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Posts posted by bloodmoth13

  1. On 1/13/2022 at 12:17 PM, pApA^LeGBa said:

    Someone said those zombies appeared in places where you wouldn´t see them before the apocalypse. But that is true for the biker, the nurse and the worker also. Also the amount of women running around in a short black dress is riddiculous tbh.  I´d really like to know the real reasons.



    Dirty women in short dresses is how the pandemic began.

    • Haha 2
  2. We definitely need a variety of zombies to accomplish different roles. Hunter zombies to seek out the most direct path to player, generic shambles that have a16 ai and maybe a couple of others.

    The only problem with tfps approach to solving zombie ai is that they do a one size fits all approach, having different levels of zombie intelligence would make it harder to exploit all zombies. Nothing worse than expecting zombies at your front door but they are bashing every other area instead so you have to leave your main kill room to deal with the rest.

    I miss gore blocks that would allow zeds to effectively build a ladder up to the player, if they could do a mountain of corpses thing that could be great, mountain of corpses like ants is pretty iconic zombie stuff



    27 minutes ago, Orclover said:

    We started setting up horde bases in harder areas hoping to make the horde night harder/longer.  But even in the wasteland we have more exciting "events" by summoning screamers and forcing the zeds to hit max cap in any other zone compared to Horde Night (250 zeds I think is server cap which brings things to pretty low framerate but was fun for a while).  We were able to make them kinda exciting on occasion by using console to spawn in an extra 25 zeds at a time but then you feel guilty for basically cheating in a harder horde.


    Basically after the first 60 days we kinda felt like we had "won".  We kept playing for a while but we are out of content again, and waiting on A21.

    Try make riskier horde bases or harder difficulty and set some rules like cobblestone only, no traps, no bombs etc.

    The most fun I have is when the zeds breakthrough my first line of defenses and I need to fall back. 

  3. I'm happy with the lumberjack. I think the variety of zombies is very good now along with how they can fit into most environments.

    I do think they need to do a pass on skin tones though, the crawler needs a little work with its guts being jagged, also it's very pale in comparison to the socialite zombie which looks healthy other than the blood

  4. 4 hours ago, Roland said:


    I disagree. It never gets old when you see one of your mates step forward to take down that zombie and you see the spear drop at their feet. Hilarious!


    But yeah, it could be improved.

    I stand corrected, the comedy throw has some uses. I think a min throw that matches the stam cost or a regular power attack that keeps the spear in hand.

  5. 11 minutes ago, hiemfire said:

    Could also tie toggling between throwing and a strong thrust to holding the reload key and selecting from a radial menu much like with ammo in the other ranged weapons.

    I have though of that too, but I think just making a right click tap do a power thrust without releasing and removing the useless levels of throw should accomplish all that is needed. It saves having to fuss with the radial dial.

    For that matter though I also think it would be cool to throw knives with the same method, and I don't mind if it's a radial dial or charge to throw. Daggers could definitely use a longer range attack for stealth kills :p

    • Like 1
  6. 12 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

    Everyone agrees that spears are the weakest melee weapon in 7D2D right now.

    If you had to change something, I' add some improvement to the melee use of the spear, not to the throwing part (which is already good enough).


    Once I have a good higher tier spear, I don't even throw it anymore since I'm worried it could glitch into the ground or something. :rolleyes2:

    It just needs a right click to do a regular slow power attack with holding it doing a throw.

    Dropping the spear at your feet isn't doing anyone any favors

    • Like 1
  7. I really like spears for their reach, the power attack though is very awkward. I'd like tapping right click to do a regular power attack that doesn't drop your weapon while charging it will throw it.

    Fists are great, been ages since I used sledges, knives felt weak when using them and stun baton feels useless without the lightning but fully modded is absolutely insane.

    Haven't ever done clubs, I know they are good but I just don't care for them, will try them one day though...

  8. Yeah i thought it was pretty good when trying it but i never used clubs so didnt have any reference, after comparing stats i realized that it was actually just a reskinned wooden club :/


    It functions nice enough but it doesnt currently belong in the game as is and needs to fit into its own niche.


