Uncle Al
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Posts posted by Uncle Al
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39 minutes ago, theFlu said:
For a greppy answer:
loot.xml: <loot_settings poi_tier_mod="0.05,0.1,0.15,0.2,0.25" poi_tier_bonus="3,6,9,12,15" /> biomes.xml: <biome name="snow" topsoil_block="terrSnow" biomemapcolor="#FFFFFF" lootstage_modifier = "1" lootstage_bonus="20"> <biome name="pine_forest" topsoil_block="terrForestGround" biomemapcolor="#004000" lootstage_modifier = "0" lootstage_bonus="0"> <biome name="desert" topsoil_block="terrDesertGround" biomemapcolor="#FFE477" lootstage_modifier = "0.5" lootstage_bonus="10"> <biome name="wasteland" topsoil_block="terrDestroyedStone" biomemapcolor="#ffa800" lootstage_modifier = "1.5" lootstage_bonus="30"> <biome name="burnt_forest" topsoil_block="terrBurntForestGround" biomemapcolor="#ba00ff" lootstage_modifier = "0.5" lootstage_bonus="10">
What does that mean? Both the biomes and POIs give a multiplier and a constant boost. I don't remember the exact formula, but it's pretty basic math.
Wasteland gives a multiplier of 1.5 (but I guess it's better read as a 2.5, because that "pine forest zero" wouldn't make much sense otherwise.. ). Tier 5 POIs give a 0.25 (would be a 1.25 to compare to the 2.5). And the constant parts are 2x (15 vs 30) for the wasteland as well => the biome is pretty dominant.
I don't see a problem there; I'd say the biome (esp wasteland) is more significant for difficulty. You can take ages to clear a POI in the forest, but taking it slow in the wasteland is not exactly easy. If you're not able to quickly clear a POI, you'll have trouble in the wasteland nights.
Yes, thanks, much better explanation.
I'd done the x2.5 +30 in my head for Wasteland but didn't explain it well at all.
Still being inside a POI come nightfall in the wasteland is a big deal, but the impact is much less for other biomes. I'd certainly say a T4 snow is usually easier than a T5 desert, but the snow POI will give a significantly higher loot stage.
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59 minutes ago, zztong said:
Interesting. Are those additive? That is, a T5 in the Wasteland would result in +255? Or are you suggesting the T5 bonus overrides the Wasteland bonus?
They're additive.
My understanding is you add the flat bonuses (Biome, POI, things like lucky goggles) then take that number and apply multipliers like lucky looter skill or candy.
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7 hours ago, ElDudorino said:
About existing T5s, I absolutely do think T5 PoIs should have loot distributed throughout them and not just in the 'loot room' but also that they should have better rolls for good loot than they do since they're currently very underwhelming.
I definitely agree that the balance between biome modifier and POI Tier modifier is out of whack currently. That's a numerical balance change so I'd expect to see it revisited right up into beta.
Currently at a gamestage of 100 a T5 POI gives something like a +75 loot stage bonus. Being in the wasteland gives +180. That seems problematic.
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1 hour ago, Laz Man said:
I'm all for reducing loot room cheesing, however, if anything more is done about it, it hopefully shouldn't nerf off quest exploration.
I believe this is a key point.
The issue isn't a quest one at all, it's that some POIs of the same tier have vastly different risk/reward ratios if the loot room is too easily accessible.
I appreciate the balancing of risk/reward while still promoting smart strategies that allow getting decent loot out of a POI without requiring pretty much a clear every time.
If the risk/reward was well balanced for different types of foray (e.g. total clear, surgical strike, maybe something in between for the largest POIs) so that a reasonable effort (in terms of time and zombie kills) had to be spent to achieve success, that would also make things like T5 fetch quests an option. I totally see why they're not with the current setup.
On that note, variable rewards in terms of trader progression for different quest types would be fantastic. Currently fetch and fetch clear both score 'reputation points' = POI tier while being wildly different in resources invested to complete.
I have a feeling this is stuff you folks are already looking at as a part of the factions, reputation system and whatnot slated for later alphas.
