[MOD] Better Than Giant Bees: Hardcore Survival

[OreoJackson]

I received a similar report awhile back. Looks like what's happening is that unlocking campfire recipes in single player works fine, but only the server has them unlocked in MP. This is obviously a larger problem with a dedicated server as it means none of the players have access to them.

 

I've been planning on putting some intermediate items into place which are crafted normally and which are the ones unlocked for awhile now to get around this. So say for example "crushed goldenrod" made in the regular crafting grid as the unlock, which can then be made into tea on the campfire.

 

I'll get right on that and try to have a fix for you in the next few hours.

 

Ah alright, was starting to go crazy trying to troubleshoot this

[FlowerChild]

[**** NEW RELEASE ****]

 

Version 1.18 of Better Than Giant Bees is ready for download!

 

Download Link

 

This release contains the following changes:

 

-Added a new "CrushedGoldenrod" item, which is used to make tea in the campfire, and which is now unlocked through a skill book rather than the tea itself. This is to get around errors in multiplayer with campfire recipes unlocked via skill books. Unfortunately, there are no spaces in the name of this item and it appears as "CrushedGoldenrod" due to current limitations on names for custom items unlocked via skill books.

 

-Added "RawAnitbiotics" as a new item. It functions similarly to "CrushedGoldenrod" above, being an intermediate unlock recipe for antibiotics.

 

-Added "GrainMash" as a new item. Same deal as above but for Grain Alcohol.

 

-Changed Biofuel to be a crafting grid recipe instead of a campfire one for the same reasons I added the above recipes, and since its only use is in combination with Grain Alchohol to make gas, which already requires a camp fire and beaker.

 

-Changed (reduced) the frequency of skill books slightly, as there were too many available with the increase of building density in 10.3 & 10.4.

 

-Changed (reduced) the amount of loot that tends to be found on zombie nurses slightly, as painkillers and other medical supplies were a tad too abundant.

 

-Removed the short metal pipes from "junk" loot (zombies and garbage) as they were too abundant in the early game. This means that it will be a bit more difficult to acquire a cooking grill, and tool maintenance will be more of an issue.

 

Enjoy!

[OreoJackson]

Thanks so much! Looking forward to testing it out tonight.

[FlowerChild]

Thanks so much! Looking forward to testing it out tonight.

 

No problem man. Sorry I left it dangling for so long in the first place and that you wasted your time trying to sort it out. I almost exclusively play single player with an occasional 2 player co-op match, so it was unfortunately rather low on my todo list to take care of it.

[Ethinolicbob]

I have already learnt the "Wilderness Survival guide" book and had access to Goldenrod tea, aloe cream and bandages.

After applying the latest version I still have aloe cream and bandages but I am unable to craft crushed goldenrod...

[ottoknabe]

Just loving the mod FlowerChild. Makes the Alpha just so much more playable. I hope the Pimps are trying it out for ideas too (hint!). Thanks.

 

Some data for you - I'm into day 30 (playing 1.17 admittedly). Have found most of the basic skill books but no forge book yet. Looted about 6 POIs - last one was huge with 60 plus houses. Don't actually mind because I think once I get the forge its really challenge over.

 

Supporting the others whoa re saying that the trunk spikes are too overpowered - maybe they are something that is locked away in a later (rare) book and so we have to get by with the weaker wood spikes that also require replacing.

 

Once again thanks for all your hard work.

[imapseudonym]

Gah still having the null reference error on the new configs. Guess I'll try to just import them into the older configs at a later date and see if that makes it work.

[FlowerChild]

Gah still having the null reference error on the new configs. Guess I'll try to just import them into the older configs at a later date and see if that makes it work.

 

This isn't a thing with this mod man, but rather with the modding system overall that the Pimps have in place. At present, the config files need to be installed both client and server side.

 

If you're having problems with that aspect, then you're largely on your own or need to contact tech support for your rental server. There's nothing I can do about it on my end.

 

I have already learnt the "Wilderness Survival guide" book and had access to Goldenrod tea, aloe cream and bandages.

After applying the latest version I still have aloe cream and bandages but I am unable to craft crushed goldenrod...

 

Unfortunately, that's to be expected when I change recipes around. The new ones are treated as being entirely new and unlearned, regardless of what skill books you've read previously.

 

Some data for you - I'm into day 30 (playing 1.17 admittedly). Have found most of the basic skill books but no forge book yet. Looted about 6 POIs - last one was huge with 60 plus houses. Don't actually mind because I think once I get the forge its really challenge over.