  9. 7 hours ago, meganoth said:


    Your fertilizer scheme is a possible method, no question. And by changing the returns of fertilized ground one could even add the feature that LotL 0 does not allow a self-sufficient farm. Which is something the developers seem to want and you desperately don't want as you consider it broken that way. Unless you can convince them that one of their current design goals with farming is wrong you already have lost no matter what your scheme does


    One disadvantage may be that fertilizer needs one bit in world blocks reserved for recording the "fertilized" state, a very scarce and expensive resource. This may have been part of the reason to remove fertilizer and the old way of farming and my guess is that that alone is a hard sell (unless there is an easy alternative available).


    Another disadvantage from my point is that fertilizer makes farming even more work (producing fertilizer and fertilizing). A point TFP might actually like and that would probably appeal to Roland as well. At the moment more work would make farming so unappealing that most players would not bother anymore. Naturally that can be corrected by balancing meat resources.



    old fertilizer required poo, my fertilizer has farmable nitrate, bone and rotten meat, which seems fairly abundant and replenishes with zombie dogs, vultures and zombie bears, or rotten piles on the ground, so it shouldnt be too hard to get imo.


    With fertilizer your farm size would by necessity be much smaller, currently you are limited almost only by how many plots you can put seeds into (provided LotL3) with my system you would only use as many plots as you could realistically fertilize, so in some ways it would be more work (in general it would, but i think that is fine as a cost for producing food) but in others it would make infinite sized farms less realistic.


    I did consider unfertilized farms only providing 1 crop per harvest with 3 harvests per seed which would be inefficient but i decided that the effort of harvesting 3 times for one meager crop is enough of a cost to justify it. A self sustaining farm of only unfertilized crops would be a nightmare for upkeep as it would take 15 harvests to get one more seed, by the time you get a self sustaining farm that is profitable from only farming you will be weeks into the game looting at least t3 PoIs so i think it is justified. 

  10. 2 hours ago, Roland said:


    I think your bigger problem is playing with 3 other mates who aren't helping you with farming. As the perked player it should be you harvesting and crafting seeds but then you should just stick the seeds in a container and let them do all the planting.


    It might also be better for you to stay at LOTL 2 and have one or more of them spend a point to get to LOTL 1 and have everyone contribute by creating farms and sharing surplus. Then it isn't one person farming to feed four but two or three people farming to feed four. 


    As a team you guys have to talk about the fact that you don't necessarily want to go that deep into Fort so farming isn't going to all be piled on you-- it's going to be shared.


    I don't have a problem with this model. If TFP were to switch to this I wouldn't be mad. If a mod was made that changed farming to this I would definitely check it out.


    I also think the current model is fine. I'd have to actually play both to decide which I like better and would prefer.


    As far as spoilage, I think an ongoing spoilage mechanic that is a timer would be too hard to implement. I've been thinking a lot about an idea that on the bloodmoon all uncanned food has a chance to change to spoil. I was even thinking maybe a 30% chance to spoil and a 1% chance to change into some kind of super sludge with cool benefits when used in a recipe...

    Thanks for taking a look and giving feedback, appreciate that. Might need to look into modding so I don't just go on about ideas that nobody can try.

    I like spoilage as a concept but I feel like it would only work on single player, imagine playing on a public server and your food supplies are all destroyed because you couldn't play for a week.

    It's a difficult problem to solve because I really like the idea of advancing cooking with working fridges, ovens and tinning stations

    • Like 1
  11. Just now, Diragor said:

    I have lotl fully upgraded and yeah I have more than enough food, but still need to invest something to get that said food and thats nice as it is. You just can't balance out farming without food spoilage, cause no matter how hard they make it to get seeds or crops, just build more farm pots and you're fine again. Thats why I'm fine with it and you should too. this game isn't about super realistic farming, it's about fighting zombie hordes.

