing your field of view.
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Hey, so I started fiddling with xml files recently and I'm trying to figure stuff out by looking at other files, and I currently have a problem.
So I see that TFP have this commented out on the Power Attack group for the steel knuckles
I want to be able to re-add that variable on my own xml, how would I be able to do that?
EDIT: Problem solved, just found it out.
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A reminder that ever since the perks got majorly reworked (A17 I believe), every weapon has been treated as its own weapon type. Meaning there should not be a weapon to rule them all, but rather multiple melee approaches. Prior to that, clubs, the iron sledge and the machete (I guess you could also argue the hunting knife) were the only held items that were focused on combat. The knives had the same attack speed as everything else and did terrible damage, and were just there to be used as harvest tools. The iron sledge and the machete were rare endgame tools that were opposites to one another, and I should also mention there was no power attack.
So, with that said, in today's version of the game, no weapon should feel weaker than another one, but different. Which, for some weapons its not the case.
1. There's a missing tier for the batons
2. Baton unique perk effect only works on the t2 baton, because its the only one (out of the two) that electrifies targets.
3. Machete functions very differently because its not a knife, but still you are expected to stack bleed with it. The steel club deals massively more damage than the machete, while maintaining pretty much the same attack speed and a negligible difference in stamina cost, on top of scaling off Pummel Pete, each at max rank gives you 100% knockdown chance on power attack, and 200% damage on knockedown targets.
4. Fists attack slower than knives
5. Fists deal less damage than knives
6. Fists use more stamina than knives
7. Fists HAVE MORE RANGE than knives
8. The AUTO shotgun is not auto, and has a fire rate of 1.16 rounds per second while the pump shotgun has a fire rate of 1 rounds per second
9. The SMG is part of the PISTOL tree and scales off the gunslinger perk....every 3 shots you get double damage on the next one.
You guys try to make sense out of that.
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7 hours ago, Renathras said:
I could understand if there's an advanced Dew Collector/Moisture Farm Condenser (thank you, Tatooine) that uses electricity but generates more water. That might even make sense and be progression into the late game as an item you could build anywhere.
...but a piece of plastic that just catches ambient moisture, uses no electricity, and has no heat source?
This seems to just be them trying to force the "You WILL raid, you WILL quest, and you WILL like it!" on people against their will, which is just stupid. Let people play the damn game the way they want. That was the beauty of this game when I first picked it up a decade-ish ago. You could kind of do what you wanted and play how you wanted. You could loot and raid, or you could bunker up and craft. I was worried when they added Trader quests that they were going to eventually push down this route of it not merely being the optimal way to progress your character (it is) but eventually be the REQUIRED way to progress your character. When they made the zombies able to chew through concrete, steel, and ore with ease, it as already leaning that way. When they made the best items only available by looting and not by crafting (even low tier equipment), it was leaning that way.
But the water and farming and especially skillbook changes seem to be designed just to stick it to people that like the crafting and building aspects of the game to force them into engaging with the questing/looting content, where before players could choose how they wanted to play. Since someone mentioned D&D, it'd be like if the GM insisted everyone play a character that uses magic - or that doesn't - or something instead of letting the players express themselves the way they choose to play the game.I really just want to make a personal appreciation for this post. As it is very much spot on with what happened to the game. Ever since A17 this has become a looter shooter, anyone who disagrees, I'm sorry to say, but you're in denial. The basebuilding/defense is 30/70 with the questing/looting, because you're not scavenging for materials anymore, you're rushing a PoI for that sweet end of dungeon loot. Pair that up with perks, a constant trader market requirement (cemented with the dew collector now), and it's more fallout than 7 days to die now. But still, not a bad game by any means as I mentioned in another post.
Alas, it is their vision of the game, and I just hope we get proper modding tools to add completely custom stuff in the future, without any jankyness or weird limitations, until then, I'll remain optimistic. But I really hope they don't release the game and keep modding and lack of polish the way it is.
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6 minutes ago, warmer said:
I play solo and often have my forge/campfire/dew collector running.
day 14 and I haven't had a single screamer from heat yet. Everyone is blowing this WAY out of proportion. If you have a dozen water collectors expect a ramp up in difficult do to cheesing mechanics. Seems fair to me.
Well I play with 300% XP and block damage, so we ramp up on gamestage, maybe that has to do with it. I'm also constantly doing stuff whenever I'm at base, it's a sh*t ton of noise always and we get screamers pretty often 😛
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13 hours ago, warmer said:
This is an interesting change. Lots of ways to deal with it. I think any free resource production should have some influence in how noticable this is for all aggressive entities. For the simple fact that you can easily cheese this in MP and become the king of water and duct tape on the server. You get get ridiculous dukes from selling that with no upper limit.
Also this makes perfect sense if you add Bandits and their heatmap to this concept. Those npc types I am sure would take note of a clean water source in their area. This places water into an area of concern when defending. Right now mine is just sitting out in the open.