 

Yup, you're right there. Building a forge and being able to use it is essentially the very top of the tech progression at present in 7 Days, with the possible exception of farming (which can come before or after depending if you find a hoe).

 

I really don't like the building density in 10.4 mind you and wish I could tweak it. Just hanging out for several days in a single POI to loot it gets rather old, and I'd rather have a higher rate of books drops with fewer buildings.

[jwsdev]

I am on day 12 of a play though on 1.17. I concede your default settings make for a more enjoyable experience. My only tweak is I enforce perma-death on myself. Respawning in a survival game feels like cheating. I guess it is ok when early game is not very dynamic and it would just be another mindless grind to get back to where you were; however, each restart of your mod I find new depth of gameplay tied to the unpredictable way the crafting tree is gated/unlocked.

 

I also wish building density could be tweaked as I have made it to day 12 having never left my first POI. Perhaps the change in book drops you made in 1.18 will encourage me to move on faster- each day I found several books while looting in a single POI.

 

I also agree with the tweak to nurse drops- I think I had 14 painkillers and 2 antibiotics by day 4.

 

There is a couple blocks found on most houses that resemble boarded up windows, some drop planks and others do not. I'll go into creative tonight to get the names of the ones I noticed not dropping to see if you think they should be added.

 

My current save is the best off that I have been in BTGB; however, I will be wiping the world tonight and starting anew with 1.18. Thanks for the update.

[FlowerChild]

There is a couple blocks found on most houses that resemble boarded up windows, some drop planks and others do not. I'll go into creative tonight to get the names of the ones I noticed not dropping to see if you think they should be added.

 

Please do! I wasn't sure if anyone was really noticing that aspect, but I personally find the dropping of planks on destruction of the appropriate blocks to be a rather satisfying feature. It's just a small thing, but I find it makes breaking into houses much more satisfying.

[MadTeddyBear]

I gave it a try with the recommended settings, and it has been a lot of fun. It didn't get that much more challenging, but I had to be more creative with resources which was a lot more satisfying.

 

Some observations. Not saying things need to be changed here but figured the data could be useful.

- Deer are pigs are incredibly rare. I saw 4 deer in 17 days playing. That felt low until I considered just how much venison I got from each. Pigs took too much ammo or time and generally only gave 1 pork so I stopped bothering.

- Hardware store loot felt really off. Out of three shops the first I found nothing but repair tools and fireaxes, on the second I found the same plus two augurs, and on the third I found a hoe, sledgehammer, pickaxe, nailgun, and chainsaw plus the abundant fireaxes and repair tools. About half of all crates were empty.

- Ammo is still kind of an issue. What worked for keeping stocked was to kill cops with a hunting/sniper rifle and turn the 9mm into 762. It did keep me well supplied in ammo, but weapons outside of the two rifles felt too useless/narrow. Pistols were too much work to maintain so i just spent the ammo loaded and dropped them. Shotgun is basically only used to kill dogs if I'm low on health.

- Gun safes were just a waste of time with just a stone axe. Don't think anything needs to be changed, since the loot didn't do much for me until I had a way to get inside them (pickaxe/barrels of oil)

- With a pickaxe and fireaxe I could loot a moderate to large POI and collect enough pipes to break even on durability by the end of it. This was done in 1.7, so I would imagine it would be a slow net loss with 1.8 but if I kept a larger stockpile before finding iron tools I wouldn't have had an issue.

- Oil is very rare, so I don't bother repairing common weapons. It would be nice to see a small amount of oil/weapon repair kits in the shotgun messiah crates to keep at least one weapon well-maintained through regular use.

 

 

Still no forge book this time and the game is more fun without it. I like being able to make a special trip to the city and collect ammo and looking for a fight rather than safely mining or finding an option that just requires more salvaging. To keep things more interesting I'll be adding in a recipe in my own game to convert bullet tips into buckshot so that all ammo pre-forge has to be looted and re-purposed. I'm also debating just having the forge book add one to inventory when used and not allowing it to be crafted.

[Bingles]

[**** NEW RELEASE ****]

 

...

 

-Changed (reduced) the repair value of cloth to revert the change the Pimps made in 10.4 to increase it. Cloth is already way too common a resource with too limited use to have its one remaining mid to late game use buffed.

 

-Changed (decreased) the growth rate of all crops in the game. This doesn't represent my planned balance pass for farming, but upon reviewing the changes in the config files for 10.4, it was obvious the stock increase to growth rate was far too timid to have a significant impact, so I applied an additional multiplier across the board as a temporary measure pending further tweaking.

 

...

