Poojam

I guess to each their own. But what you classify as a problem... I would call the intended design. #1 - I don't even know how to respond to this. The whole game is an investment in time management & survival simulation. You make choices that affect your survival constantly. Why shouldn't raiding or durability of base defenses be reflective of the time effort that went into it? #2 - It is not griefing. It's working exactly as intended. The risk of a high level player raiding your wooden base is exactly the encouragement to drive players to level and progress in the game. It's the reward for the time spent on character development. It mimics the survival nature of the game?! Once you truly understand and embrace that zombies and starvation aren't the only thing you have to worry about, it becomes fun. It also opens up bandit/nomadic play styles for players that can adequately "survive" without even building a base to begin with. They just steal from the farmers...which is awesome! #3 - I mostly disagree. This is only true to the extent that players may have already land claimed/destroyed crates in the stores. It does force your hand to level differently than maybe what you would otherwise plan. Perhaps it would be better to venture further out, build up, or perhaps gamble and raid others earlier than you would have otherwise done to get rare items. #4 - Exactly. And a solo player should be at a disadvantage compared to a group. If you are playing solo and getting overrun by groups/clans, then you need to form an alliance or find a different server. Your strategy is a losing one. You sound like a solo player that enjoys the crafting/base building/mining aspects of the game. Once you have all your ducks in a row and are high enough level, you probably want to engage others and fight sporadically. Which is fine. We need those people on PVP servers too. But I think you are lacking a lot of perspective on what is valuable for PVP, and particularly why it is so.

By having an invulnerable claim, that removes all the skill from being a smart base builder/base raider doesn't it? When raiding, I spend at least half of the time trying to deduce locations of claims and whether attacking the claim or raiding the claimed base is worth it. When designing a secure base, I sometimes spend days and challenge teammates to outwit my creations. Which is fun! It's rewarding and requires knowledge of how the claim system works and raiding player capabilities to do it well. It's, ya know, pretty sand boxy. Not to brag, but there has been several occasions where a teammate has discovered a lapse in calculated overlapping claims that didn't actually overlap or an exposed claim that enables us to raid an otherwise prohibitively protected base. I've seen 10,000 block upgraded steel bases that were raided in 30 minutes because someone made a mistake. I particularly relish the thought that the game reality punishes the stupid and rewards the observant. That said... I do think the recipe is just too cheap. I can farm enough iron in an hour to furnish over 100 claim blocks. By simply adjusting the recipe to take a moderate amount of resources, I think the "spamming" side of things will take care of itself. I know this isn't a fully fleshed out system, but lets set creativity in base building/claim implementation aside. If you have that one dynamic, invulnerable land claim, how would you guard against stupid, but simple, base designs that are constructed to exhaust the raider? Doors are currently weaker than going through two blocks of the same class/upgrade level. Does that change? It seems if you try to promote calculated raiding, then this is where that conversation leads us. It reduces creativity and makes it easier to design a safer base. At the extreme, I have seen games that implement these things poorly. People will design large rectangular structures with serpentine hallways and dozens of doors. Where in the current system, we all would look at the giant rectangular structure and went... let's probe by going through the wall or ceiling in a couple of spots first. Edit - I didn't think it was worth mentioning the obvious, but the 1 claim rule is also a severely limiting feature when it comes to base size too. What if I want to build a large rectangular base on a cliff? I don't need to more real estate in front or behind me, but I want to expand in two directions? Multiple claims allows owners to alter the shapes of their creations to suit their desires. I think by implementing a hard system with only 1 block, it would need to be of sufficiently diverse and modifiable nature to avoid hampering an otherwise great system. I also design fake bases/loot rooms to distract or waste the time of potential raiders. Sometimes these are completely separate structures detached from the main base that appear more secure, but have nothing of value inside of them. This aspect would go out the window too.

If there is one claim block. I (and others) will remove it and destroy the entire base every time. At end game, I often don't care what the loot is inside the base. I'm raiding it to disable my enemy. By being able to craft them and protecting your base appropriately, it becomes unfeasible to find them all. This prevents raiders from dismantling the base. It also makes it a very costly exercise to try and search for hidden chests. This provides some event of survivability to your loot/resources in the event you get raided.