I mean, you just described the problem that TFP created with the addition of dew collectors, the moment you add a passive resource generator that has no limit, what do you expect people to do? Of course they're gonna buy a water filter every chance they get, its the only way to not die of thirst now, people are going to "abuse" it, or in other words, use it for its literal purpose, and be "kings of water".
But unlike the campfire, the forge, mining and anything else in the game that generates heat, this one is not optional nor "stoppable", unless you count leaving the dew full, but that's the same as saying to just use the chamber round instead of the magazine to make the weapon more balanced when missing a shot, the weapon was made to use the full magazine.
So, again, unlike anything else, this one is perpetual and mandatory. You don't need the forge up and running 24/7, even though we all leave it melting resources, you don't need the campfire up and running, but we all leave it cooking some long duration food, you're not always using the workbench, but when you do, you're either doing active crafts or leaving a vehicle to be crafted. You're actively doing it, by your own hand, to do something that you don't really require to survive, but it sure as hell increases your chances.
The dew collector on the other hand, is always there, and is mandatory to be there, considering how little water it provides on its own, with you outside or inside the base. I also play MP with 3 other friends, and never did we even think of selling water nor being "kings of water" with 4 dew collectors on our base. There's no point in selling water first of all, as getting dukes is easy. What you described is simply not a reality, there's no "cheesing" it, the cheese is the trader itself. Alas, I got no problems with this change, as we constantly get screamers on our base anyways, and its free XP.
I agree with the bandits part, but zombies have no concept of economy, they just follow noise and activity, the dew collector makes no sense from that standpoint. But again, we all know realistic sense isn't the point here, it's a game design choice, but one that doesn't address the problem, and simply creates a distraction from it and drawback. Like nerfing a firearm by giving a 20% chance of dysentry with each shot instead of making it rarer, or more expensive or rebalancing its stats.
And yeah, there are multiple ways to deal with this new change. 7.62 to the head, crossbow bolt, sledgehammer, pistol magdump...etc
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6 hours ago, meganoth said:
You are not thinking about the many ways this game is played. In our co-op game water was and is an issue, at the local trader we could only buy 3 filters. Enough to make sure, we never needed to drink from a lake, but not enough for our glue production at the same time. So we still bought water from the trader and finally went to a second trader to buy more collectors.
In my SP game I just started a new base somewhere else and since I haven't found time to go back I actually bought new filters. At the moment I am short on glue again.
I do think about the different ways the game is played, and all of them require you to buy water filters from the trader, to create a machine that will give you small amounts of water overtime, requiring you to get more filters to have a sustainable income.
And yes, like I said, the only problem now, is glue, not really grasping for water to survive. This new system simply delays the water abundance and decreases it to relatively "normal" levels. But it's nothing that the older system couldn't do with tweaks.
6 hours ago, meganoth said:I you think THAT would be fun, then we have very different opinions about fun. Making stacks small so everyone has to do click-marathons in their inventory is a game mechanic for masochists.
I don't see how it would be any different than what it is now. You rarely find more than 10 murky water on your expeditions, at least I rarely do. And why would a stack of 10 be a click marathon? So I guess making yucca juice or coffee is a click marathon because water is made in stacks of 10? It doesn't add up.
And yes it would be more fun, because before I actually had a reason to make a bucket (multiple actually) and collect water.
Previously:
- Recycle jars
- 1. Find refillable stations or snow
- 2. Create refillable stations next to your base by crafting a bucket and getting water
- Refill jars
- Boil water
Now:
- Do quests to get dukes, as you would anyways
- Spend those dukes asap to get a water filter
- Make dew collector
- Wait
- Ocasionally boil the murky water you find during your expeditions
6 hours ago, meganoth said:And you probably would disallow filling the jars from open water like lakes, right? If not, all that would be easily circumvented.
But without getting water from lakes it probably would work. Though TFP also wanted to remove jars. So they went with a different solution
I wouldn't, that's the main reason why finding a lake was a godsent before. That's the whole point of finding a lake.
And it's not "easily circumvented", you have to find a lake first, and either craft buckets and bring some water blocks with you, or use up gas to do water refill trips.
If you think lakes would be an issue, simply add another tier of contamination to the water, that would require more than boiling. Remember the water purification tablets? I member. Or straight up make that a requirement to purify water, making it harder, but still a possibility.
There are soo many ways to get the best out of both worlds, so many ways to balance the water, instead of adding what's essentially a city simulator wait-to-get-resource mechanic.
All in all, I'm not displeased with this update, I'm completely neutral about it, but you can't deny it's a dumbed down version of a survival mechanic. The issue should be getting drinkable water, not getting murky water. And right now, they're equally as easy to get, by how simple it is to boil it. Murky water is the equivalent to a seed atm, but way faster to get the intended resource.
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4 hours ago, meganoth said:
The main character does not throw away jars. He simply has always enough jars and containers so that he always can store water he finds.
Just like he always has access to containers for gasoline. Just like he always can store food somewhere where it doesn't simply get smashed.
But those containers are not simulated or shown. Just like it isn't shown when you use the bathroom, or crafting isn't shown except as a timer that ticks down.
