bloodmoth13
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Posts posted by bloodmoth13
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11 hours ago, schwanz9000 said:
Since you guys have seen/guessed most of them, here is the current list of Armors for A22.
As always, this list is still WIP and/or subject to change.
Armors previously shown that are NOT listed below, may or may not be used in a future update.
Primitive Outfit - Replacement for legacy plant fiber clothing. Adds some protection, but no buffs or bonuses.I think primitive should have some benefits that cover some of the weaknesses of early game, maybe lower stam usage and higher stealth, very low armour otherwise.
You would naturally want to transition to armour that helps you fight enemies anyway but you wouldnt try do that till you have a good food source and the stealth boost opens a more passive, sneaky and cowardly playstyle for the first few days till you have your @%$# together and can crack some skulls and get good loot.2 -
No it doesn't make sense
Yes it is worth it
No it doesn't bother me
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Honestly I think i prefered glass jars though I don't really miss it, the vitamin pills are basically a full bar of water if you have a bucket or water source.
I haven't really had a problem with food or water this alpha other than crafting glue. I barely invest in few collectors.
I think the food systems need a rework, nothing huge but having distinct tiers of food and benefits of each tier would help.
I have a slogan that I think works as a guide for this game: survive, strive, thrive.
Survival should be the focus of the first few weeks then players should
Strive to build stronger bases, get better resources and food and weapons till they can
Thrive and eat the best food use the best defense's and defend themselves with the best weapons.
Weapon tiers work well with this model, pipe weapons are the epitome of desperate survival, the mid tier weapons with iron and basic fire arms is when you strive for more success and by the time you are at the final tier you are thriving.
Food on the other hand feels far more binary and it's hard to really value end game food, a stack of 100 grilled meat is only slightly worse than a few stacks of meat stew, you don't really feel far better with higher tier food.
Water is also binary.
I think a great tradeoff for food is health costs, lower tier food at the survival stage costing health is a great tradeoff, but dysentery is too big a risk imo, if you are desperate enough to eat unhealthy food you can't risk dysentery.
If dysentery were a debuff that could stack to 100 I think it would be better to play around, eat garbage food all day, 12 dysentery each time, get over 100, lose everything. Also add dysentery to zombie attacks and it's a better gamble, eat up to 99 dysentery thinking you are safe, get hit by a zombie and get stunned for a second as you @%$# yourself and lose half your food.
Early game antibiotics could work with this model too, something that can suppress infections or reverse it for a bit but not cure it and it takes HP away. Infections suck, especially when you have zero options to cope with it.
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I had this problem first time. Turned off and went to bed, next day it reset and I found the switch that made an explosion on the roof.
It's not incredibly clear what to do, it's cool but clarity should come first
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Graphics =\= gameplay
Graphics is what you see
Gameplay is what you do
For what it's worth they have updated the graphics piecemeal over the games lifespan
Seems like a bait post
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I'm sure they are useful
I just don't like them in perception, I think they would be perfect for intellect who seem to favour base building. Explosives are great for defending a swarmed base but are a bit more risky in regular POIs where they can wake up too much.
Making traps and kill boxes suits the idea of intellect.
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That might be a start too, but you still get a free shot it's silly not to stealth kill everything if possible.
A part of my goal though was forcing stealth kills on moving targets and adding randomness to enemy locations, also bringing in distraction gameplay throwing stone decoys to round them up.
Lower stealth damage innately could also be okay but I think a headshot from stealth on weak zombies with a bow should be expected, if not maybe stun the zombie from stealth meaning you need to get another headshot as it's waking back up or something.
Still, fish barrel Sim should be zombie hunter sim
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Currently there are 3 states a zombie can be in (that I can tell)
Asleep, awake and alert.
Awake zombies will be the wanderers that just walk around aimlessly, sleepers are the fish in a barrel that we are comfy spawn killing and alert are the GPS homing monsters that will find you and annoy you.
currently sleepers are either asleep or alert, they won't wake up if they can't be alert to you so stealth kills are generally shooting fish in a barrel.