    I dont think food spoilage would fix all the issues, but it sure as hell would make things super clunky and likely force really bad gaming habits where the game decides when you play it instead of the other way around. 

    Having to build a fridge and a canning station though would thematically feel like good milestones for the game, and being able to craft tinned food would be cool. 

    I think i like the concept of it far more than i would like the reality of it.


    The only problem with farming imo is that there is simply no cost for producing large quantities of food, the only cost is set up costs and meager perk investment and you have pretty much infinite food. With fertilizer as a secondary cost you need to balance how much fertilizer you have with seeds, so turning your 100 corn into 20 seeds if you can only craft 10 fertilizer would be wasteful, and it would also put pressure on only focusing on the most needed crops rather than everything and you would be trading resources from glue and gunpowder and whatever recipes use rotten meat.




  12. 1 hour ago, Roland said:


    No. I wasn't saying that. My disagreement with you was limited to your premise that purchasing LotL is mandatory to engage in farming and that should not be. You can do a rudimentary sort of farming as an unskilled character that is perfectly sufficient for creating dishes that can supplement your food. You will have access to some dishes sometimes as your luck with finding seeds dictates. That is a level of engagement with farming that is perfectly fine for spending zero points in farming skills.


    By spending one single point your engagement with farming increases by quite a bit. With a lot of work and patience you can get a farm going and to the size needed to all but guarantee its continuance. 


    So I do not believe that there is zero engagement with farming before you spend a point and you do not have to invest heavily at all in LotL in order to be able to increase your engagement with it. That is all I am disagreeing with.


    I also stated that I'm all for improving farming which means, in my opinion, adding features that will help limit it further from becoming an infinite free food source whether one point two points or three points are spent on LotL. Perhaps your suggestions to this end would be fine. I didn't read past the point where you said that farming needed to be fixed because it shouldn't be mandatory to spend points to be able to engage in farming.


    As I said, I would love for meat harvesting to get a nerf as well. I don't want infinite food sources but I also don't think that the player should have to worry about starvation for the entire length of the game. There should be a point where the food crisis is solved and the player can focus on other things. I wouldn't mind occasional events that could throw the player for a loop like something destroying the farm or a player's store of food so that you have to recover from that.



    Well read my original post beyond that point, skip to my 'solution' and see if you agree. My goal is to have seeds go back to being profitable (they cost time already that should be enough) but just barely, and shifting the profitability to fertilizer, which add ongoing cost to replenishing food stocks. 



    I agree that food shouldnt be overly abundant but it needs to be accessible as playing the game with zero food is just painful, but forcing a player to focus on getting food over weapons or building material should be enough.

  13. 7 minutes ago, fragtzack said:



     I seen no issues with farming in a20 after getting the 3X Living Off the Land perk.


    Yes, different then other alphas but not broken.


    I kinda enjoyed the randomness of crop harvesting in a20 now. Before a20, seemed like such a bore as constant 100% accurate prediction harvests was zzz.


    If anything, would like to see farming removed in this game because once sustainable farming is achieved.. no more hunger pains.


    IMHO, the "fix to farming" is to make farming harder and food storage difficult:


    1. Harvests that rot if not harvested in time

    2. Infestation to destroy crops

    3. Bandits to steal stored food/water

    4. Spoilage


    "Fixing farming" is NOT going back to old alpha methods, IMHO.


    $(7D2D)  != $(Stardew Valley)

    You didn't read op did you?

    I suggest you do because my solution was never reverting to old alphas.


    Lotl3 is free infinite food that removes food economy, my suggestion fixed that by requiring a constant cost for farming that requires harvesting other materials


    4 minutes ago, Orclover said:

    Honestly adjusting the xml file to leave the seedling in the ground after harvest has been a sanity saver.  We frankly don't even care what they do to farming any more since its a meaningless part of the game for our group.  Sure we will happily go out and kill literally hundreds of animals weekly to feed 5 people to make stews, not for the meat.  Oh no.  But for the lopsided fat drop rate that is required for any food that is worth 2 spits.  We are tossing meat out the window half the time and just want the fat to make stuff.  And yes, harvesting skills are maxed.