The water from lakes is viewed as so toxic that the character won't take any of it. Except he might drink it in an emergency. This part is surely not realistic and can't really be explained fully, just like the existence of zombies. You just have to accept it. The game is not a simulation, fun trumps realism.
Well, before it was more fun than it is now, as I actually used jars to get water rather than have it wait for me at base. The new system only made water an issue the first 2 days, and now it's back to what it was previously, minus the duct tape spam.
I think people are completely forgetting what made water broken in the first place.
1 - You could have stacks beyond 100 for murky water and empty jars, when it should've been way way lower
2 - You could right click a SINGLE water block with the 100s of empty jar, and get 100s of murky water, when it should've been 1:1 not 1:current held amount.
To fix water abundance, and keep the game realistic AND fun, all TFP had to do was:
1. Make the stacks of murky water and empty jars 10.
2. Make each right click on a water source fill only 1-2 jars
3. Remove loot from toilets and turn them into possible refill stations (flush toilet container has a chance of containing water)
4. Make jars, empty or filled, rare.
5. Bring back something similar to the cans, where you could only have stacks of 1, but they are easy to craft until you have a forge to make your own glass jars.
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Good list! Also there's already a copy rotation option on the radial menu.
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On 4/19/2023 at 11:47 PM, Riamus said:
I didn't say no upgrade route. I said no upgrade route using blocks. You would upgrade using resources, as we do now. I don't see any needed to allow using blocks to upgrade. They are too easy to get from quests and air drops as you level up. Just my opinion on it, though. It would not bother me if it was an option. I just don't see any reason to change how that works.
You never have to rebuild your base. You just grab a hammer or nail gun and upgrade. Pretty easy with a nail gun, imo. You always have the option of creating a new base with blocks if you choose or waiting until you have the higher tier blocks before building, or you can just upgrade as you go.
Game design didn't have to mimic reality at all times. This isn't a simulation. There is no reason why they can't require you to upgrade from wood to cobblestone to concrete to steel as they do now. If you allow directly upgrading from wood to steel, then you eliminate any need to gather materials for the cobblestone and concrete intermediate upgrades, thereby having them pointless. It is the same as the change they are making to get players to actually go through all tiers of weapons and tools and armor instead of instantly jumping to tier 3 from tier 1. They want progression and not skipping stages. This is a good thing.
Using blocks to upgrade with instead of resources is not about the cost of making blocks... You gain nothing by doing it that way. It is about wanting to use quest rewards and air drops (easy to get) instead of gathering resources (time consuming... somewhat - cobblestone is extremely easy to make with little time or effort unless you need a ton of it). Skipping stages of construction is also about wanting to avoid gathering resources and just skipping most of the work. Gathering resources is part of the game and there isn't any reason to remove the need to do so.
And what does a sledgehammer have to do with any of this? There is no reason to destroy blocks when you need to upgrade unless you don't like where the block is located, which has nothing to do with these suggestions.
Steel is really the only upgrade that takes real effort. If you collect all the palettes of cobblestone and concrete (and stone if you want) as you quest right from the start of the game, you should have plenty when you are ready to build and upgrade your base unless you build very large bases.
I think you're missing his entire point. He's talking about being able to use his reward on his already built base. If his base is already built with cobblestone, he should be able to upgrade the cobblestone blocks with his concrete blocks instead of having to make concrete mix. Forcing him to only be able to use concrete mix to upgrade blocks, makes the 500 concrete block quest reward useless (yes, it is useless if he already has his base layout the way he wants).
Basically:
1 wood block = 10 wood
1 cobblestone block = 10 cobblestone rocks
1 concrete block = 10 concrete mix
1 steel block = 10 steel
And you should be allowed to use one or the other to upgrade your base.
You're also forgetting that crafting the blocks takes very long the higher their tier is, so even though it is the same amount of resources, it is by far wayyy slower than just upgrading your blocks with a nailgun, so there's the drawback.
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I'd argue that the problem isn't machines not accepting cash, but the fact that finding dukes in containers is nowhere near the same as it was in prior alphas. I think a bigger focus on lucky looter and wasteland treasures for finding dukes in containers, as well as a minor boost to duke spawns in containers (like before) would be the right way to fix it. Considering that I'm nearing day 35, and haven't looted a single candy buff, I can see how vending machines are useful.
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16 hours ago, stallionsden said:
You entered an attack volume simple.
A volume introduced as a counter to stealth each play style has a counter reaction.
I and another player I know can stealth attack volumes to. So ....
They were not made with the intent to "counter" stealth, they were literally made because of limitations and performance reasons. And no, you can't "stealth" an attack volume, unless you have meta knowledge (knowledge that you wouldn't get by finding it out intuitively, but rather from outside the game or testing in a technical experiment) and decide to stand still when a zombie is literally running towards you. Anyone would always assume that a bunch of zombies spawning, making noise, and running towards you, are going to attack you because they know where you are.
Closet zombies aren't really the problem, as they are already spawned in and generally follow stealth rules. The problem is high tier PoIs with unintuitive "alerted" spawns, like the infamous jail ambush that was discussed in another thread.