I think stealth gameplay (not power, gameplay) would be vastly improved if some zombies were spawned in in their middle state and just aimlessly wandered in houses to keep each playthrough different, currently once you learn the layout you can safely snipe everyone With little danger.
by spawn I mean if you walk into their trigger zone they wake up and wander without locking into you.
If you leave the area they can revert to sleep status to preserve resources.
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I always carry a gun for each ammo type
Current play through I have smg, magnum, double barrel, And pipe machine gun lol, my gun choices are incredibly skewed and I have no real use for rifle ammo since my smg is far better.
I voted for using all weapon types but it might be better off sticking to one since my pistols are very good while others suck.
I might try a game where I spec 1 pt into every ranged weapon type to see how my weapon types progress
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9 hours ago, Archael said:
You spec into miner, go to mine and... never get anything better than stone axe q1... so fast and so best.
Right that's the only issue is players are forced to loot.
It's a good direction that might need a few holes plugged but I don't think tfp want players to succeed as underground moles all game as mining forever isn't what the game is designed around, if you mine at night and loot during the day it's fine
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Current system is the best so far, you really get your build online fast and speccing into something feels great.
I hated buying skills it always felt like @%$#, like you buy a forge and you immediately find the schematic afterwards.
Learn by doing probably had the longest longevity and it made sense but honestly it wasn't good. Making a million stone axes and bugging the server every night was just yuck.
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20 minutes ago, RipClaw said:
The difference to a horde is that you have no limit how many zombies spawn. Then the game becomes a slide show.
Yeah actually it was far more intense and I wasn't prepared.
I had Stax of ammunition filling my bags so I dumped it all at my base thinking I'd make my ammo back since that was normal and ho boy. Can screamers call screamers? There were dozens of them
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Oh this is interesting, I just assumed my smh could only hold 1 mod at t1
This change is actually good, mods make up such an important part of weapon progression
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Screamers are weird this patch, Ive seen about 3 instances of them, first 2 I killed before a scream went off, last instance was a t4 and the @%$# didn't shut up, summoned wave after wave and when I finally killed her found 2 more I needed to kill.
Jumped on roof of a building (parkour op) and blew all my ammo barely making a dent in the horde, it was like a zombie movie it was great
Was down to bow and arrow in my agi build, ran out and tried kiting them through a minefield and they all went dormant thanks to the stealth perk, snuck around and stealth killed them all.
Was fun but I've never had that happen before it was like a horde night on a random day
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4 hours ago, meganoth said:
Really a ton? So far you listed zombies. Loot and weather are the only other random events I can think of and currently weather has nearly no consequences.
You can manage the current system. By prioritizing finding water and goldenrod and having always goldenrod tea with you.
What I like about your proposed system is the randomness mixed in with the managability. Adding a random value to your bar whenever you drink makes it somewhat manageable and gamey. The first few drinks are safe, but the higher the bar gets the more you are gambling and taking risks. For this to work the maximum value added should be high but seldom (for example rnd(2...8)*rnd(2...8) if the dysentery is reached at 100)
What I don't like is the idea that zombie attacks add to the bar, for principle reasons. Because zombie attacks already add many conditions like broken bones and infections, for the player it would just be part of the danger a zombie represents instead of a survival issue. Also players have vastly different skills in avoiding zombie hits, but the game should reward all skills a player can bring to the table, not condense your survival completely on how well you fight.
The entire game itself is random dude
The random chance for infection is a pain too, my idea was baking infection into the sickness system, so instead of getting a random chance for infection you get a % of sickness, when getting to a certain threshold you get infected. Certain zombies deal massive infection damage at late stages.
Obviously many things would need to be shuffled around and rebalanced.
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Quote
I wasn't intending to be unfair. It really did seem like you thought dysentery was part of the new water changes. If you say you know it already exists then I believe you.
No worries.