With only one land claim allowed, the griefing problem will become much more of an issue within the game's current framework. Some servers allow griefing, which I think is a good idea since it echos reality. But I understand why others hate it. Many servers are mixed on application and some forbid it. This gets enforced with the admins. They will restore the chunk from a previous save. This takes resources that could otherwise be designed away with a more elegant system like maybe you describe, but it does work. Having craftable land claim blocks allows the player to protect themselves from griefing without having to rely on admins. Players should be building their bases in a smart way without exposed claims. Having multiple overlapping claims also makes it difficult to zero in on their location. However, 10 steel for one land claim is absurdly cheap which allows people to spam them. Which is pretty cheesy. I like the servers where the recipe is adjusted to require a moderate amount of resources with 1 or 2 medium-rarity items. This fixes the problem without upsetting the current design. It adds an element of progression since those items are not immediately abundant or sometimes even harvestable by noobs. That makes early game all the more exciting knowing that you need to work on getting steel asap .... or gathering something to get more claims in order to protect your investment (base).

Gazz - Something in your last paragraph above touched on something that resonated with me. Is Player inflicted damage treated differently than zombie inflicted damage? Or can it be made to be? If so, then a scalar could be applied to player inflicted damage such that the efficiency of armor can be dialed down without affecting the current pve balance against zombies whatsoever. Simply doing that in conjunction with perhaps limiting the wellness pool to 175 would probably be enough to do the trick.

I don't see a lot of gamebreaking bugs. Or maybe what you call a bug I don't think of as one. For example, I wouldn't call the spawn point camping a bug. It's just simple griefing or could be considered an exploit. The game is functioning as it's supposed to. It's just that some players have figured out that those points are unprotected and not random. ♥♥♥♥ thing to do.

I'm ignorant of the backend limitations, so this may not be possible. But this sure seems like it could be addressed by introduction of a random number variable to operate on the spawn loc coordinates. - - - Updated - - - Last edited by Roland; 12 Minutes Ago at 04:04 AM. Reason: You didn't think I would let that stand did you.... Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade to get attention. Don't pretend you haven't noticed over the years.

I love any aspect of the game that introduces a reason for players to converge and fight. - - - Updated - - - "Hardcore niche one". I don't want a Rust clone. And I can assure you after reading these forums for the last two years, neither do the devs. I want a voxel based, crafting, building, survival multiplayer that rewards time invested in a logical amounts that don't upset the game balance too much. I kind of disagree with your assessment though. I don't think pvp'ers that have stuck around on 7days want a level playing field. The game mechanics, movement, and netcode are too poor to be a great pvp game. I view pvp players that play shoot-em-ups like CS Go differently than players that play this game, Ark & Rust. The latter audience are more akin to offshoots from MMORPG's than they are round based blood bath games. Granted I've played the former competitively for years, and I'm not knocking it, but I don't want to see 7dtd turn into that. (Madmole - Stop getting ideas of copying H1Z1's king of the Hill).

Gazz - Offline claim modifiers do have value and should be operable. It enables server owners to provide a higher degree of configuration that provides comfort to different playstyles and provides relief for players that are going to be offline for longer periods. Most people don't realize that they don't work... If you go through the server listing, you'll find that online/offline multipliers are rarely the same value. And if they are the same value, I would wager that the owner knows they don't work in more cases than they intentionally wanted them to be the same. Others have commented on this, but raiding someone while they are online is fricking hard. I mean it can be next to impossible on a decent base. Since the repair rate is so high that you simply have to exhaust the defenders supplies to get in. I like the idea that server owners can specify a lower mux for online defenders. It allows for this to be optimized into a way that makes it more viable to raid someone while online. By enabling the online/offline multipliers it also allows pve-centric characters to have a higher sense of security, which is fair in it's own right. Many servers would like to opt for something like 8x online/64x offline. I believe the intent is for server owners to be able to build more diversified communities of different types of players. As it stands now, since the multipliers don't work, there is no advantage to raiding someone while they are online. It's far safer to wait until they log off. It's going to take you the amount of time, so why not...? If the multipliers actually worked, servers could be configured in a way that reduces that prevalence of players getting wiped out while they are offline. There are a couple of exploitable aspects of online/offline multipliers that would need to be refined to implement this well though (after they get the darn things to work in the first place). Joint ownership affecting claim strength, ability to remove/add friends and affect claim strengths, combat logging-type situations where you could log out during a raid to protect your base. They're not difficult problems to solve. And I'm sure there are more that I'm not thinking of. But these kinks would need to be worked out.