And no, each play style does not have a counter reaction, at least not in such an intrusive and invisible manner like this.
Every tree can wipe out a PoI, some with more ease and others with less ease depending on your gear and perks, so that puts them all on a relatively even ground when going loud on a PoI.
Every tree has a weakness if you just level that tree alone, but agility is a combat focused tree, it literally has nothing else going for it, why would you nerf the only thing that tree does? What other counters do other trees have that the agility doesn't also have? Except agility suddenly has an extra "counter" that is not related to player's gear choice and gameplay, a bit weird no? Stealth is part of the game for everyone, but somehow you get punished by focusing on the stealth tree that improves stealth? It's obviously not intended.
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14 hours ago, meganoth said:
The most simple answer: Because it was one of the promises in the kickstarter. And if kickstarter promised a story as well, bandits aka NPCs make that possible as well.
Ahh, fair enough then, understandable.
2 hours ago, H7dek7 said:I 100% agree. Most if not all TFP's excuses have been debunked by the modding community. Until A20 I haven't used mods in 7DTD, but had to just because of farm plots. For me playing survival games is all about immersion. Each and every big update 7DTD goes further away from simulation and closer to arcade. I've been playing 7DTD since the single digits (A7 I think) and since A17 I'm more reluctant every time my friends want to come back to this game.
Very, very true. I started playing in A12/13, can't recall, and to be fair, so far, ever since A17, A21 has been my favourite "new age" alpha, and one that I really don't have much criticism about, other than some balacancing and feature polishing, aaand things I've been wanting for a long time now, but as far as what A21 does, I got no complaints for the most part.
For me, A16 was 7 days to die identity peak, but people forget this is an early access game, we all should know what we signed up for. And at the end of the day, it's the devs view of their own game, not just what we want.
Truth be told, the game has never been better from a technical standpoint, and while it strays from the mood it once had, it's not a bad game by any means, just an unfinished one with a new direction that's more arcadey and fallout-styled (if I recall, madmole is a fallout and fallout 4 fan).
4 hours ago, Scyris said:Oh don't give me that, if a single modder can do it in a short time (less than a week working an hour or 2 a day or so), tfp has no excuse. Darkness Falls completly tosses vanilla's stat system in the garbage (where it should be imo) each alpha, and I believe its very easy for him it implement it everytime the game updates. This proves the coding to support it still exists from when it was in a16.4, if it wasn't it'd be much harder to be put in, still doable, just be more work, going from a16.4's system to the a18 stat system was probally way more work than if they just fixed the 2-3 issues with the a16.4 system, yet instead of fixing the few small issues it had they decided to redo it from scratch.
As for balancing it.
skill levels 1, 20, 40, 60, 80 are level 1,2,3,4,5 of a perk like pummel pete, miner 69'er, motherload etc. To balance headshot damage. look at what the bonus is at 10 in the stat, and set it as a range from 1 skill to 100 skill. with 0 skill being equil to 1 stat, and 100 skill being whatever the stat at 10 would have (this can be done, many aspects of the game already use this system). You could also make the action skill give a bit of damage, and a bit faster reload that stacks on top of the perks, but that could come later.
The point is just because mods exist aren't an excuse for the devs to bascially ignore what the playerbase. I'm tired of 7dtd devs using mods as a excuse as to why they don't have X feature, give us a real reason. Your not making a game just for yourselves devs, your making it to try to appeal to players to buy it, need to learn to cave on some things for the sake of players.
Good example is the whole needing farm plots, Devs say its because you can't hoe the ground due to some technical reason with the way the game handles biomes or something (I forget exactly what it was but it was along these lines), yet multiple mods have shown it can easly be done and it works fine. Whats the excuse now? As your technical reason was just debunked since modders were able to do it without a problem, calling it a "hacky" way doesn't matter, what matters is it was easly done, by some modder in his home on his own. TFP in this case made a choice, thats the only reason it "needed" to be changed. BTW DF also has the farm plots, you can use either way to grow crops, either hoeing the ground or using farm plots.. See players like choices? Some like the farm plots in DF, me? I just hoe the ground.
One of my biggest gripes is TFP keeps removing choice from the player, A21 with the sex t-rex thing is a prime example, why not add it to the weapon lines as they did, but also leave sex t-rex in? so players could choose to invest in sex t-rex to get all around stam reduction, or could choose to ignore it and focus on their chosen stat/weapon. I know what i'd choose, I'd choose to get sex t-rex in str, as its more efficent, as even maxing the stam reduction in ONE weapon or tool line now costs over double the perk points maxing sex t-rex used to cost that effected every weapon or tool. Its just gone from being efficent to super inefficent as hell from a20 to a21.
I can relate to how p*ssed you are, but I've just accepted that this is how the game plays out now, and we won't be getting A16 back. We should just look forward to see how we can improve the new systems and build off from that.