QuoteThat is a problem in my opinion. It represents a very mild and basic post-apocalyptic setting if you are able to NEVER eat or drink anything questionable at the start of the game when you are weak and vulnerable and supposedly scraping by to survive.
I agree
QuoteI don't think bad events should be completely avoidable. There should be random setbacks that you come back from and overcome and react to. Where is there any kind of adaptive gameplay and hard choices and risk if every single possible negative outcome is completely deterministic and not only deterministic but by your standard measured and marked out on a bar so that you can know exactly how far to push it and then stop so that you never experience any setback or weakness other than when you make an overt mistake. Random chance of good or bad events makes a world feel more alive and independently living outside of the player's control. Eliminating random events and making everything something that can be gamed and controlled makes the world feel fake and contrived.
Bad events arent entirely avoidable regardless and there is already a ton of random events that are a blast to interact with. A random zombie wandering into your clay pit or a horde appearing when your base isnt finished. Those are good things to adapt to. You are constantly adapting to changes in the game and thats the way it should be. Then there are lesser things like getting hungry making you prioritize food, being thirsty making you look for a water source, needing ammo making you mine for lead or being sick making you look for medicine or better quality food. These are also things you react to by preparing . If we applied the dysentery rule to other things the game would be insanely annoying, like getting a bleed effect from looting a cabinet because you 'cut yourself on the counter' or something. Getting a cut from not being careful around zombies though is the right kind of bad.
QuoteI agree and give you the point on this. There is a degree of feeling that something is going to make you sick if you eat or drink it. That being said, I think that being able to track such things with another bar on the HUD is bad gameplay and goes too far beyond having a sense that something might make you sick and more into the realm of having nanites in your blood stream communicating with a chip implanted in your brain giving you biometric feedback that someone without such tech wouldn't really know.
While having hud bars for everything might feel too gamey and lose immersion we already have it for health and we have bars for hunger and thirst. Its really no different to those. If the game could make me feel hungry or thirsty or sick then we could remove them, but conveying stimulus like that is impossible (and im pretty certain playing a game that makes you feel horrible would be awful)
So status bars are the best compromise we can get. Its also an incredibly simple solution.
I mean we could apply that same argument to everything else on the hud, the exact argument applies to health, i could get cut up and mangled and not have any idea whether im going to survive or die. Sometimes you get tapped on the arm by a zombie and you die instantly (because you were on 1 health) but thats just the way the game works, its how you convey information to players that is incredibly important. You could hide the health bar too but you would need another way to communicate that information. The game might feel even more immersive but i imagine players would feel incredibly frustrated with no information bars to communicate health, hunger or thirst. Sickness wouldnt be any different, in fact we have debuff timers already where we know what percentage of infection we have or how many seconds left of dysentery we have. I dont think a sickness bar that consolidates some of the debuffs would really ruin immersion for anyone. (Also i originally thought of this idea as a replacement to infections which could be interesting to interact with a 'sickness' system)
QuoteWhat choice? You stop after 4 drinks. Period. There is no choice there. With a random chance the chance that you will get sick builds with every drink. You might get sick with the first one but maybe not until you drink five but maybe that sixth will still be okay so now its time to choose whether to risk it or not. In addition, if you know to stop at 4 and thus always avoid ever getting sick, you never have the follow-up choices that are involved with getting the cure and dealing with the hindrance the sickness imposes. You block out a swath of choices by knowing exactly to stop at 4 drinks. Luck can be the catalyst for a lot of interesting choices and victories that never emerge if there is no luck involved.
I see what you are saying but i think you are making too many assumptions here. Perhaps that is my fault for not giving better examples so i will try to communicate as best i can what i mean.
I agree that its a problem that i never get dysentery, but i think making it a core part of the early game where you either go thirsty or get the runs if you are unlucky isnt great. Playing blackjack with the poor food you get at the start is more interesting, try eat as much awful food as you can without getting sick is a lot more fun than rolling a bad roll and facing consequences. Also the reward of not getting dysentery really isnt enough to ever feel like you are getting lucky, its the kind of risk/reward where you only ever feel unlucky since 5% is low enought that you feel like you shouldnt get ill but you do.