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7 hours ago, Laz Man said:
No way....everyone knows corn bread converts into cornnuts....😅
If it was a standard converter, maybe, but we're talking about legendary items so it almost certainly converts corn bread to cronuts:
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1 hour ago, Syphon583 said:
- Lastly, their comments regarding performance improvements make complete sense from a development standpoint. While we as players sometimes gripe about the poor performance in some cases, focusing on performance enhancements just does not make sense when systems and assets are still being finalized. That would likely result in wasted dev time and resources.
It's worth noting that Joel states they have a desired timeline for A21 release to tie in with external factors (I'm betting a dime to a dollar that's 'in time for the holidays and associated Steam sale' but he's not that specific) but they'll delay A21 release past that desired date if they cannot bring performance up to an acceptable level with the new features added in. His tone doesn't indicate they're having especial performance problems with the new content, just that this is standard practice for a deployable release (which it is).
It does highlight the 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' nature of optimising before feature lock, though. If they do too little, the game would be nigh unplayable on most systems. If they do too much, alphas would be coming out at a significantly slower rate than they currently do. Either way they get flak from vocal members of the community.
1 hour ago, SnowDog1942 said:Im looking forward to the next 3 years as they get closer to gold
completely fine with me, honestly.
I'm guessing you'll only start demanding gold once working showers are in.
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4 hours ago, bdubyah said:
Because being able to craft every single thing is dumb. There should be some things you can only find in loot. And, by rare item, did you mean something that is loot only? Because if you did....then what's the difference in looting the weapon or the item to craft it? Crafting something has the benefit of being able to sit on your ass and do nothing while crafting it. Looting means being out and taking risks and there should be rewards for that. If you can craft a legendary weapon then it isn't legendary. Just doesn't make sense to me. This whole "I should be able to sit in my base and craft everything I will ever need" mindset is odd to me. Looting is and will always be a core part of the game. If you don't want to loot that's fine, but then you miss out on cool stuff.
'Rare item required to craft top tier/legendary' has occured to me too. It's worked quite well in other games. Roguestones/White Diamonds and what have you. Having loot only rare craft ingredients is not the same as having top quality gear be completely uncraftable. The differences between looting the weapon and the crafting item are:
- You only get the full benefit of the 'rare crafting item' IF you've also invested in crafting skill. On the flip side, you get some choice as to how it's used rather than a weapon/armour drop where the item may be completely useless to you.
- Your investment in crafting skill isn't suddenly invalidated by a drop. Spending your game obsessively chasing specific crafting magazines only to have a Q6 drop make all that effort totally redundant feels bad, even though you've mechanically improved. Getting a Q6/legendary drop should not feel bad.
- You can promote hard choices: Imagine a rare optional crafting ingredient that raises the quality of what you craft by one level. Do you use it now or save it for later? Do you craft a top quality mid tier item, or a mid quality top tier item or save it until you can craft Q5 top tier stuf (maxed crafting skill) and use it to craft a Q6 top tier? That's an interesting choice...
Definitely 'I can sit at home and craft everything' is not good gameplay, but 'looting eventually makes my crafting skills pointless' isn't either. 'I'm a great crafter so occasionally my looting gives me the chance to craft something just as good as what can be found by looting' is good game play, to my mind.
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4 hours ago, Cazmyr said:
3. In regards to the terrain in the wasteland. The burnt forest and wasteland were combined in the recent past. That is cool. The biggest thing is that because of that, even when outside cities, the ground is littered with I-Beams and piles of cinder blocks. This makes driving the 4x4 an arduous task. Is this the intent? To have there be a negative when using the late-mid to late game vehicle when in the late game biome? It has great inventory, great speed, but you can't go anywhere quickly unless you are on a road/ trail? Lastly I know the focus is gameplay of realism and I am totally cool with that, but I have to ask, How did all those cinder blocks and I-Beams get out there in the middle of the woods anyway?