    So use a mod or just edit the xml file to adjust the game to something a bit closer to sanity, like keeping the crop in the ground.  Then the devs can do whatever they want with future patches and it won't matter to you.

    I don't want infinite food though, read op.

    I want early game seed economy to make sense for players that don't have living off the land, and I want an ongoing cost for efficient farming.

    Farming is broken without living off the land as seeds cost more than they produce and are a trap investment. Also once you have living off the land food is beyond sustainable and it is very easy to have free infinite food, which means hunger is never a danger. Having a cost for good harvests means capping how much excess food you can create.

  14. Just now, pApA^LeGBa said:

    I don´t ignore that. It´s still free food. All the things you need for fertilizer are things you would collect anyways. It´s not a real cost. Bones and rotten meat come from the same source.  And that is not an infinite source btw. Your method would bring up severe problems for multiplayer. Especially on servers with up to 50 people.


    Nitrate is something you mine anyways, the part you need for fertilizer is small compared to what you need for gunpowder. 

    Those resources are used elsewhere, you would be trading glue and gunpowder for fertilizer, and if you are already swimming in those materials I highly doubt that food scarcity is an issue in your game.

    It's still not free, food needs to be available but not too abundant and the healthiest way to control that is to make it take time and or resources to create. It has a cost it's not free, you are trading one resource for another, it is a dishonest statement that is equivalent to saying that food is free at the traders because you are collecting dukes anyway.

    1 minute ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

    Also wanna add that you not really have to invest any time on getting rotten meat/bones. You get that by questing wich we do anyways all the time. Once you reach T5 you have dogs and birds in every quest location. T4 already has a lot of them and in T2 and T3 you just need to know wich locations to take when questing.

    Food scarcity shouldn't be an issue if you are doing t5s

  15. 4 minutes ago, Roland said:


    I disagree with this premise and therefore the whole idea that anything needs to be fixed. You can plant seeds and harvest crops without any perks. That shows a rudimentary knowledge of growing things. It is fair and with what you find and can purchase and are gifted from quests you will have enough seeds to do a lot of planting and harvesting over the course of the game without ever spending a single point in Living off the Land.


    By spending one single point you can create self sustaining farms if that is what you want to do. That is a very easy and small investment: One Single Point.


    Frankly, they should do the same thing with harvesting meat from animals and make what you cut from the animal have a 50% chance of being rotten flesh and then for every rank you buy in huntsman your chances of getting good meat go up.


    I would love to see some improvements and depth returned to farming but they don't need to fix the current state where unperked individuals can plant seeds and grow crops and harvest fruit that they can then use in recipes while perked individuals can get self-sustaining farms established. All of it is engaging in farming but just the degree varies.

    So you think food should be more scarce but infinite free food from one point in living off the land is perfectly fine?

    I just don't understand this mindset! Currently it's very easy to get infinite free food like everyone keeps reminding me with 1 point in living off the land. THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM


    I am not advocating infinite free food with little investment, I want efficient farming to cost fertilizer which takes existing valuable materials and requires them to get decent returns. Living off the land gets you tons of food for no cost which just deletes food scarcity.

    Fertilizer removes food scarcity at an ongoing cost that scales with your farm size.

    Making seeds cost efficient off the bat might seem like I'm advocating free infinite food but if you really think getting 6 crops from 5 and 3 harvests over, what, 6 hours is going to remove all of your food problems I really don't think you understand what I am suggesting. That will almost never remove your food problems in the game, but it will make seeds profitable for desperate players.


  16. 19 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:


    Farming gets you the good stuff constantly. Looting/buying/hunting doesn´t do that. That´s why points are needed. For the good stuff that gives you a stamina bonus, lasts longer, heals more and even can give you an attribute bonus with the sham chowder. 


    It just a few points. Fortitude is something where points should be put in anyways, no matter wich build you play.