Also i suggested making zombie attacks inflict a small amount of sickness on you, this will mean that you cant just eat 4 rotten meat/murky water and be fine, you will be at high risk of getting sick from zombie attacks. I also suggested some mitigating factors early game where you can craft items that reduce it a small amount like goldenrod tea perhaps giving a buff that reduces sickness by a small amount over time (perhaps something like 10% per minute for 1 minute per drink) so you can give yourself sidequests to stay healthy instead of just gunning for the power loot.
This would actually create more decision making since you cant just cure it, you need to manage it till its gone. The way the debuffs interact with the spec could be different too, perhaps after getting to 75% sickness you get dysentery, when you go below your dysentery is cured. Id expect the way debuffs interact with a new system would be revised too, perhaps at 100% instead of getting dysentery you get infection and more sickness after that adds to infection (which could replace the current infection system)
QuoteThe fun factor is going to vary from person to person so I can't address that. You know what is fun for you. Its interesting that you don't like the gameplay but you are for goldenrod tea only curing another meter by 10%. The current gameplay is that goldenrod tea completely cures you of the ailment and vitamins can make you immune so that if you eat a vitamin before drinking you have 0% chance of getting sick in the first place. But that is where the progression comes in. At first you have no vitamins or tea so you have to be lucky in order to avoid dysentery. But then your supply of vitamins starts to grow, you have a bunch of tea, and then you have dew collectors and soon the struggle for clean water is a memory. But if we remove the elements of luck and make it completely 100% avoidable then there will never be a memory of having had that struggle the progression is non-existent.
Your mistake is thinking i want things to be easier. The fact that vitamins make you immune and goldenrod is an instant cure go completely against making dysentery a problem at all. The problem is that the sickness is too random to get and too easy to fix. At the moment its just in the realm of annoying where in the first week you get frustrated and get dysentery maybe once or twice from doing nothing wrong. I want things to be risks through the whole game, making later stages have more effective ways of avoiding and managing the problems but still being a conscious thing to mitigate and avoid. After getting the dew collecters its a non-issue, thats binary.
I just want to have better control over those things, im happy to get punished for playing poorly, but im not happy to be punished for being unlucky.
QuoteBut I know it is a gaming preference. Nobody is right or wrong it is just how each person has fun. I wish the chance to vomit was back. Some of my most memorable games were when I vomited out all my food on Day 1 and had to spend the first couple of days trying to get my hunger under control. It was tough but felt good when I overcame it. Anyway....you'll get a chance to see whether or not the chance for dysentery is too upsetting for your gameplay style or not. Maybe it will still be largely negligible being that you are an experienced player and can get food and water pretty easily over new players. It may not even be an issue for you.
See, i kind of want it to be an issue, just an issue i can manage. Random chance just means if im unlucky im unlucky.
I was thinking that getting to 100 sickness would make you vomit and reduce you to 75%. I didnt realize vomiting was removed tbh, i genuinely want it integrated into the sickness system! Its the exact kind of punishment id expect, even worse is the idea that i play blackjack with my sickness and get to 90% sick, go into a poi, get mobbed by a few zombies that tap me up to 100% and i vomit right there in the middle of a fight. that would be horiffic.
Numbers subject to balance of course, it would be up to TFP to decide how they would want it implemented if at all so any numbers i suggest are just examples. Im just presenting a concept that i think would make things feel a little more deterministic.
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On 11/11/2022 at 1:29 PM, Roland said:
Just the fact that you think this is a new feature underscores how little of a presence murky water has had in the game. The percent chance of getting dysentery has been in the game for years. It shows how badly something needed to change to make dysentery and murky water even have relevance in the game
It can be mitigated by taking vitamins or by drinking goldenrod tea and I’m talking right now in A20 as well as in A21.
in real life we don’t know when we will get sick. Someone can smoke and get lung cancer and someone else never does. I don’t like the idea of a bar that you watch and game with— drinking right up to the limit and then stopping because you know the next drink will cause sickness. We don’t know those things nor have that much control.
