Quantum Blue

Although I have >12K hours I try and like to play very 'averagely'. Not quite a noob, but I also don't (almost never - except for tests) build 'super' bases, raid poi's for specific items, etc. In my 8 run throughs (up to Lvl 30-45ish) of a20b238 I got about 1 acid every 10 levels/days. (including a trader or two or three very late) I have no problem with them adjusting acid and beakers up slightly. I even resorted to using acid/beaker recipes on my last run-through because they were so ridiculously rare. (out of ~42 trader visits I was able to purchase 3) Are you playing standard 60 min cycle days? (which 'hurts' with traders, but 'helps' with loots) Are most settings at default? I don't disagree with the trader frequency, but I also suspect TFP isn't done balancing RWG, cities and traders. and, btw, am I the only one that no longer has an A20 stable branch in Steam? Only have the latest experimental branch. (which I was going to switch to anyways - but I didn't need to...)

I very much agree. AND, Navezgane doesn't have the med-large cites that RWG now has. Especially with the new districts, etc. And it probably doesn't have some of the really cool POI's that have subterranean levels. If you do decide to try RWG quite a few people bump cities, POI's, and plains up a little, with hills and mountains down a little.

Because zombies are real? (and didn't I use the word 'hyperbole'? That was to foster imaginative thinking.) I have spent some thought on this since my last posting and I have my own story - hopefully without resorting to hyperbole... A few years into the future a lab is working on nanorobotics (look it up - it's real) that augment the human body and/or mind. And a nuclear war breaks out and hits the lab causing some of the living experiments (dogs, people, whatever) to become mutated versions. And they break out and start infecting others. Voila!

Fascinating name. Seems like that is what they have done. I'll assume you understand the game is in alpha which would probably explain the damage through doors, frames, blocks, etc. As for the rest of your comments, it might help to know that this has been discussed many times and the result has been: there are all kinds of zombies. As time has progressed various media (movies, books, comics, etc.) have introduced zombies that have new capabilities (like z's that run, etc.) TFP is still developing THEIR 'zombie' story and TFP z's may have even newer capabilities. TFP z's could have adamantium/vibranium (hyperbole?) like bone structures, teeth and fingernails. Some might have a little intelligence, others not. Some or all could have a kind of 'spidey-sense' (maybe as part of a hive/group mind) for danger or living things or whatever. (And, btw, if someone wants to point out that if that were the case then why are some missing limbs, or parts of flesh, etc. Well, how long does whatever is causing people to turn into TFP Z's take? Maybe it takes time. That's only one answer. I would suspect others with a greater imagination than me could come up with even more...) btw - people used to complain a lot about z's doing straight lines: (one example) https://www.reddit.com/r/7daystodie/comments/7u23ok/the_hive_mind/ btw2: Since TFP hasn't settled on a story yet, we don't even know what kinds of things could be affecting our avatars. They could have insomnia, reduced intelligence (but never enough to affect bacon and eggs!) and/or something in their body/system/brain/blood that affects TFP Z's 'spidey-sense'. And, maybe TFP Z's have a limited form of 'mind-reading', sensing, etc. because of that. "I suspect that once TFP rolls up the game into what they want it to be they'll use very bright people with a LOT of imagination to help define the story and the world and why it works the way it does. Maybe then 'reality' and 'immersion' will be more 'acceptable'."

Thanks for posting the poi name, Red. I have one in my current game so after saving I teleported there (have not even come close to approaching it 'naturally') and the hatch is closed and locked. (I have 12 mods going - 3 yours (thanks! - although I do tweak) - but none affect generation other than your RWG sizes one, but I used 10k anyways for this run through.) I just checked 2 other A20 game runs (no mods for either) and both of those also have hatch closed and locked. I also remember my first run (I deleted the saves for it) and that was my 5th or 6th poi and it was definitely closed and locked. (I had a base right across the 'rear' street from it...)