As for the farmplots, it's really a meaningless thing, as they are not as expensive to craft now (I think, I play with 300% XP and 300% damage so I'm not very aware of other settings). My biggest gripe is the absolutely stupid logic behind living off the land, where you require tier 2 to have a sustainable farm. Last time I mentioned this, the reason for this was "so seeds you find is juist food you can grow", which means "Potato seed = potato that you have to wait for", and that is the most artificial difficulty/economy barrier I've ever seen in my life, why not just give me the potato then?
Now, skill talk. Besides some perks needing a rework/tweak, I do believe the biggest issue with the current system is the main attribute system. All it does is give you dismemberment chance and headshot damage for weapons affected by that tree, which uninspiring, boring and uncharacteristic of the tree. Not to mention, you have to waste your points, to break the gatekeep of the perks that require X attribute level. The reason this works in fallout 4 (the only fallout that allows you to alocate perk points into SPECIAL stats), is because you can choose what to spec as you create your character, and are not forced to start with all of them at 1. Just imagine fallout 4 but you start with 1 SPECIAL stat, and have to work your way to even get the required points for a perk, that has levels itself. That's 7 days to die perk system atm, but for some reason later levels cost 2 and 3 points.
I would either allow the player to allocate attribute points when he creates the world (15 points for example) and then create more variety of perks and rebalance their values.
Or, I would have a LBD system that only affects attributes so relevant actions improve points in that category.
Strength - Harvesting, using shotguns, using clubs, using sledgehammers
Perception - Scoring headshots, using rifles, using spears, looting
Fortitude - Using fist weapons, using machineguns, taking damage, running
Agility - Using bows, using knives, using pistols, jumping, sneaking/sneak attack
Intellect - Crafting, healing, bartering, questing, using batons, using turrets
This way your attributes naturally adapt to your playstyle, considering that now everyone can have a pipe version of their skill's weapon early on very easily. If you fully focus on one thing, you're going to excel at it, and will be maxed out at like day 7, allowing you to focus your perk points on...the perks. Obviously we would need some form of XP nerf or have some perks require 2 points instead of 1 through all levels, things like that.
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54 minutes ago, NekoPawtato said:
I remember that one, but that one is just a trigger that "happens". I meant like the player pressing the button connecting to TNT or igniting a fire hazard to blow up a gas tank.
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1. You're choosing to ignore mobility, which is the main aspect of agility.
2. Of course a shotgun and a machinegun is going to outclass a pistol on horde night, what do you expect. But can non agility players stay outside of their base and kite zombies without getting caught for a while? No. Can they stealth their way through a building late-game like an agility player? No.
3. Perception is largely worse than anything else simply because you don't keep constant pressure, like you said, it's good for teamplay, while agility is great for solo play.
4. Ah yes, fists are good...but only if you are under the effects of a buff that you can only consistently get with a Leveled Cooking Book, Farming Perk, and Seed Book and with certain Bar Brawling perks.
5. Like I said, I got no idea about the bleed in this current alpha, so I'll take your word for it.
6. The medieval stealth weapon excels at stealth, but gets a penalty when fighting a horde, who would've thought. Mainlining a bow against a horde night without explosive arrows, gets you the result that you should've expected to begin with. There's a reason explosive arrows exist, and that's precisely for horde nights so you can use the bow.
7. You're right about hidden strike, it's mostly used with silenced weapons that don't have such a high sneak multiplier, but largely an overlooked perk until you need it.
8. Custom fittings is not made for light armor, it is made for heavy armor because light armor already does what the mod does but 100x better.
9. I don't think agility really falls late game, at least from my experience and how I play the game. And remember, specing on a tree means you excel with that weapon, it doesn't mean you're locked from using others.
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I think you're looking for a different game in some of these changes.
I've been playing AGI, for the last 3 alphas and I'd argue it's one of the stronger, if not the strongest tree out of all of them. I haven't speced or used knives in this alpha, but the agility tree has some of the best perk value of any tree. I still remember when I tried fortitude agility last alpha, and I quickly realized how terrible the fist weapons were.
1. Bleed stacking is fine if it's still the same as a20, doesn't really need a buff IMO.
2. Gunslinger is busted with an auto 9mm pistol on max rank,
3. Bow master is decent, and bows and crossbows are simply godlike on their own (I haven't put points into hidden strike, and my crossbow does the work easily).
4. Run and gun is easily the best combat perk in the game, because it removes the thing that gets you killed half the time early on. Reloading.
5. Parkour is useful for the most part and straight up busted at max rank, there's no way you're dying in an open area or in a bloodmoon.
6. Hidden Strike is a direct buff to the bows.
7. From The Shadows is very useful when it works, it only doesn't get its full perk value because of how sleepers are terribly handled.
8. Crafts are not tied with perks anymore, only the chances to find the magazines, and imo should stay as such, the light armor perk is insanely good and will keep you up and running from most zombies.
9. I would argue that the attack speed buff should be higher than what it is now, but that's about it.
10. Flaming arrows do suck, but I don't know if a bleed arrow would be any better. Considering fire stops radiated regeneration I think, and looks way cooler.
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Gas requirement of 50 for the crafting recipe.
I think the recipe is outdated considering the new gas changes no?