    It´s a good system, those few points you need really don´t hurt. Not at all. I do play survivalist and i don´t miss those points.


    With fertilizer you would have a net gain of 4 guaranteed per seed. That´s infinite food with no skill invested. As we had in A19 and even more effective.  


    Not gonna happen. TFP doesn´t want that. If you want to suggest a new method, it needs to be in a way that a guaranteed net gain needs skill points.  

    Fertilizer isn't free though! You are turning one resource into another, if you can't farm fertilizer materials you are not getting bonuses, which means trading time and resources for food, which is exactly what the cost for food should be. There is still a cost that you seem to be intentionally ignoring, you can't grow bones, nitrate and rotten meat in a farm plot, you still need to loot or harvest them

  17. 1 minute ago, meganoth said:

    Yes. Not comparable.

    A farmer without LotL does NOT turn crops into seeds (if he is right in his head). He just plants seeds he finds or buys. He gets crops out of that process as well as any other farmer, just not a self-sustaining farm.

    The a20 changes didn't fix the infinite food problem it merely made farming broken for anyone without living off the land. My idea fixes infinite food as a problem without breaking farming initially. Getting one free crop after 3 harvests from 1 seed isn't a realistic infinite supply of food, but it is at least profitable.


    The cost of fertilizer to make those harvests profitable which comes from sources that need to be looted or harvested offsets the bonuses to harvesting as you are not creating resources from nothing but rather turning inedible resources into edible ones.


    This would likely be a nerf to overall food supplies but a buff to early game food creation without making it inefficient

  18. 15 minutes ago, DiegoLBC1 said:


    You also get resources by Mining, but investing in the Mining Skills makes you get a lot more resources I don't see any difference, as you yourself say that farming is not mandatory. Likewise, you don't need to mine either, but if you do, you'll find that investing points in Mining helps a lot. It's the same thing.

    Its not comparable at all! Turning crops to seeds loses crops. It's an inefficient system, it would be like mining having a 50% chance for you to lose ore from you bag, if that was the case mining would be considered broken, and at no point did I suggest removing harvest bonus perks to LotL, you still get bonuses you just need to use fertilizer which is a limiting material.

    • Like 1
  19. 5 hours ago, Diragor said:

    I Love the farming change. It's more balanced than before and I like the randomness from getting seeds from farming. They did a good job and I'm glad that food doesn't spoil. That would be more survival-like, but more frustrating too...

    You like a20 farming as is? Is that with perk investment or without? Because without investment crafting seeds will generally lose you food whereas with lotl it's just the same as A19 with infinite food and nothing actually changed

  20. 8 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

    Your method has a guaranteed gain without skill points. @bloodmoth13 Just a matter of time to get infinite food without needing any skill. That´s exactly what TFP doesn´t want. If you want guaranteed infinite food it´s only fair having to invest skill points.


    And farming is just a part of food. You act like it´s the only food source. We do have a functioning food system. It works too well to be honest, food isn´t a problem at all, wich kinda sucks for a survival game.


    Day 4 evening, didn´t do any extra hunting besides what i saw on my travels, didn´t go out of my way for vending machines other than those i came across on my travels. I did harvest 2 farm POI´s and bought cans, vegetables and some cooked meals from the trader.


    That just shows me that the other sources are too lucrative and not that farming is.

    Farming is the only source that really requires investing time and resources and it's the only source players have direct control over.


    Maybe you missed how my idea would work, if you don't use fertilizer then you are only gaining 1 bonus crop after 3 harvests regardless of lolt, relying only on that would take forever to build up free food and honestly wouldn't be worth the effort, but crafting fertilizer would increase the yield which would cost other valuable resources.

    The system would require the and investment for imo a fair return. That is what the cost of reliable food should be.


    You getting lucky looting tons of food and getting it cheap from other sources has nothing to do with my idea, farming NEEDS to be functional which it isn't till investing in LotL right now. 