Statistic Anomaly? How many egg/bacon recipes are you finding? In my 8 A20 runs I still have yet to find one. And while I do assign a perk pretty near the beginning, that can represent all kinds of amassed general knowledge (from reading books, talking to traders, whatever) that allows me to get SOME decent meat from an animal. Assuming you are referring to a home in a 'city', as I actually have a few friends who live in rural areas nearby, that do know how to prepare pigs, cows, chickens, etc. Recipes do not have to represent bound books, they could be notes, etc. Your comments also seem to be based solely upon a 7D2D world happening really quickly in a current time frame. It doesn't have to be that at all. It's something that could take a while in a not too distant, but unknown time frame, future. And while people are dying off, others are doing what they can to stay alive - including sharing knowledge, etc. How many 7D2D forum visitors play in a nomad style? (quite a few. How many nomads would there be in TFP 7D2D future world?) Couldn't they be sharing recipe knowledge with other people that stayed in a poi, or wrote some things down and accidentally or not left them behind in a poi? I suspect that once TFP rolls up the game into what they want it to be they'll use very bright people with a LOT of imagination to help define the story and the world and why it works the way it does. Maybe then 'reality' and 'immersion' will be more 'acceptable'.

Me too. (although they might need to increase the fat drop rate/amount.) Or water. I suspect I will find a way to imagine a justification for just about any way they decide to handle it. (/sarcasm on...) Know what I can't justify? Egg Nests. Everywhere. In the forest. In the desert. In the snow. In the wasteland. And always having feathers. My 'immersion' requires that my character have to climb every tree searching all branches to find one. And it should take a couple hours in-game time and have all kinds of percentages to fall and break things and/or die. Now if they could handle bird nests the way Donkey-Kong did, that would be great. (hyperbolic reference to 'suspension of disbelief'.) ; - )

Bacon/Eggs requiring a perk: I mentioned a couple years back I used to be a chef. It is not reality to think everyone can make bacon and eggs. (especially multiple times). It isn't even now (when we have all kinds of pots and pans and appliances and cooking shows and ...) let alone in some apocalyptical future where radiation/disease/dirt/etc. are rampant. Putting a perk into cooking is an abstraction for knowing what to use to cook (water / no water - which does not have to be literally represented by the game) a certain kind of pan or pot, how long to cook, how to cut/slice the bacon, how much to stir, how much do I have a situational awareness for (crap - I burned 'em again...) And the character could even be suffering from some kind of amnesia - so they would be starting from scratch. I suspect that once TFP rolls up the game into what they want it to be they'll use very bright people with a LOT of imagination to help define the story and the world and why it works the way it does. Maybe then 'reality' and 'immersion' will be more 'acceptable'.

Not attempting to disqualify any statements already made. Just adding my experience thus far. The runs I am quoting below have 'Feral Sense' off. (I could easily have a post just for that and my testing thus far.) Neither of these is my experience at all. I have 3 'normal' runs into A20b238 until level 50ish, and am on my 4th (mostly 'normal'. I have 3 others for cycle time and feral sense testing purposes). I usually get the first Shadows perk around day 14 and I might go for the second at about day 40+. (If I do - which is usually only for higher level poi's. But I really haven't needed.) I am constantly clearing rooms of z's with the bow and/or crossbow. Heck, I am even shooting doors on closets with multiple z's and taking them all out quietly. I'll grant you that's almost always 1-3 Lvl POI,s but I have had really good luck with 4 and 5 too. I am not saying I can always clear a poi quietly, because there seem to be trigger points in certain poi's to 'ambush' you. (And that is not a complaint.) And I haven't had any surprise z's pop right in front of my eyes, etc. (They have dropped from ceiling, or come around from stacks, etc.) And when I clear a POI I usually salvage all non-structure items (and doors). (and sometimes I fix poi's up.) I have revisited some, and it usually takes a week or more before z's move back in, but clearing them is massively easy as they can't hide. (I don't do that commonly as there is no reason to because I usually destroy loot containers.) I wonder how we could be experiencing so differently. (NOT sarcasm.) (btw - I haven't had any problems with vehicles moving/jumping, either. Well, at least up to now. It's happening quite a bit on my new 4th run. But I am now also playing with about 15 mods, too.)

Madmole explained a couple years back that vehicle tracking is separate from player tracking. Depending on various variables it can take a few seconds and up to a minutes for it to 'catch up'. This can be a big deal if you backup/copy game files outside of the game without exiting. (Especially after just traveling with one.) If you didn't travel far, you can try as Guppycur noted above and use LE in console. If you traveled a 'great' distance you can try going back to where you last were with the vehicle. (or last couple of places...)

At the top of this page is a post referring to an earlier post about Structural Integrity not being recalculated. (And with instructions on how to fix.)

I have a post on this issue with fix instructions back on page 276. (I added a link. Use the arrow top right.)

In the wasteland it sure is (without). And I do believe it is because I am more 'immersed'. (Which is interesting as I am a musician.) Firecat's response (right after mine) is 100% in alignment with me. (For music AND parkour.)