I mean... 300 gas for a single molotov? 😅
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2 hours ago, meganoth said:
One idea to make the wilderness a bit more interesting may be if TFP added some "danger" that makes having a permanent crafting base in cities difficult again. But I don't think that is a priority to them. They want to finish the game and apart from bandits there will not be many new features coming before release.
I might be a minority here, but I really think bandits is possibly one of the worst things to add to the game. It will 100% take a bunch of time to make, needing more complex AI and animations than the zombies, and it will come with its fair share of bugs until it is fixed, which will take up more time.
Time that could be used to focus on the main selling points of this game, which is the sandbox exploration and tower defense/7 day horde and polishing it. Why would they add something the game clearly doesn't need? Hats of to them for going with the duke storyline and having all that cool concept art and most likely really neat end game ideas in the backlog, but isn't that essentially shifting the focus of the game into 2 major parts? Bandits/Storyline and Zombies? When the game has always been about the zombies and surviving them? Only recently (in comparison to how many alphas there are) did the trader actually become something core to the gameplay rather than an elusive spawn on the map.
So many things that still need to be looked into (and I know some of these are already confirmed)
- Stealth and sleepers
- Combat and fluidity (recoil, animations, weapon swapping, hit reactions)
- Gore and VFX update (ex: zombie cop puke)
- Sound update and vehicle physics/controls
- Player character and armor
- New mods/Mod visuals/Mod rebalance
- Swimming
- Biome/PoI identity and zombie variants (remember the frostbitten zombies from previous alphas?)
- Special infected (we need new ones, some for bloodmoons, some for PoIs, some for both, and with very distinct abilities to make the player have to think about their base building)
- Blood Moon spawns (currently it's just shoot the bullet sponges that decide to focus on a single block until the demolisher comes which then punishes you from shooting a horde)
7 days to die is the only PVE survival zombie game out there that is able to differentiate itself from others and actually innovate, rather than being a reskin of your average survival game with X setting. Why would they go the route of adding bandits, to, let's be real, an already buggy game with its current AI. Never once in my life did I think "Damn, this game really needs human enemies".
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4 minutes ago, hiemfire said:
Then why is it in the game?
Like Str running shotguns, just with much lower damage and more bouncing off of the ceilings due to parkour being full power at all times?
They are.
More like learn by dying or meta-knowledge of how the game works thanks to being on the dev team.
I think we can all agree neither the stealth nor the sleeper behavior is intuitive atm and they need a rework sometime in the future. Just yesterday I stood literally in front of a standing sleeper, and got him silently, as well as missing shots on sleepers laying down and none of them waking up. But I might be 10 blocks away from a sleeper group, and all it takes is an invisible trigger that I would never know its there until I replay that PoI, that sends the zombies raging into my exact location. Which is, by all means, meta-knowledge.
Alas, let's not all pretend that this is a big priority atm, I'm really only forced to go guns blazing like 25% of a PoI, anything else is just me not having enough damage to clear out a specific spawn and end up having to mag dump it. And generally I would get bored stealthing every PoI from start to finish, and I would never expect a t4-5 one to not have something screwed up in the middle.
Exploration has never been more fun and interactive, I was skeptical about the new hazards when I saw the switch literally next to one on my first encounter, but all it took was that one PoI where you have 3 of them that lead to different pipelines to make me realize just how great of an idea it was to add those interactibles to the map. New buttons to open doors and trigger events and all these reworked PoIs are nothing short of a really good level design. (Shoutout to the dance floor on the lake wedding PoI).
Seriously hope they double down on this in the future and add like toxic spores, blocks that require you to break them, event explosions. triggered hordes like the prison one but something that makes sense. It's all very reminiscent of left 4 dead events and I absolutely love it.
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Zombies don't start spawned in for performance reasons, that's why you can shoot outside and only the ones that are spawned will react.
With that said, I do belive there are problems inside of the buildings, and some could be fixed by having more intuitive reactions and more randomness to it.
Hidden sleepers should have a chance to do something whenever the player is nearby and not right in front of them. There should be wider triggers that determine that the player is there, and then spawns the sleepers, rather than spawning the zombies in an alerted state.
Zombies should never spawn alerted near the player, and sleeper activations should be:
1. Noise trigger - If the player is within this area an makes noise above a certain threshold, all sleepers connected to it are awoken. Or if a wandering zombie detects the player inside this very same trigger.
2. Random chance - If the player is within an area, there should be a chance a sleeper will break out of their closet and become roamers, forcing the player to break line of sight to avoid alerting the other sleepers.
3. Triggered alert - Essentially what we have now at some final rooms, pass a certain block and all hell breaks loose. But by all means, the zombies should already be spawned in. And I do belive this one shouldn't be used too often.
Zombies should only spawn alerted if:
1. The player makes noise in a specific noise trigger, spawning an optional horde that comes from the ouside of the PoI or from a place deep enough into the PoI that allows the player to at aleast hear them coming.
2. It's the final room and whatever action you're going to do would surely have zombies coming to it (ex: that hidden test chamber beneath a mansion), but again, if they're too close, they should already be spawned (ex: small house on the top floor).