 

Ah, I see you are changing the crop timer. I made a mod very similar to yours and I set the crop growth to be 3X longer and the plants only yield 1 vegetable when harvested. What are your planned changes?

 

I'm only on day 10 of my play through so I haven't been able to relax long enough to start a garden plot (and only recently found my copy of the Farmer's Almanac.) So I am very interested in what you come up with for balance.

 

I also see you didn't like the yucca fruits dropping from cactus. Neither did I, so I removed it, but my longest shelter was a brick building I found out in the desert and I was constantly starving to death. So I set yucca fruit to be harvestable from Cactus06 (the one that is flowering) and reduced its biome spawn rate. Then I changed the yucca juice recipe to use yucca fruit and voila! food and water in the desert, just not much of it.

[FlowerChild]

- Deer are pigs are incredibly rare. I saw 4 deer in 17 days playing. That felt low until I considered just how much venison I got from each. Pigs took too much ammo or time and generally only gave 1 pork so I stopped bothering.

 

Stealth kills really help with hunting, as does a hunting rifle.

 

- Hardware store loot felt really off. Out of three shops the first I found nothing but repair tools and fireaxes, on the second I found the same plus two augurs, and on the third I found a hoe, sledgehammer, pickaxe, nailgun, and chainsaw plus the abundant fireaxes and repair tools. About half of all crates were empty.

 

Yeah, I still need to perform a proper balance pass on both the tool and gun stores. I'm still too focused on staying out of the city as a player due to habit, and I will likely need to bump up the difficulty of it as well.

 

- Ammo is still kind of an issue. What worked for keeping stocked was to kill cops with a hunting/sniper rifle and turn the 9mm into 762. It did keep me well supplied in ammo, but weapons outside of the two rifles felt too useless/narrow. Pistols were too much work to maintain so i just spent the ammo loaded and dropped them. Shotgun is basically only used to kill dogs if I'm low on health.

 

Ammo is really intended to be a rarity in the mod until you can make your own from scratch. It plays into the hunting balance quite a bit.

 

 

- Oil is very rare, so I don't bother repairing common weapons. It would be nice to see a small amount of oil/weapon repair kits in the shotgun messiah crates to keep at least one weapon well-maintained through regular use.

 

That makes some sense. I'll take a look at it when I further balance the gun store loot.

 

I also see you didn't like the yucca fruits dropping from cactus. Neither did I, so I removed it, but my longest shelter was a brick building I found out in the desert and I was constantly starving to death. So I set yucca fruit to be harvestable from Cactus06 (the one that is flowering) and reduced its biome spawn rate. Then I changed the yucca juice recipe to use yucca fruit and voila! food and water in the desert, just not much of it.

 

Personally, I prefer the desert to not be survivable unless you take trips outside of it for hunting and water. I'm a big fan of each biome (potentially) having its own unique gameplay style, and not for them to just be reskins of each other. Being able to sustain yourself indefinitely in a desert just feels very very wrong IMO and serves to water down gameplay diversity.

[Yag Alone]

Hello there,

It seems there is a recipe conflict between the CrushedGoldenRod and the goldenrod seed :

 

<recipe name="goldenrodSeed" count="4" scrapable="False" craft_time="1" >

<ingredient name="goldenrod" count="1" grid="0, 0"/>

</recipe>

...

<recipe name="CrushedGoldenrod" count="1" scrapable="False" craft_time="5" >

<ingredient name="goldenrod" count="1" grid="0, 0"/>

</recipe>

 

I suggest to change the crushed goldenrod recipe to a recipe similar to the cornmeal (for consistency) :

<recipe name="CrushedGoldenrod" count="2" scrapable="False" craft_time="5" >

<ingredient name="goldenrod" count="1" grid="0, -1"/>

<ingredient name="goldenrod" count="1" grid="0, 0"/>

</recipe>

 

Hope I won't get fired upon...

[FlowerChild]

Hello there,

It seems there is a recipe conflict between the CrushedGoldenRod and the goldenrod seed :

 

You're absolutely right. Will take care of that.

[MadTeddyBear]

Ammo is really intended to be a rarity in the mod until you can make your own from scratch. It plays into the hunting balance quite a bit.

 

In that case it might be worth reducing the drops from zombie cops significantly. One out of four cops usually drops a pile of 10-16 9mm ammo, and each one takes one stealth headshot to kill with a hunting rifle. If you break it all down into tips and loot casings from trash piles to make 762 you'll easily and consistently gain ammo. My first trip into the city doing this took me from 10 shots to 90 before I ran out of gunpowder. You also get a pistol from almost every other cop, and since each one can get up to 15 rabbits food stops being an issue at that point as well (keep 4-6 for hunting, use extras to kill more cops).