With regards to griefing. Land claim blocks are 10 steel. That is dirt cheap. If your base is getting demolished after they take out your claim, shame on you for only having one or two claims. Or maybe that they were visible or poorly supported. Now I do sympathize for the noobs out there on the raiding front. It's completely discouraging (and heartbreaking the first time) to get all your loot stolen or your base wiped out after you dump a weekend into a game and log back in to find it all gone. It takes persistence that some players just can't stomach with multiple failures to figure out how to implement base designs that effectively counter other players. I think this is something that can be improved on with education though. I think the large open world leads new players into a false sense of security. The crafting, mining, and scavenging attract a lot of players to the game that are not historically "into" pvp. Which leads to a lot of raging when they discover the harsh reality that there is more to worry about than just zombies. But maybe we can use the quest system or tool tip messaging to educate players on smarter tactics for survival from players in the same way they have been devised to get players familiar with self-survival basics? Or at least alert them to the dangers of survival. I'm just throwing out ideas, but maybe stuff like this could be included... Quest 1 - (to quote Bloom) - "Don't put all your eggs in one basket" Tool tips that informs the player of being raided online/offline. Other survivors will steal from you if they get the chance. Play this narrative into the lore of the game! Quest 2 - "Hide your stash" Maybe this is just a series of tool tips like "hide your stash under walls, behind cupboards, in grandma's attic...." Quest 3 - "Stay off the beaten path" Make it simple. Inform players that you can be found and raided. Try to hide your base or devise a simple test that can be implemented within the current game framework for concealing a container or door. Quest 4 - "Beware of strangers" Spawns a very powerful bandit that comes after you. This is where noobs learn about bag drop Quest 5 - "♥♥♥♥ and Get" Create a quest to raid a grocery store and have it spawn zombies around you in doing so. Quest 6 - "We need a bigger boat" You have to make concrete blocks or vault doors to pass this test.

I agree with Bloom's posts 1000%. I'm certain that the five other regulars that I know of would agree as well. I completely disagree Roland. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The current playing field gives you a force multiplier of like 20, per Gazz's numbers. It shouldn't be 0 (a level playing field) for this game. It also shouldn't be 20 at max tiers vs lvl 1 either. If you were to keep the current skills & perks, then the force multiplier of a maxxed out player should probably be on the order of 5-10. Really though, it just takes experimentation and playtesting to find the sweetspot. The force multiplier is only a competitive advantage in open dueling though. There is a variety of weapons that need to be taken into consideration. There is also time-to-kill (lethality of weapons versus health pool) for each weapon type that should be accounted for. For example, it can be dialed in to provide noobies/stealthers an award for taking on a high level and/or geared player. Make it so that there is risk again. As of right now, the juice is never even close to being worth the squeeze unless you're high enough level to engage a maxxed out player. For example, I personally loved the fact that a well placed crossbow headshot on a geared player could possibly take them out in previous alphas. If you were that level 3 guy running around on your first day on an established server, there was nothing better than looting a nice purple rifle off some cocky guy killing noobs around 0,0. Now, maybe if you're 150+ wellness or are wearing a high level iron helmet, then that well placed xbow headshot can't kill in one hit. Fair enough. Risk/reward on both ends. It's these little things that need exploration and playtesting that have been lost in the game's current incarnation. I reject the notion that PVP needs to be a separate play mode. This would break apart the playerbase further than it already is. If you don't want to PVP, then play on a server with a PVE ruleset. I think there is plenty of room to mathematically adjust certain skill/damage/health/armor modifiers/zombie damage/zombie health to calibrate a rewarding PVE and balanced PVP experience in the same realm. Ultimately, each skill that rewards % armor, health, damage, and damage redux need to be ranked for effectiveness in a PVE environment and then for a PVP environment. Gazz already did the force multiplier calc for most of this already. It really just boils down that calculation to get this right, and a lot of problems people have with dueling disappear. I wouldn't change a thing for mining/mining progression skills/perks other than chop off the bottom 150 levels of the scale. The effectiveness at the bottom is too low. Do people really find it rewarding that it takes 20 hits to remove one layer off a surface stone? Then you level a little bit and it takes 14 hits. Won't 12 hits as a starting still be okay? As an aside, the tools do need to be dialed in a little better for durability pools/block damage/reward for resources required in order to reflect the material and time value of obtaining and running an auger>steel>iron>stone. I trust that legendary items will be added that are going to allow for 1-block hitting again. That was really what made steel worth it over iron in previous alphas. Need to find some other carryover point or bonus to reinforce that difference at each tool type imo. Some games do it with block debuffs against tool types. For example, stone tools can't really mine metal worth a crap. Or iron will dull more quickly on metal than steel. Things like that provide incentive for the time investment in progressing through the game. But back to PVP. Sound is the supreme item that needs repairing. This does not affect PVE in the slightest either. It needs to be adjusted for each audio source to make PVP happen again. Sometime in A14 they "fixed" the sound, which meant you couldn't hear augers from 7k away anymore. Fair enough, I agree. That was probably excessive. In doing that, they also extremely shortened the sound travel distance for gunshots, tool impacts, minibikes, footsteps (regardless of running or walking), beating on things, loot sounds, farting, etc. This got nerfed so far that you often can't hear someone taking a metal door down with a pickaxe on a building just 1 city block away! As a result, the pvp experience suffered because sound was what enabled people to track down and find each other. This was rewarding. It added an element of realism. It allowed for bullies. There were risks to going out and looting stuff in a town that you knew was occupied, because it meant making noise. Making noise meant possibly alerting other survivors to your presence. You had to be on guard. Some people knew the risks, and set off to live in the boonies until they could protect themselves in a fight. Some people took the risk and loot the stores to gain the advantage. Strategies evolved around your exposure level. Now that no one can hear you unless they are standing next to you, this element has been completely neutered and the low kill counts on PVP-prevalent servers are evidence of it. Many sounds need to be dialed back up some, if possible. Gunshots, minibikes, power tools, metal tools on metal objects should be audible for say 1-to-2k. Right now they carry about 250-300m. The sound you make opening a cupboard should carry about 150m, like it does currently. Running footsteps should be audible from 500m, and maybe walking footsteps 250m. When the sound range got reduced so far, the world got a whole lot bigger.