Who likes or dislikes dynamic music? I have done with and without. With does add some 'ambiance' but quite a few times I stop what I'm doing and find nothing. But without 'allows' me to hear more 'ambient' noise. Which is ok most of the time, but holy cow, wasteland scares the bejeebus out of me. (And, a btw, parkour (2) seems to be an awesome perk for the wasteland...)

Just about every single day. ~14 hour 7D2d days are very common. I have even had a couple of 48+ hour sessions. (Eating at desk - but paused for quick BR breaks.) And while I have done that with a few other games as well, I have 10x as much time invested in 7DTD as any of those other games. (Ok, Civ 3/4 only 5x as much...) My problem is I can't usually quit until after a horde night. (Which is why I usually have ~14 hour 7D2D days.) I won't be able to sleep because of the 'tension' that keeps building until I know I have passed it. It's a reason I find it hard to play on extended time cycle settings. At least 120 min cycles allow me to do a week in 14 hours. The 90 min setting means I either quit after 10.5 and go nuts trying to do something else or I do 21 hours. While I can get by on 4 hours sleep, 2 or 3 a few days of 3 or less in a row aren't 'fun'. Like stupid's message a couple above, I also find the new cities absolutely amazing. btw - one of my normal playstyle 'things' is - I salvage just about everything. Except structure. And when a version gets long and there's some time before a new version pops, I start fixing POI's. I learn a lot about them, the POI editor, and all kinds of useful little tricks to fix things. You know, like invisible blocks... (I also have a little OCD and like shiny/new things.) I should also mention I am super blessed with a wonderful wife, who just retired herself, and is not a gamer (DANG!) who allows me the freedom to play as much as I want.

I absolutely agree. (When I am not using all defaults and no mods to help with bug testing) I have been a huge fan of JaxTeller's 'Ravenhurst', KhaineGB's 'When Darkness Falls' (and love the subtitle ref to 'Aliens'), SubQuakes 'Undead Legacy', (A name I don't remember) who had a Wizard/Sorcery version of 7D2D, and countless others. Those overhauls, mods, and modlets not only show the massive diversity and ingenuity with the fanbase - but the 'willingness' of TFP to suffer some 'inconvenience' when people post errors and bug reports while using mods, to allow it to continue, and to have such an open framework to continue. (It's not perfect, but it sure is in the top of game creators that do.) I, myself, took a little break, but am back, because of advances in the game AND because I myself do some xpath editing and modlets to kind of tweak the game for me. (Like bird's nests that destruct after purloining, etc.)

An evaluation of 7D2D Day 'Cycle' Time A small comparison table: Day Cycle Real Trader # of Setting Time Vender 7th Day (Mins) (Hours) Supply Drop Hordes 60 7 2 1 60 14 4 2 60 21 6 3 60 28 8 4 120 7 0 0 120 14 2 1 120 21 3 1 120 28 4 2 7 Days to Die is not a game where any/all time slices are 'tension' 'equal'. Because it has 'events' that drive player actions. (Almost always. Unless you change settings...) Because of this, players are nudged into preparing for these events. And, also not just because of this, but because almost every game has what is called a net positive time effect. Meaning, most actions are rewarded with positive effects, more/better objects, etc. Because that allows to game creators to increase the pressure/threat/tension, so that the player can continue with more actions, usually augmented with rewards to make those more difficult situations easier. (And it continues...) Something the table shows is that regardless of the time setting (assuming all other settings being default or equal) that players will have the same number of drops or vendor/trader changes before the next horde night. (30 min is not exactly true right away, but it does end up being the same after some time.) It also shows that the 120 min cycle setting allows for twice as much time to be prepared for the next horde. And, because, 7D2D is a net positive time effect game, it will almost always result in a better than 2x factor for being ready. Having said that, I also realize that if a player relies solely or mostly on Supply Drops, Vending Machines (for Food), and Traders (especially for ammo) that the game might appear to be more difficult. But, that almost seems to ignore all the additional time for farming, hunting, crafting, etc. An analogy for me would be setting the experience setting to provide 200% experience, but then only assigning perks to things you never or almost never use. I know 90 minute and 120 minute settings make the game easier. (90 being half as much as 120.) Just like I now know that the 30 minute setting makes the 'harder'. You are always scrambling to get ready for the first horde. And, you realize that choices need to be made very quickly and that time is extremely precious and cannot be wasted. 120 minute setting is very much the opposite. If I make a mistake, almost always no big deal to fix. Lots of time. I can craft twice as many bullets every day on 120 vs 60. (And half as many on the 30 minute setting.) Because it's not just about crafting time, I have twice as much time to go find brass, after I emptied the trader of all of his ammo.) And I will have almost twice as much experience for each horde as I do on 60 minutes. (That's not speculation. I do.) Now, you could posit that after 14 hours real time my two characters will have roughly the same amount of experience at either setting. (Assuming settings are the same, and that my playstyle is the same). And actually, it works out that that seems to be 'close'. (Level / GameStage / LootStage) What it is not saying is that my 60 minute character has had to survive 2 hordes (and the tension that goes with that), while my 120 minute character has had only one. Yes, my 60 minute character has twice as many loot drops, but all loot drops are not that great (especially having been tweaked/rebalanced again), and is almost never close to making up for you needed to use for the horde. (If it did, you would never need to do anything else...) And, yes, the 60 min cycle character is getting more experience from the doubling of the hordes, but it doesn't make up for the extra z's and other activities that provide experience on the other 6 days that my 120 minute cycle character gets twice as much time to do. My 120 minute cycle horde battles are definitely easier than the same horde battle for the 60 minute cycle character. (And, as I mentioned, tension is not the same. And, 30 minute cycle tension is just too crazy for me. Maybe Aldranon, JaxTeller, KhaineGB, etc.) The 60 minute cycle setting seems to be extremely well balanced with regards to 'tension' and 'relaxation'. (That's kind of a 'duh' as it is probably the basis for just about everything TFP does.) BTW: This is not an admonition or anything about what cycle anyone uses or how to play. I would even promote trying 90 or 120 or even the 30 minute settings. One of the reasons 7D2D might be so successful is because it has so many ways for people to experience. Just trying to help provide a foundation for conversations.