Bad events that happen to us can be random and then we deal with overcoming rather than having full knowledge about our biochemistry and exactly how much to drink and then never having a bad event happen.
Im fully aware that its in the game currently thats an unfair representation.
Its completely avoidable currently and i make a point to NEVER eat or drink bad food because i hate random chances for something to fail. I even prefered when bad food just made you lose health to outdo the hunger meter since trading health for stamina is a fair choice.
Also you are comparing cancer to a stomach ache, completely different. I can generally tell if something upsets my stomach if i eat something bad, I also suggested slightly random sickness values for the bad water/food because you cant tell how sick something will make you.
Id rather 100% chance of getting dyssentry after 5 murky waters than a 5% chance on one. It brings choice to my actions beyond luck.
I also suggested zombies inflicting sickness (infected wounds) that would make consuming rotten food/water more risky.
I think also the dyssentry minigame isnt fun, you get lower stamina and do everything slower for a bit, that just makes gameplay feel bad. I like the idea of prioritizing cures and stuff, which i think a sickness meter would help with (Perhaps goldenrod reduces sickness by 10%, so if im at 80% sickness i will prioritize curing it before entering a POI)
Getting punished for playing poorly consistently (eating bad food and getting struck by zombies plenty) is fine, broken bones are fine, sprained ankles are fine, i dont hate those things, its punishment for playing poorly, i dont even want less dyssentry, i just want to have better interaction with it than random chance when i cant get clean water.
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On 11/11/2022 at 1:09 PM, Jinx_DG said:
Would there be a medication to bring your "sickness bar" back down to zero at any point during it's progress to full?
If so, what's the difference between taking something to "cure" your sickness bar or taking something to cure your dyssentry?
If not, I'd have to hard pass on that idea because at some point the bar would get full and you'd get sick anyways.
Yes, medicine to bring it down in steps. One pill might reduce it by 20%, a top tier 100%.
Problem early game or in desperate situations, solved late game.
The difference is that it would be something you can manage over time instead of a binary 'sick OR cured' state, you will be dealing with incremental steps which would be smoother.
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2 hours ago, Roland said:
The water from water sources is murky. It isn't fresh drinkable water without consequence. You take damage from drinking straight from a water source and you have a small chance to get dysentery. So really it is just for emergencies until you can get your dew collector farm up and running. You will also find some murky water already in bottled form as you loot which you can take home and boil up for clean water also in a jar. You are still going to be able to carry jars of water around with you in your inventory. But the jars disappears after you drink the water so you can't refill them.
Im not excited about randomly getting dyssentry, no matter how small the chance.
Id rather a different system where you can drink a certain amount of impure water before getting sick. Heres a quick idea, you have a sickness bar, eating rotten food, drinking murky water or getting a hit from a zombie fills the bar up by a small percent, at 100% you either vomit or get dyssentry.
With this system you dont get randomly punished for doing something small wrong but repeatedly doing something small wrong. Basically its blackjack instead of the lottery. This i think would make sense, rather than risking a big punishment for small gains you get a big punishment for 'playing wrong'
I think that will be a far better system, even if it results in more dyssentry in the long run players will at least think to themselves 'i deserve this i should have watched out for my sickness bar' instead of '5%? this is bull@%$#!'.
You could play into this too with some new medication and recipes to manage sickness.
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On 9/4/2022 at 7:30 AM, Syphon583 said:
I kind of see your point, but that's not really how un-treated water works. IRL, it's very much a random chance of getting sick from drinking untreated water. Depending on the source that chance might be higher or lower, but there's no magic formula saying you can drink under X amount of water and be safe from contracting a disease.
Is it harsh, though? Let's be honest, getting dysentery in this game does not have a big enough effect to really worry that much about. Plus treating dysentery in-game is relatively easy. Just make sure you save those goldenrod teas when you find them because right now they have very little use. This change will actually make that item more useful.