Oh. On belt drop servers a common cheap thing to do is to run with crossbow on your bar and exploding crossbow bolts. The bolts are expensive (good thing) but not losing anything of any value here allows people to have a very OP weapon at essentially no cost. Once a few good shooters figure it out, it usually kills all reason to run anything other than that. I think the explosive range should be nerfed. Raiding with explosives should have minor gains over picking it at somewhat intensive costs. Or just drop the block damage all together, which is what most server owners do.

Block damage should be established with a more stable leveling arc on time to destroy. I think it's worth looking at reducing the effectiveness of steel upgrades to reinforced concrete. It's a huge difference. It's tough to balance with the mining perk. I really think some experimental data is required to figure out how it's behaving. On a 64x server it takes us 18 minutes to open a fully upgraded vault door with TWO people hitting it sequentially with 600 quality steel pickaxes, 5/5 miner 69er, 100 mining for reference. Maybe that's a good time for a 64x server, but it's basically not worth it until you're leveled and perk'd out. I don't care to find out what it would be for a level 1 player on that durability setting. I'm certain it's too long. Need something to give you wellness faster or nerf the wellness multiplier reduction on the higher levels. It takes weeks to get to max wellness now since you have to get it from food. Dying and losing 10 wellness is painful. Getting into firefights/battles is more infrequent because people don't want to lose 40 or 50 wellness in one evening. Antibiotics was totally fine when they gave wellness. The moldy bread to make it was somewhat rare, so you couldn't make millions of them. Some servers added a custom recipe so that sham sandwiches could be crafted into moldy bread, which was a logical extension for boosting the availability further (good touch). Personally, I like World of Anarchy's solution which was to add a canabis plant. You have to loot the seeds, they give 1 leaf, and craft it into a joint with some paper. The plants take 12 real time hours to bloom and cultivate. They yield about 3-4 wellness over time when you smoke the joint. (he's dutch - it's legal there). Auger durability and damage rate is too low. It's gains over using a steel pickaxe aren't commensurate over the auger's rarity. Auger parts need to be a little more common. Airdrops are a good thing. They bring people out of their bases to converge on a common area. Higher frequency and the addition of server notifications in chat would be good. "Airdrop landing near X,Y" Zombies should take fall damage. Base building, heat generation, and zombie defense is part of it and should remain part of the game experience. It's just we ought to be able to build a base that is mostly self sufficient with the tier 1 materials and minimal maintenance. Just don't do anything drastic and make spikes worthless. Sound is supreme in pvp servers. Sound proximity has been completely broken with 14.6, but was good for the rest of 14. Good players turn off the music and ambient sounds entirely, then boost the game sounds really high. With a good set of headphones they can hear you 4k away banging on a car. Which is actually not far from being that unrealistic if you are familiar with living out in the country. I like that. I like that the forges don't tink anymore. That was a little too revealing, but some would disagree. I think you should hear them from further than you can now, but they used to be really bad. Like 7-8k away. Player sounds interacting with the environment should be audible from a fair distance. Otherwise you have a heck of a time finding people to fight. I can't spend enough time on this topic. Completed weapons and military parts should be a little more common in the stores/more frequent in air drops. The rarity for even getting a good gun in garbage loot containers should have a better %. Killing cops to get level 100 sawed off shotguns really sucks. But magically if you're higher level, they give better guns. Balance with extreme prejudice goes to the high level player/or team's designated looter. I find myself ignoring all loot containers that aren't in a store, air drop, or military cache after getting to a decent level. The scavenging part of the game just dies. A somewhat pvp specific contentious issue is destruction of store loot containers. Some hate it and consider it griefing, and some feel it is is fair game. The fair gamers say this adds an ability for denying your competition resources which makes you stronger. If you value them, then you should protect them. I agree mostly, but there are some items in the game that are essentially only looted from these crates which makes them too valuable to get weapon/machine parts. I think if you boost the loot table to include crap containers to have small chances to get better items, then this contention will die down. On an established PVP server (day 100) with a 10k radius, it can be quite challenging to find a store that isn't claim protected/heavily reinforced. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things. Some aspects change with each alpha a bit, but I tried to focus on the latest.