This isn't a 'just use mods' response, merely an observation on one area where I think the devs missed a trick, and realistically we're probably too close to release to see significant changes in vehicles in the official game.
One of the things that's really impressed me about Bdubs vehicles mod is how varying the ability of vehicles to handle rough terrain makes for some interesting choices. The Humvee, for example, is slow to accelerate and pretty fuel thirsty, but will drive over wasteland terrain without too much difficulty. Proper all terrain vehicles like the SHERP and the big armoured personnel carriers laugh at wasteland terrain - I've discovered they'll actually drive over a roadside crash barrier with no trouble at all. A bit of I-beam wreckage really isn't an issue. They're relatively slow and fuel inefficient though.
At the other end of the spectrum you have stuff like the dune buggy that's fast, holds good storage and is very fuel efficient, but drives like a drunk hog on ice and will bottom out on a stiff blade of grass. It's great in the desert, who knew?, but a death trap in the wasteland.
I don't see the sort of vast proliferation of vehicles in that mod happening in the base game, but improving the 4x4s performance in rough terrain a little seems like a possible tweak. Its vanilla performance as far as hill climbing and rough terrain goes is pretty horrible.
If there was even one other high storage vehicle option added to the base game then moving the current performance of the 4x4 to a pickup, sedan or similar and giving the existing 4x4 decent off road capability, at the cost of a little speed and fuel efficiency, would seem like a reasonable solution.
I'm not sure vehicle mods that affect off road capability are feasible, as the shape of the vehicle object probably has as much to do with handling terrain as the unity vehicle stats (top speed, acceleration, handling, etc.).
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1 hour ago, Kyram said:
Ok lower the amount of water in loot sure but completely rework it that's over kill.
Water in loot isn't really the current issue, it's that you can regenerate water infinitely with a campfire. Something had to happen to break the 'empty jar + body of water + campfire = drinkable water' paradigm. Visualise how trivial food would be if eating anything left a dirty plate behind and heating dirty plates in a fire made food...
Sure there's other ways they could have done it, mostly revolving around different purification methods and different grades of water cleanliness, but some kind of rework was needed if water scarcity was going to be an actual gameplay driver beyond day one.
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2 hours ago, sillls said:
No more throwing a spear? I haven't been on the forum for a while now. Why was spear throwing removed from the game?
Because spears are getting a proper power attack like other weapons.
Spear throwing was always a gimmick and no power attack made spears pretty much the worst weapon choice going, so it's a good trade off.
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4 hours ago, theFlu said:
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to convey here. If I read it as you've written it, it implies that volume-2 zeds would lose agro if you increase your distance to them after triggering? That doesn't seem to be the case in my testing, not now nor back during that Jan thread testing session.
I don't think that's your intent; I could try to guess your intent, but I'd rather ask for clarification.
Sorry, you're right, that's not my intention. As far as I'm aware the stealth distance calculation only matters the instant you trigger the spawn. You can't 'increase the distance' after they've spawned. A zombie either spawns with sight of you or it doesn't
You can restealth, obviously, but that's a totally different thing.
3 hours ago, theFlu said:I spun up my test world to check; I wasn't able to sneak an attack volume with 5/5 perk at midnight with a headlight on. It might not be auto-fail, but the effect of the headlight to the AI stealth values is massive. A torch has a lesser effect, but I wasn't able to sneak my test spot with one of those either. The distance to the furthest zed at trigger is pretty long, about 13-14 blocks.
It might not be a hard rule, but it seems pretty flawless for a rule-of-thumb.
Thanks for testing. I never actually tested the auto fail for carrying a light as it was a flat out developer statement that this was the case. I habitually don't stealth with a light source active in game so it never really comes up. Always better to have tested though.
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1 hour ago, theFlu said:
This is "SleeperVolumeFlags", right?
With a "grep SleeperVolumeFlags *.xml" (under Data/Prefabs/POIs), and visual inspection.. I'm getting about 40% of 2's, 50% of 0's, just a couple of 1's. I'm kinda confused here?
Hmm looks like they changed the behaviour of type 2s, not the number of them. I've updated my previous post accordingly.