    5 hours ago, Jacknimble said:

    My biggest complaint about A20 farming is tedium. Adding yet another thing to plop into a plot exacerbates the issue rather than solving it.


    It's not a yield problem. Honestly LotL isn't necessary to eat, and it's cheap enough to max out that it seems balanced enough. I just hate spending all the time to craft and replant seeds.


    Even that gets better pretty quickly though. Once you have 20-30 meat stews in a box, just cycle a few harvests into all seeds. You'll go weeks without having to craft more (I use 10 of every crop top handle 2-3 people).


    Just give it some time and play with it. You'll need to find a new system that works for you. But I went from -hating- the A20 changes to impartial in about 50 hours of play

    That is with lotl though wasn't it?

    And with investment it basically turns back into free infinite food which imo was something that needed to be fixed as I outlined in op.

    And imo the system needs to be functional without skill investment, perks need to feel good but not mandatory. With LotL farming is basically à19 farming with more steps as there is still infinite free food.

    So hearing that it is good with LotL at any investment doesn't really change anything as it doesn't fix the problem of free infinite food or being viable without point investment. My problem was never that it wasn't lucrative but that actively putting effort into farming without perks is detrimental to food supply and investment in perks just reverts changes back to free infinite food.

  21. The system is fine but it does need some rebalancing.

    I think treasure hunter and the lockpicking perk could easily be merged as they are both far too niche to really be playstyles. I think forge and workbench need to be basic recipes that are always known, the limiter should be resources not luck or just picking int. I think salvaging and grease monkey should be merged and put in the int tree, as crafting skills feel bad if that's all they offer and cost reduction for something that you will likely only ever craft once feels bad.


    I think every branch needs one harvesting skill, int can have salvaging, strength mining, agi should have pelting, endurance has LotL and perception I guess has lucky looter. Less lucrative harvesting skills should get some other bonuses too like randomly harvesting a valuable item that you can sell at a trader (thinking of pelting specifically, you could harvest trophy heads that sell for good coin at the traders since bones and leather have a limited amount of uses)

  22. 1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

    Well it´s only a bad deal if you don´t invest enough skill points as you said. But it isn´t mandatory to have a farm to get enough food. You can easily play without farming and never starve. You see farming as a seperate thing, while it is just a part of the whole food mechanic.


    I had tons of meat on day 20 and only had some minor food issues for the first 2 days. You can even get the good stuff where you need vegetables to cook it. You can loot/buy/harvest a lot of vegetables and ready cooked meals. 


    Tell me one thing in the game where you can maximize the profit/effectivity without investing skill points and tell me why farming should be different please.


    This might sound a bit harsh, but if you can´t afford to spend those skill points, you dificulty is maybe too high.

    How is my suggestion maximizing profit without investing skill points? Living off the land will increase yields and lower the cost of farming. You will not get max profit without it.


    My suggestion makes the absolute baseline of farming functional and works as an introduction to the system. You build a plot, plant a seed, put on some fertilizer, harvest crops and profit. That is baseline farming, and the game needs the baseline to be functional. 


    It would be like if melee weapons had a percent chance to hurt yourself Instead of the enemy and that only went away after investing into perks. Melee wouldn't be functional without investment, sure there are other ways to deal damage so the system isn't broken but that part absolutely is because without investment it is not functional.


    I think my suggestion is very fair, it stops food from being free, even at max lotl, and allows easier access to it. It removes the clunky barrier of entry while lowering the ceiling of infinite free crops. It's a good system that solves both issues that I outlined.


    If there is going to be a good food system it simply needs to be functional, and I don't think there is any real argument against that.


    • Like 1
    • Prime Face Palm 1
  23. 22 hours ago, BarryTGash said:

    I play on 2 hour days, so more bloodmoon time, and inadvertently discovered that the BM horde starts all over again if you finish one and exit the game before 0400hrs (a surprise to be sure, the first time logging back in). Not a deliberate, planned, strategy but reasonably effective...

    I do this all the time. If i kill all the zombies i will log out and log back in if i have the resources to continue. 

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