You are heading in the right direction. It's a diverse realm with a lot of different opinions on how "hardcore" you get. I've played on 4x hardcore (no rules) servers that were a ton of fun. These servers lead to a unique playstyle where most people hide their bases, unclaimed. The protection is so low, that you really just reveal yourself if you claim things. It's far more common for someone to come by punching grass and get a ding. Which is a tough lesson that newbies learn. It's also more exciting for more experienced players because your stuff can only get so secure, even at 4x. You have to be creative and design mazes, dead falls, traps, hidden chests behind false walls. Lots of neat things that I think taps into the game's inherent building capability that sets it apart from the competition. I've been playing on a 64x server lately and honestly it can be kind of a drag. The bases are simple and large. People don't have to use their imagination much. The decision to raid is simply a time investment. If I have enough mats, then I don't bother raiding a big base unless I personally have had a reason to do so through negative interactions with the owner. The best servers are a good medium I think. 16x-24x protection is optimum imo. I recommend you come play on what I think you would call a more healthy, moderate PVP server. Wicked Clowns is a good one (16/32 belt drop only, no griefing). World of Anarchy is also good and more hardcore (64x all drop, griefing allowed). Both have dedicated owners and a host of active (often anonymous) admins/moderators that make sure things keep going smoothly. These are pretty tight-knit communities, with several lone wolfs, small groups, and occasional clan that arises. What makes part of the PVP aspect successful, and I think will always be required no matter what rulesets can be designed is the presence of an admin/moderators to enforce the rules. The game is not secure enough to prevent hackers/exploiters, and I don't think can ever become so due to the way the authentication occurs between server & client. What constitutes griefing is a diverse issue with many different owners establishing rules that suit them. Not so sure that the game can be balanced or designed to instill a better sense of this. Examples (throwing the loot out on the ground, shuttling loot out to a temp base/drop chest, destroying containers, destroying blocks not required for access/egress, destroying bases that are not raidable without collapse (bases on 1x stilts), occupying/claiming a raided base as your own, filling it with land mines, camping bedrolls) There is probably a dozen other aspects that I've seen get interpreted differently where violators will get punished and admins will restore lost loot/region files to restore the peace. It's complicated and I don't know if the game can be designed/balanced to make this any better. Personally, I and some others find solace in just hardcore no rules (save for hackers). It's easier for owners to manage as well. If you'd be up for it, you're welcome to hop on teamspeak with a few friends and I and we can discuss the health of these servers/what would change to make them better/several other viewpoints. Maybe log a few hours and you can get a taste for raiding/some of the good things. We all have over 1000 hours playing PVP, with one guy over 4000 hours. 4-8 PM CST on Friday is the best time. Weekends would be good too. PM if you're up for it. I think you'll be surprised, probably even have fun. In short though, Yes - XP for zombies. XP for players too (it's not that much is it) (general MP comment) Restore the different sound for accessing creative menu. It was valuable for detecting hackers. Also, add a property for establishing the owner/crafter of a chest. The bad ones get banned quickly because they just wreak havoc. The worst thoug are the stealthy ones that quietly spawn in materials without drawing much attention to themselves. They don't go around blowing stuff up or keeping 500 oil barrels in their inventory. They just conveniently always have a full set of armor, 570 sniper rifle, and 125 ammo. A lot of these hackers are wising up to the fact that if they