Basically it doesn't matter now whether it's a 0, 1 or 2, zombies will only have you as a target if they're closer than the stealth distance calculated when you tripped the spawn. There's some direct testing of stealthing up to a spawn in a '2' volume in the thread I linked earlier, which shows that type 2 volumes no longer automatically break stealth.
Certainly that's been my experience, I haven't found any spots that cannot be stealthed, just some that are really hard, because where you trigger the spawn is in very bright light and/or you get spawns appearing very close to the trigger spot.
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8 hours ago, zztong said:
I think I'm mixing in Attack volumes when I don't mean to. Attack are the default volumes, right? I think I just mean Trigger volumes when we talk of an ambush that I thought ignored stealth. I thought entry into a trigger volume alone, no other factors, triggered the encounter and that Z's would become immediately active and targeting the Player that triggered it.
The Combat Encounter comes to mind within a Gun Store. If you enter the combat encounter and proceed to the obvious loot, you trigger a bunch of other volumes and have to deal wth the Zs. But, if you ignore the loot and sneak the perimeter, you can stealth most/all of the place. I've never tried to stealth to the loot. I guess I'll have to do that.
I don't now the correct terms for them to be honest, in the code they're just 0, 1 and 2.
0 - Zombies spawn alert but with no target
1 - Zombies spawn asleep
2 - Zombies spawn targetted on the location of the triggering player
Zombies that spot the triggering player (closer than the calculated stealth distance) will target the triggering player directly.
Generally seems folk call 0 an active spawn, 1 a passive spawn and 2 an aggressive spawn but your milage may vary.
Stealthing to the loot in the shooting range works (the zombies will activate and move towards the centre but they don't have a fix on you) but you'll almost certainly have to do it at night. The centre area is totally exposed and will be very brightly lit in daytime so even with maxed out From the Shadows I think you'll get spotted by at least the closer zeds.
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1 hour ago, zztong said:
I wasn't aware there was a perk specific to attack volume sleepers. I've got to go do some reading. I hate to have overlooked that.
Laz Man is talking about 'From the Shadows' i.e. the stealth perk.
When a volume is triggered now, a distance in meters is calculated based on your ranks in the perk and how well lit you are (and if you have an active light source you automatically fail and all spawned zombies see you). That distance is then checked for each zombie that spawned from the trigger. If a zombie is closer than the calculated distance, they saw you and have aggro on you. You don't get a sneak attack damage boost either on those targets unless you disengage and restealth.
If a zombie was further away than the calculated distance when it spawns then it hasn't seen you. It will probably be active but it is not directly tracking you and you do get stealth damage boost on those zombies.
There are a few 'sleeper spawn' volumes still in the game, where the zombies don't even spawn active, but the majority were changed to attack volumes which behave as described above. All the auto-attack volumes were also changed to attack volumes, so zombies always have to pass the stealth check to see you upon spawning. There are a few spawn volumes here and there that are pretty much unstealthable unless you've broken into the volume by a non standard route, because one of the triggered zombies spawns basically on top of the entrance way and will always spot you as their distance from you is less than a meter, but those are very much a rarity.
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13 hours ago, faatal said:
I ported the penetration code from ranged to melee, so in certain cases the spear can...
Awesome! That alone is great but...
Don't tell me that means 'The Penetrator' perk will also function when using a spear?
That would be like, I don't know, synergy in the Perception tree or something.
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39 minutes ago, theFlu said:
If you fail a stealth check (or didn't even stealth) against an attack volume zed, the zed will follow you for 15/20 seconds. Not the spot you triggered it at, not just a general wander around, it will follow you wherever you go. Regardless of it's normal stealth detection abilities, for those 15 secs it hunts you.
I don't care what you call it, but it's a separate type of agro granted by a separate type of check, in a specific volume type, ignoring normal stealth rules. A difference discoverable in normal game play. Saying "auto-agro doesn't exist" while this new flaro-agro is practically the same thing (for the annoying parts of auto-agro) is just going to cause confusion.