But besides spawns and alerts, there's some things that would be good to have:
- Directional sleeper sounds, like very faint breaths, even more faint if they're inside a closet, requiring you to almost facehug the closet. And to be fair, more idles sounds overall for the zombies, they're very quiet.
- Openable closet doors, instead of those breakable plates. It doesn't make sense that I can waste an arrow to break something, I should be forced to open it if I want to check what's near. But I also should be able to sneak past it, making it a trap for later when I return to loot with full confidence.
Better and more realistic sleeper spawns:
- One or two wandering "sleepers", essentially scouts that would make stealth more difficult.
- Removal of standing sleepers in the middle of nowhere (aka free XP zombies). Seriously, these add nothing and just look ridiculous, the only standing sleepers should be hidden in closets and enclosured spaces, never out in the open.
- Removal of triggered "alerts" on things like bathrooms and closets, instead, keep the zombie there, force me to have to take a look or trust that there's nothing because I didn't open it. I can tell that those bathroom zombies would be much more effective if they didn't trigger as soon as I entered the bathroom door, but rather waited for me to make the slightest noise upon opening a container or opening the toilet door to find them there.
- Sleeper blocks, like an upside down couch that has a zombie below it, a 1.5 blocks tall vent that breaks and has a zombie crawling out of it (since they can now do that)...etc
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On 6/25/2023 at 1:30 AM, Jugginator said:
Here ya go. I was lazy and just kinda showing how the breadcrumb works and just used god mode to clear out debuffs at that one point, I made an effort to show how that system works with stealth toying with the zombies a bit. But, as you can see, it does indeed work. You just can't go crouch and expect the zombies to lose you in these cases.
IMO stealth is almost at the point of being broken and needing a nerf.
Didn't know this was possible lmao, I always assumed the zombie sprinting dead on towards me knew where I was.
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On 6/18/2023 at 1:39 PM, david01228 said:
I made a video to explain what is happening. This is not the zombies making a stealth check, but the zombies being awake. Here is the YT link for the video so you can see.
Holy @%$#, so this is what happened to me and my friends when we were doing this PoI. We had one on the snow biome and we had pretty decent gamestage. The first horde completely erradicated us because we got like 2 radiated cops, a bunch of radiated zombies and feral wights out of nowhere. Really scummy they spawn behind as well.
Man I'm fairly certain, the performance hit would be less if they just spawned 5 sleepers ahead normally. Especially when you reach the cells, I dropped to like 10FPS with the amount of radiated feral wights that spawned down there, not even joking.
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[NEW QUEST TYPES]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Extermination]Quest goals and description:
- Replaces/Merges both Clear Zombies and Infestation
- The player must clear the designated PoI by eliminating all targets.
- Extermination quests will have different variants that change the spawns, some being unique to specific PoIs and locations and some only being available after a certain tier.
- Variants will vary in reward as well as the quest tier.
Quest variants/modifiers:Normal : Similar behavior to what we have now, zombies will be based on gamestage/difficulty..etc
Feral Outbreak: A great portion of zombies has been replaced with feral counterparts.
Radiated Outbreak: A great portion of zombies has been replaced with radiated counterparts.Vulture Nest: A great portion of zombies has been replaced with vultures, unique to open air PoIs.
Dog Nest: A great portion of zombies has been replaced with zombie dogs.Special Outbreak: A great portion of zombies has been replaced with special infected.
or unique outbreaks for some
Spider Infestation: A great portion of zombies has been replaced with Spider Zombie
Military Outbreak: A great portion of zombies has been replaced with Military Zombie, unique to military PoIs. (More or less just characteristic of the place you're going to)
Wight Outbreak: A great portion of zombies has been replaced with Feral Wight---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Seek & Destroy / Apex Hunt]
Quest goals and description:
- The player must find and kill a specific target.
- Said target is not marked on the PoI and has to be found
- The target is also usually surounded by relevant enemies to its tier and location.Quest variants/modifiers:
Tier I+ - Apex Normal Zombie; Apex Vulture; Apex Zombie Dog
Tier II+ - Apex Screamer; Apex Spider
Tier III+ - Apex Tough Zombie; Apex Mutated Zombie
Tier IV+ - Apex Bear; Apex Cop
Tier V - Apex Wight; Apex Demolisher(I know you're confused, but I'll make a new article soon about the apex versions of zombies and my personal thoughts about existing zombies).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[Fortify and Defend]
Quest goals and description:
- A multi phased quest that ends with a decent sized horde so the player can have mini defense experiences outside of blood moons.
- First objective will require the player to clear the PoI, however, zombie count is reduced significantly
- Second objective will require the player to place spcecific blocks on highlighted areas (pre-made for that PoI), these blocks can be a wooden shape or spikes.
- Third objective will require the player to repair or upgrade windows or something alike, never going beyond wood tier.
- Fourth objective will require the player to start the generator when they're ready.
- Final objective is surviving the spawned horde.Notes:
- Zombie spawns for both the PoI and the horde follow the normal spawning scaling.