Because the lid or door might have been left opened? ; - )

SI (Structural Integrity) and base stability I've noticed my bases seem to be collapsing more frequently in A20 than previously. Even after full repairs are made. It looks like stability is not getting auto recalculated after replacing missing/broken blocks. (Like after a horde attack.) I did some checking and it isn't (for me). Here's how to check and fix: Enable Command Console. [F1] Enable Debug Mode. Type dm and hit [Enter] Exit Command Console. [Esc] Show Debug Tools. [Esc] Enable Show Stability Select {Show Stability} Anything vertical from ground (not 100% correct, but...) should be bright green. (Changing to yellow/orange/red the further you horizontally traverse from a supporting column.) But if you take blocks out and replace them, it does not go back to as originally built. To fix: Select {Recalc Stability} in the Debug Tools menu. The structure should return to original build stability. To exit the Debug Tools Menu hit [Esc] You can also now also disable Debug mode by performing the first 3 steps above.

How come the loot/z's respawning - but not your changes - not make sense? Other people found the poi (with your helpful access and changes) and stayed there. But other z's found the same thing and took care of the people. Hence more z's and loot. ?

Ah. That explains it. I only have 10000+ hours of 7D2D under my belt. I see your point about 'real game hours' vs 'in game day cycles'. But, I believe that explains why 120 min is easier. 120 min cycles is very similar to setting 14 day hordes. You have twice as much time to gather useful things and prepare. It's why my base is almost all concrete on my 2nd horde in my 120 min cycle game vs cobblestone for my 2nd horde in my 60 min cycle game. Note: I am not comparing different gaming styles; I am playing both the same. (Meaning: not rushing to get concrete, etc.) (In general I also have better weapons and more ammo). Yes, the cobblestone represents 14 hours real life game time vs 28 hours for the stone, but the hordes were easier. I also see your point about tokens and traders. We seem to be talking about different points in the game and/or playstyles. I do not have stacks of tokens. I suspect that if I were to get to late game stage, I will experience what you are talking about. But, I am only experiencing a little over 30 hours in my 120 min cycle game so far. And I know I was able to procure better and more things than I did in my 60 min cycle game. At the beginning of a game, it helps a lot. I had started this discussion because of a comment Khalagar made to Callum123456789 about having steel tools etc. at a certain day. He guessed that Callum wasn't using standard 60 min cycles and he was right. (and that is not saying anything Callum is doing is wrong.) But, it does point out why there seems to be some 'confusion' when comments include the in game 'day'. (or screenshots that show day) It could help if when people post something concerning in game days, that including cycle times would help clarify things for others.