I'd say it's totally different. The old auto aggro totally ignored stealth, no matter your skills or approach. The new version always gives you the chance to avoid the aggro if you can successfully remain hidden - the zeds will target your position not you.
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1 minute ago, theFlu said:
Yeh, that's what I was referring to as my last proper testing period. Faatal there comments about reducing the auto-agro timer down to 20 secs, I'm testing in A20.6 b9 right now and can't decide if it's 15s or 20.. but for those 15 or 20, you're the target without reprieve. That's enough for a runner to reach you; it's short enough that it doesn't bother me as a mechanic, but: the unavoidable agro it still there for attack volumes.
Are you sure that's 'auto' aggro? I'm pretty certain that only applies if you failed the stealth check for that particular zombie.
There was a definite statement that the true attack volumes, like the ones in the really wonky fire station where the designer had made every single encounter an auto aggro, were totally removed. Part of the trade off for the changes to stealth.
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10 minutes ago, theFlu said:
Last I checked, sometime during early A20, this was not the case; the zeds that get up as you trigger an attack volume, would keep running to the player, even if the player moved. Until the player was properly seen by the zed, "re-stealthing" was impossible.
A dev mentioned planning a change to have that "chase time" be shortened, but I haven't followed up to check if something was changed. It sounded like only the timing was going to change, such that the zeds would still run to the player for the timer duration at least.
If you're saying it has changed since then, then how does it work now? The zeds just sprint to the trigger location? Which patch have you tested this on so I can check?
Think the change was around January of this year.
There's a long discussion thread, including @Boidster 's extensive testing, which I've linked to below. The change to volumes happens during the course of the thread.
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1 hour ago, Roland said:
Some good guesses and one very very very good solution by Uncle AI. My clue does reference a character in the Hunger Games and in particular something he did "in" the 75th Hunger Games and it does signify changes to a weapon we use in our game that he used in that game-- which Uncle AI pretty much hit squarely on the head. Needless to say, if you ever thought the spear was lackluster and wished it did a bit more damage plus a power thrust rather than a throwing attack you will be happy.
If you only played the game because throwing the spear was one of the core elements of the game for you....I guess let's get #speargate started....
Woot! Spear love!
I've always loved perception and it might finally be coming into its own soon. It always suffered weapon wise because spears were....spears and sniper rifles have rather limited utility when you're only fighting enemies who don't shoot back. Spears sound to be getting a significant boost and for rifles, being able to outrange opponents might actually have some value once bandits make an appearance.
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Brutus the Hunger Games character has some association with spear throwing it appears. I have this second hand, I've neither read the books
nor watched the films. Brutus Denied = removal of thrown spears in favour of an actual power attack? That ignores the number elements though.
I must also remind myself 'Do not mistake wishes for truth', too. I really, really want spears to be good, or at least not absolutely @%$#ing horrible.
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23 minutes ago, Scyris said:
I'd be ok with it if they would "wake up" but then go into wander mode, as in they don't KNOW your there yet, they just wandering around like a outdoor zombie that hasn't noticed you yet, still can get sneak attack bonuses on them as long as they don't see/hear you.
That's exactly how stealth works now, for all spawns. The 'they know where you are and are actively targetting YOU' spawns (I believe they are termed attack volumes) have been removed. So long as you pass your stealth check, alert spawns are just moving to your location at the time they spawned, not actually targetting you, the player. Note that the stealth check generates a distance value dependent on your stealth skills and light, so a zombie or two close to you might 'pass' and be coming for you but the majority probably aren't.
The key thing is you have to react when a spawn happens. If you just sit still and try and snipe, even if you passed the stealth check on all the spawned zombies, eventually one will walk close enough to actually see you and start hitting you. If you move stealthily as soon as a spawn happens, you can usually happily knock all of them off from hiding without ever actually being under threat.
Even if you fail the initial stealth check for some or all of your targets, repositioning allows you an opportunity to restealth so long as you're not under direct observation from the zombies. I only really find this useful once you hit level 5 skill, as I'm not patient enough to wait on a restealth timer longer than 10 seconds, but it does work.