- This quest will never send you to a big PoI.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Supply Run]
Quest goals and description:
- Replaces the Fetch quest
- The player has to go through multiple containers and get different "supplies", not just a single "White River Supplies".
- These supplies are relevant to the quest's PoI. (ex: a military location would have military supplies like weapons, ammo, armor; a working stiffs would have material supplies, tool supplies..etc)
- The supplies can spawn in any relevant lootable container
- The containers are not pinpointed on the compass, but will start blinking when the player is near one.
- This is a scavenging quest that makes the player run through the PoI in search of the needed items.
- Higher quest tiers follow bigger and more dangerous locations, increasing the amount of required items.
- Rewards have a higher chance to be relevant to the quest variant.Quest variant examples:
Food Supplies
Electrical Supplies
Medical Supplies
Material Supplies
Military Supplies
ValuablesQuest goal example:
Example 1:
0/4 - Food Supplies
0/1 - Medical SuppliesExamples 2:
0/5 - Weapon Supplies
0/3 - Ammo Supplies---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Guarded Valuables]Quest goals and description:
- Similar to the fetch quest.
- The player has to go through one of many locked safes pinpointed on the compass.
- One of the safes will have the necessary item the trader wants.- Gets increasingly more difficult through the tiers, especially if you get sent into the big tower building.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Special "Quest"]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Daily Requirements]
- A secondary quest that is started immediately upon being accepted.
- The quest consists of the player gathering and delivering X amount of specific resources to the trader until the end of the day.
- The duke rewards are less than if the player were to sell them, but the XP and extra rewards make up for it.Quest goal example:
0/20 Mechanical Parts
0/2 Headlights
0/500 Gas can
0/5 Water
0/1 Meat Stew---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Existing quest changes]
[Restore Power]
- Starting a generator spawns a horde of enemies in X radius (perhaps outside of the PoI?)
- Higher tiers have more generators to start while also spawning stronger zombies.(I got no idea if that's how the restore power currently works, but the wiki doesn't have much info on it).
Let me know what you think! I always like discussing game design with people
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6 hours ago, Jost Amman said:
In my opinion, they should (to the least) up the durability of the next tier by 100%, and maybe lower the stone tier durability by 50%.
That way you have something which is "better" which breaks every time, versus something that's slightly worse, but that you have to repair once a day.
That's also kind of realistic, isn't it?
After all, it's like fighting zombies with sticks, or fighting them with a durable, full steel, machete.
Durability is not an issue in this game, especially for stone stuff. It's a near instant repair that costs 1 of very easy stuff to get. I would only be skeptical of using something if they required parts to repair, but if I'm not mistaken, nearly everything is repaired with the repair kit. Though I do agree that the difference should be more radical like you said.
I do think there's a middle ground, like meganoth said, there could be a tier damage value nerf, or like riamus said, have more specific requirements for mods.
To be fair, I agree with both of their ideas. And I personally would handle the situation like this:
1. Have the quality disparity/requirements increase based on tier:
- Stone tools would require 10 magazines to reach max quality, while the following tiers would require exponentially more.
- However, also make the qualities have different percentage gains based on tier +3%/5%/7%
- This makes sure that stone tools are average all around (as they should) and the max tier has significant upgrades between qualities, which also take longer to reach, extending the endgame and buffing the early game to mid game progression by getting into tier 2 weapons.
2. Rebalance mods to tie with both quality and tier:
- Stone 1-2 quality would not allow any mods, while 3-4 quality allows 1 and 5 quality would allow 2
- Iron 1-2 quality would allow 1 mod, 3-4 quality allows 2, and 5 quality allows 3
- Steel 1-2 quality allows 2, 3-4 quality allows 3, 5 quality allows 4
- Quality 6 weapons would allow 4 at all times to prevent people from not being able to use their favorite gun (4 is the max right? genuinely can't remember)
Something along these lines, I just wrote this in a few minutes, but each weapon be it tier or quality, would feel very different from each other.
5
[A21] Re-Balanced - Weapons
in Mods
Posted · Edited by RhinoW (see edit history)
I'm gonna start a collection of modlets that will aim to rebalance the game in my vision of what I think is too weak, too strong, or boring.
"Re-Balanced - Weapons" aims to make changes to the game's weapons and tools.
Notorious changes as of v2.0:
- Pipe Machinegun has had its durability nerfed.
- Auto shotgun is now an automatic shotgun, with less damage.
- Tactical Assault Rifle is no longer a burst weapon, instead it got a steady fire rate and became fully automatic.
- All machine guns got a realistic boost to their fire rates, while having damage changes to even out these fire rate changes.
- SMG has had its damage nerfed
- Rifles have had base damage and headshot damage tweaks to accomodate and balance out their fire rates/magazine sizes.
- Generally all currently changed weapons (pistols, shotguns, rifles, machineguns) have been tweaked to make them slightly more distinct from each other and strong weapons have been made more tame.
This is still an ongoing balance, and more attributes of these weapons will be changed over time.
MOD HERE:
https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/3153?tab=files
CHANGELOG:
https://www.nexusmods.com/7daystodie/mods/3153?tab=logs