[FlowerChild]

In that case it might be worth reducing the drops from zombie cops significantly. One out of four cops usually drops a pile of 10-16 9mm ammo, and each one takes one stealth headshot to kill with a hunting rifle. If you break it all down into tips and loot casings from trash piles to make 762 you'll easily and consistently gain ammo. My first trip into the city doing this took me from 10 shots to 90 before I ran out of gunpowder. You also get a pistol from almost every other cop, and since each one can get up to 15 rabbits food stops being an issue at that point as well (keep 4-6 for hunting, use extras to kill more cops).

 

Cool, good info man. Sounds like a reduction in both ammo and pistol drops on them is in order.

[boro]

I just registered to say thanks for this great mod.

 

I'm on my 5th game, I restart whenever I die, averaging about 1 or 2 weeks, which I like (mind that I use 25% durability, 0 loot/craft time, rest is as recommended settings). I usually die in the city or from random retardedness on my end. Some feedback:

- The book ratio is pretty much spot on, I always lack a few essential ones which makes for varied gameplay.

- I haven't found a beaker yet, it seems incredibly rare. I think I found pretty much everything else at some point.

- There's also a lack of animal fat, since the fat guys don't have it. I'm having issues with getting enough for candles to light my base, let alone making gascans, but I don't have a beaker anyway (nor a forge a lot of times). I don't mind having little leather or animal food though, there's still enough food even without farming, at least for a couple of weeks.

- The increased speed of animals results in melee hunting to be just abusing AI/pathing bugs and their slow speed through water. If you want melee hunting to be viable, maybe change their running speed to 98% of players running speed, if not, speed them up in water (if possible). Maybe also just add a slight bit more deers and less rabbits.

- Zombie loot is perhaps too weak, it's almost pointless to loot them. I'd add rare animal fat and oil drop.

- I'd like to put down a sleeping bag just for the compas icon, so I can use my waypoint marker freely.

- I noticed the contents of a coffin in the church changing each time I open it, don't know if it's your mod or the base game doing that. Also the jacket color is sometimes not what it says, never noticed that before. Gunsafes in a trashcontainer seem impossible to open, they just fall through.

 

These are all just minor things I wanted to say, thank you for taking an already great game to an entire new level.

[sarudak]

In that case it might be worth reducing the drops from zombie cops significantly. One out of four cops usually drops a pile of 10-16 9mm ammo, and each one takes one stealth headshot to kill with a hunting rifle. If you break it all down into tips and loot casings from trash piles to make 762 you'll easily and consistently gain ammo. My first trip into the city doing this took me from 10 shots to 90 before I ran out of gunpowder. You also get a pistol from almost every other cop, and since each one can get up to 15 rabbits food stops being an issue at that point as well (keep 4-6 for hunting, use extras to kill more cops).

 

Wait you're breaking all the ammo down for tips? Where are you getting the gunpowder? If you're breaking down the 9mm ammo for gunpowder too then you need 4 rounds for every 762 which by your math gives you a net loss.

[sarudak]

So I whimped out on my first game and set the zombie aggression down so I could get back on my feet. Then I of course quickly got bored.

 

Then I started a new game. The difficulty difference is night and day now that I know better how to kite zombies and what to look for to find loot as well as how to get through houses faster. Much much more enjoyable although it felt maybe too easy.

 

I'm on day 15 now. I've got most of the basic books (including all the forge books) but I haven't found intro to carpentry which has led to planks being one of my most treasured possessions as I need them to get in and out of my safe rooms and to upgrade logs the first level so I can then add iron (which I have plenty of). I really like the progression being tied to what books you get because the game plays differently based on what you find and when (even if some bits are a bit weird like unlocking concrete construction before I can cut logs into planks). Overall the game has been a blast with this mod thank you for sharing your work.

 

Some things that I feel like maybe could be looked at:

 

-Hunting with a pistol feels a little too easy. I can pretty much trade bullets 1 for 1 for rabbits and can even take out pigs with 3-4 bullets. Not sure if this is intended but I don't feel like I really need a hunting rifle at all.

 

-Wastelands are cornucopias of food. Once you are able to handle a few dogs and bees those places are lousy with coolers lying out in the open. Not sure what to do about that as I really wouldn't want the drop rate on the cooler to be lowered since it's one of the more exciting loot containers to find early game when you're starving but if you could somehow decrease the amount of coolers that show up in the wasteland that would be awesome.