If we can't make clean water we're not making tea, and if we can make tea without making clean water then we should just be making tea in the first place.
Some water is more infectious than others, you can reasonably determine that in real life but adding tainted natural water Vs clean would mean more data on blocks which would be bad. Your immune system can cope with a certain amount of contamination at a time, but over a certain level you get infected. I think my idea isnt too unrealistic to be frank and an easy compromise would be a random infection level within a range.
My suggestion also included tying it in with the 'infected' status if that wasn't clear so infection was guaranteed after a certain level of hygiene loss.
So for example you have a hygiene meter of 100, every dirty action can decrease it by a random amount, dirty water decreases it by 3-10, a zombies dirty fingernails 5-12, wading through dirty water 0-1 per second maybe, infected wounds 1-2 per second etc etc.
Numbers subjected to tuning better than my napkin math but ATM I'm never tempted to drink murky water because a random chance sucks. If I could drink up to 80% and avoid direct confrontation with zeds I would actually be tempted. Then there could be alcohol wipes for restoring hygiene that would be commonly needed and great for padding chem store shelves.
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Hey if we are getting forced to drink murky water can we rework dysentry?
Currently the random punishment is too... Well random and harsh for doing something you are being forced to.
What I suggest is having a hygiene meter, every dirty action decreases hygiene, getting clawed by a zombie, drinking murky water, wading through dirty water etc.
At certain intervals you get certain negative effects. Some debuffs deplete it quicker (open wounds get infected) and once you reach zero you get infected with that debuff we all hate.
This moves things from random chances to having to manage a certain number of bad events, you can drink murky water up to a point but if you get clawed by a zombie after that you get an infection.
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On 7/7/2022 at 4:09 PM, Crater Creator said:
I can get behind tap to power attack and hold to throw. Good idea!
I agree with BFT2020 though on the point that knives and spears are separate weapon classes, so giving both the same abilities may break the mold. For example as much as I'd love to get stealth kills at spear range like I can with a knife, I can see how that'd probably be OP.
In my opinion the more places you can use tech the better, especially since it can help justify the cost of development.
Knives as stealth weapons compete with bows. Being free is honestly not such a great deal when you can recover bolts and arrows, so it would just be 'more free' but with a higher risk (losing your melee weapon) for the skill check and the reward being using less arrows (which aren't super expensive).
On that note I'd like a military combat knife that feels more like the iron knife for t3 that you can throw and leave machete as hack only. Machete for normal combat military knife for stealth.
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I made this suggestion before and I'll do it again!
Tapping right click does a power thrust, holding right click charges up a throw. If you throw you lost it, if you tap you do a normal power hit.
Currently tapping drops it at your feet which is largely useless outside of comic relief.
Bonus: you can now throw knives with the same controls, holding right-click throws your knife.
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18 hours ago, Jinx_DG said:
I agree with this. Just because I may not use a perk doesn't mean it's useless. In every game I've played that utilizes a skill tree there are numerous skills/perks I don't use. Always has been and no doubt always will be.
I beg to differ. There are plenty of T1 poi's with safes in them. Plus you have the wonderful glorious new atm's.
With T3 and higher quests now having locked end chests, lockpicks can be handy dandy, especially if you're not into beating the thing to death with a pickaxe. I've had a few playthroughs where finding lockpicks was nigh impossible and spending 300 dukes per is not ever happening. (ok, maybe I did once, but I was desperate and it was a true treasure map chest. Don't judge.) It's rare, but I have used that perk so I could make my own lockpicks and thank god it was available so I could.
They are qol but not mandatory. By the time you can craft them you can craft iron tools which can generally deal with safes easy enough. They are nice for ATMs that's true, but overall I find that they are still far too niche just like treasure hunter so I still think they should be combined
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Version 1.0 (Alpha 22) Dev Diary
in News & Announcements
Posted
I feel like we need quantity over quality. We could definitely use a bit of both, high damage psuedosmart zombies and swarms of really dumb bullet sponges