keep their stuff in a claimed base, they get banned. So they just stash it in an unclaimed dump chest somewhere. Having unique identifiers would be valuable for admins. Wicked clowns has a feature that auto bans players when they have certain items in their inventory only accessible through the CM. Would like to see things like this become stock admin/moderation tools with the game and not reliant on some 3rd party server managers. K, back on point. Loot tables need to be rebalanced and better randomized. This is kind of a dumb thing in even a realistic sense, since it introduces some sort of schrodinger's cat-like paradox on what's actually in the box. But practically speaking, the scavenging skills/quality joe perks put new and low level players at a huge competitive disadvantage. Armor and weapon modifier perks need to be heavily nerfed or deleted entirely. Maybe these could be adjusted to offer meager gains, but that gets out of hand quick with the multiple perks doubling up on each other. Gate locking different armor classes/crafting material behind skill trees is totally okay, I just don't like the damage modifiers via skill level. I don't think the game should get balanced back out flat to be RUST, where you only need to farm the mats. But requiring a time investment/specialization can be good so long as it doesn't lead to crazy force multipliers from geared to the ungeared. Time to kill needs to be revisited and reduced with all guns. I should be able to kill you with a well placed headshot from a lot of different guns. At this point in time, I simply can't come close to killing a 250 wellness guy in military armor with heavy armor perked out. At a low level, I'll hit them with a 600 quality sniper rifle 4x in the chest and it still won't do it. Ridiculous. Wellness gains (50) through perks should be reconsidered for reduction. 25% more health is quite a bit. Delete all of the huffing/puffing/groaning/map open sounds. I very rarely find someone since they are making these sounds, and more often get revealed stalking someone by making them myself. The competitive advantage for mechanics like this should be given to the stalker, not the prey. Delete the hot/cold temperature system. Yes, gather mats faster or preferably reduce crafting quantities for reinforced concrete. Show elevation, food & water in the hud. No menus for these things. (not unique to PVP i suppose, just an inherently bad design decision) Keep the ability for the server to spec the land claim health, radius, drop type rulesets. Diversity is good here. Invest in architecture to boost the capability of servers to handle more players (up to 50 at least). At this point "PVP" is not really supported all that well since a really really good server can barely handle 25 people. With a large world (even at 10k), the game begins to flourish in a competitive nature at around 30. Allow unlimited map size. It gives players the ability to track out 15/20k to build up resources/establish themselves before moving closer to 0,0 and getting into the fray. Think of PVP'ers like introverts/extroverts. Some need the far away base to restore/rebuild resources/confidence/enable a sense of security. Some want to nomad it and just fight 100% of the time. Current drop rates for food/water support the nomadders just fine, but the 10k map is a little too small given the vanilla POI density with a 7 day respawn time. I can cover just about 1/4 of the map on a minibike in one evening. Experienced players will find your base at the current map limits. Some have added PVE/PVP zones. Which I think is a nice idea, but I haven't seen it executed well without some undesirable outcomes. Land claim blocks should be expensive (think 500 steel + 1000 concrete mix + 20 red flowers). They used to be worth spending 20 minutes to steal one. They are way too cheap now, so people spam them. Time to open wooden chests is about right but the degradation is kind of wonky (about 2 minutes). We usually just punch them open since everything does 1 damage. Time to open gun safes should be 2-4x longer than a wooden chest. It should also hold more slots. It's physically bigger, metal, and requires more mats.