 

-Wood frames are to easy to use as removable entry ways since you can place them, walk on them and then pick them up again like an item. Not sure if there's anything you can do about this given the modding capabilities but I've taken to completely blocking off the room I'm staying in with logs and getting in and out using windows and wood frames as removable stairways. It feels pretty gamey and makes surviving the night easier than it probably should be.

[FlowerChild]

Wait you're breaking all the ammo down for tips? Where are you getting the gunpowder? If you're breaking down the 9mm ammo for gunpowder too then you need 4 rounds for every 762 which by your math gives you a net loss.

 

I would assume that he had found the basic chemistry book and thus could make his own gunpowder.

 

-Hunting with a pistol feels a little too easy. I can pretty much trade bullets 1 for 1 for rabbits and can even take out pigs with 3-4 bullets. Not sure if this is intended but I don't feel like I really need a hunting rifle at all.

 

I'd actually like to tone the abundance of rabbits way down, but I don't believe I can do that right now with the way the .xml files work. Apparently, I can only adjust the abundance of animals relative to each other, but not as a whole.

 

-Wastelands are cornucopias of food. Once you are able to handle a few dogs and bees those places are lousy with coolers lying out in the open. Not sure what to do about that as I really wouldn't want the drop rate on the cooler to be lowered since it's one of the more exciting loot containers to find early game when you're starving but if you could somehow decrease the amount of coolers that show up in the wasteland that would be awesome.

 

Good point. I'd like to get rid of the coolers entirely from the wasteland, but unfortunately I believe they're baked right into the ruined building prefabs and thus my ability to alter them is limited.

 

I'll ponder on it though.

 

-Wood frames are to easy to use as removable entry ways since you can place them, walk on them and then pick them up again like an item. Not sure if there's anything you can do about this given the modding capabilities but I've taken to completely blocking off the room I'm staying in with logs and getting in and out using windows and wood frames as removable stairways. It feels pretty gamey and makes surviving the night easier than it probably should be.

 

Same thing applies to sofas, so you don't even need wood frames to do the above. Unfortunately again, it's a problem I'm continuing to think about, but which I've yet to find a reasonable solution for given my limited editing abilities in 7 Days.

[sarudak]

Yeah I figured it was probably modding limitations. So we just need the devs to play the mod, love it, and then hire you on as designer?

[FlowerChild]

Yeah I figured it was probably modding limitations. So we just need the devs to play the mod, love it, and then hire you on as designer?

 

Hehe...no, if you take a look at the rest of the forums I suspect if that ever happened there would be blood running through the streets

 

I try to avoid other areas of the forums as the amount of "All these zombies are stifling my creativity!" sentiment causes me severe head pain

[Renegrade]

Good point. I'd like to get rid of the coolers entirely from the wasteland, but unfortunately I believe they're baked right into the ruined building prefabs and thus my ability to alter them is limited.

 

Regarding this: If the ammo-per-kill for rabbits is a problem, and they can't be modded down, perhaps a buff is in order? I believe they have like ten health and a pistol hits for twenty. If they had thirty or fifty health, it would take two or three shots to take 'em down..

 

(I've been working on a gag easy-mode mod, and I noticed that maxhealth is moddable in xml directly~)

[sarudak]

So I tried to post this before but the forum ate my post Here's the short of it:

 

-Vegetable stew should probably just be removed or nerfed extremely as it only requires potatoes and corn, is better than rabbit stew and doesn't smell.

 

-Farming is definitely too easy and fast. Especially corn gives so much for the effort.

 

-Removing corn and blueberries from plains and snow biomes pushes blueberry pie to late game where it feels wanting in comparison to the other late game food options especially since it requires foraging for eggs. (not really a big deal but it makes farming blueberries pointless)

 

-Guns and gun parts are too common after you get the pickaxe. Ammo still feels incredibly rare.

 

-On traps. I hesitate to say this but log spikes are just too good. They are the go to trap every time. Constant damage, interrupt, little to no maintenance, and cheap. I don't even bother with mines, wood spikes or barbed wire because of them.

 

I just passed day 42 and have been having a blast although I've definitely reached the point where the challenge is lacking. The only thing I'm really missing is I haven't found a beaker yet so antibiotics are my most valued possession (next to my sniper rifle) I think I'm just unlucky because I found three in my previous shorter game. I also haven't found a chainsaw or augur even after looting 5 hardware stores (little disappointing there maybe they're too rare? Or I'm just unlucky again?). One part away from an SMG and three from a magnum but can't say I really feel the need for either. I feel like I want to restart. Trying to think of some way to make it even more challenging to keep it interesting without just turning up the zombies which just sounds boring.