Congratulations! (Sorry for 3 messages almost in a row... but I needed to let you know I understand.) I have had 4 A20 games (usually until level 45ish - not counting the 120 min cycle one I mentioned above). And in every game I had a beaker by week 2. 1st game I had 3 by day 30. Which is funny, cuz I could not get a wrench in that game until day 20ish. (And I know how to get...) Besides that wrench it's acid for me. (In each game. I know where and how to get those too.) Currently on day 40 in 4th game and 4 acids. No chem stations at either of 2 traders as well. (AND, that includes using the nerd goggles 'trick'.) I was lucky enough to purchase a mini-bike. (Although I 'wasted' some Int perk points early so I could try and build one... The joke's on me - rofl!) (And I tried Snow biome and got 2 bears, 3 mountain lions and 2 wolves (at roughly same time - but no dogs! - but a few lumber jacks that kind of helped as they got attacked as well. Didn't kill everything - got away on mini-bike with 4 hp left.) (Aldranon/others: I don't need to play on perma-death to have near-cardiac-arrests or seizures... ; - ) )

TFP: I mentioned a couple days ago that the RWG cites are incredible. (I know about the districts, etc.) I just wanna say the subterranean levels are absolutely fantastic as well. I understand (Roland) that they are POI based, they are still wonderful, and I am going to keep my fingers crossed that maybe in the not-too-distant-future, there might be some tunnel 'connectors' between POI's as well. (Especially 'downtown'.) There's just one little thing - you know how people like to 'discuss' whether or not you 'follow' a POI quest path is a good thing or not? I've noticed a few poi's that you have no choice but to 'break immersion' by smashing something or 'nerd-cubing' (SORRY ROLAND!) to continue. I am going to assume that is because there are still going to be tweaks, etc. Please keep up the astounding work and Happy Holidays. (Everyone.)

... I have to disagree. Longer days absolutely make the game easier. I did some extensive testing on this a couple years back, but started another run of a current A20 game I am playing using 120 min cycles instead of 60. (Map, all other settings, and playstyle, are exactly the same.) 1. You almost always have a positive net return at the end of any 'cycle'. (You almost have to - or there would be no 'game'.) For example: let's say at the end of 4 standard 60 min day cycles you have netted 10 food and 10 water over and above anything you needed to use. At 4 90 min days you will have 15 food and 15 water. And 4 120 min cycles you will have 20 food and 20 water. 2. While you are correct about buying certain things out at a trader (assuming you use traders) you still net ahead with traders because you will have more tokens and loot to sell so you will be able to get more or better things. (even things you might not have been able to afford at standard 60 min cycles.) I just visited the trader early day 4 on 120 min cycle game and had over twice as much (2.6x as much actually) as I did in my 60 min cycle game. 3. The extended cycles give a big bonus at the beginning of the game because horde nights are limited. And it's not just by time. Normally, 1st and 2nd horde nights are over for me by 1-1:30. (I usually play nomad/warrior with 12 zombie horde min - when I am not play testing for TFP). With 120 min cycles, 11:30 is done. And for almost any game, any boost in the beginning usually gets 'compounded' until the end. 4. My game stage and loot stage are definitely higher at the end of any cycle. (And while some might argue that that is making the game more difficult, I would disagree. You have more/better armor, weapons, etc. And even with tougher/more zombies - the 'net' difference is more positive the longer you play. That's fairly born out by reading the dev diary for a 'little' while...) ; - )

In my 4 games of A20B238 thus far I have had all padded and 1 point Shadows and 0-2 book perks and have been able to complete many poi's (day and night not questing, and day and night quests) without waking ANY z's. Even axing any trash piles before I step on them. Have even removed doors with axe or pickaxe. Most of the time weapon is primitive bow, or if lucky, a suppressed rifle. Although there does seem to be a few poi's that have 'trip' points that wake up all remaining z's. (Spoiler: Roof mid point of cabinet maker could be one.) Have also had regular wolves and DIRE wolves not see me from 2 blocks away at night. (The first time with a dire I almost... - cuz I only had bow and club. Just kept backing up and 7 headshots later, 35 meat.) Have also started very near towns and been attacked by dog(s). Always seemed to be a doghouse nearby. Also have been attacked by a regular wolf late in the first day. Still nothing is a s scary (for me) when I am out and about (with no vehicle - and almost no buildings nearby) when 2 bears (could swear once was non-z versions of bears) and a pack of dogs shows up...