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Stealth is a lot more useful than you're giving it credit for already, but you have to know how to use it.
'Auto aggro' spawns have been removed. The zombies can either notice you as they spawn, because your skills are too low or the light is too bright or both (light is really important now), or they don't. Note that carrying an active light source means you will automatically fail stealth checks.
If they don't notice you they may be aggroed on your location but they're not locked on to you as a target. You can move quietly out the way, distract with rocks, and you still get a full stealth damage bonus even though they may be moving towards you.
Even if they do notice you on spawn, you can withdraw and rehide, which takes only 10 seconds at max stealth skill.
The old 'auto aggro' would effectively knock you out of stealth straight away in all cases, and that has gone.
Stealth still isn't great, just because in the face heavy weaponry often gets the job done faster, but the agility tree is awesome anyway so dropping a few points into stealth when you've already paid for the attribute itself to access other benefits is totally worth it.
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1 hour ago, Falcon197 said:
And to anyone thinking "oh this won't be abused at all" then consider what happens if you were to pave most of an active chunk to limit or prevent blood moon spawns altogether. The current system has its own potential exploits. I just want to stop having zombies appear inside of my walls.
Edit: I would even throw in an anti-exploit condition that says if and only if all the checks above fail and there's no ground available for spawns to migrate to, then the land claim / on terrain parameters get overridden to prevent people from trying to cover a chunk in land claims or pave everything and totally stop all spawns.
I don't think risk of exploit is really a concern. Maximum spawn distance is at least 100 blocks so to pave an area enough to block horde spawns you'd need 40,000 blocks. You're probably not doing that without using the creative menu, and if you have access to creative you can just turn off horde night in the game settings.
Or were you proposing horde zombies should only spawn in the player's active chunk? I thought a chunk is 16x16 so doing that will prevent horde spawns if you sit in the middle of a medium size base. Even if you don't block spawns, zombies would all appear magically at point blank range. That seems exactly what you don't want.
TFP, rightly, seem a lot more concerned about people accidentally doing stuff that breaks their game, like digging a basement and being totally safe by accident back when zombies couldn't dig, than preventing someone who is setting out to game the system with foreknowledge.
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12 hours ago, Falcon197 said:
For A21: is there any plan to squash the persisting sound bug where sleeper ambient effects (growls, snores, breathing) play on a loop inside of 100% custom structures that have active land claims and bedrolls? This has been quite the annoyance ever since sleepers were first implemented.
Also on land claims, I've noticed that bases I build that are big enough to fill but not exceed the borders of a land claim (usually with a perimeter wall setup just inside the land claim radius) will have issues on horde night where me and the other defenders will be situated near one edge of the land claim to deal with spawns but when the spawns move some zombies will pop up inside the land claim radius near the opposite edge, and end up inside our base or wall regardless of the land claim or player bedrolls.
My thinking is the blood moon spawns are configured to populate a certain distance away from players, and that setting is overriding the land claim and bedroll spawn in ways it shouldn't. Could there be a way to add conditional logic to force the spawns farther away so zombies end up outside the land claim radius or just redirect them to a new area via some kind of "IsLandClaimed: False" parameter?
I'm spitballing here.
Land claim blocks and bedrolls don't influence horde night spawns at all. They only affect POI respawns (LCB) or wilderness spawns (bedroll).
You're correct in that the closest a horde night zombie can spawn is about 35 blocks, so bases bigger than this can get problems with spawns inside the walls.
The solution appears to be to pave inside your walls. Horde night zombies have to spawn on dirt, rock, asphalt, topsoil or snow. There might be some other viable materials but generally speaking paving your courtyard stops the problem of spawns inside the walls. Even a wood floor will do the job.
Oh horde night zombies won't spawn on water, so theoretically flooding your courtyard would work. That's a bit of a pain to do with the messed up water mechanics but something I'm definitely going to try once new water is in.
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Alpha 21 Dev Diary
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