ElDudorino
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Posts posted by ElDudorino
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The armor thing is a good point. Like in The Walking Dead, one character wears full riot armor for part of a day and can just walk through a horde of zombies shrugging off their bites. But then he gives it away and apparently it's the only armor on the planet because it never happens again and everybody goes back to walking around in tank tops and just hoping bites don't happen.
In reality, even on a hot day you'd probably cover up at least your most bitable parts.
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I'm not talking about any specific PoI. What I'm saying is that the argument against pickable door locks is invalidated by the fact that we can already destroy those doors very easily. If your goal is to make it so players can't break the path of a PoI, you've already failed and won't make things any worse by making the locks pickable. All you'd be doing is allowing a stealth/tactical alternative to existing functionality. And for this reason you are incorrect in thinking that you'd need to revisit and redesign any PoIs.
Do still keep steel doors unpickable and the difficulty in breaking them will discourage breaking the path but the argument against making lower-tier doors pickable fails at a fundamental level, and existing mods have shown that them being pickable is a pure improvement to the game with zero unintended consequences.
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Are you not aware that the player can already cut through a significant portion of the PoI by breaking the door, at less cost than it would be to lockpick? Breaking pre-steel doors is trivial even with stone tools and nearly instant with iron tools. It's like the argument against pickable door locks is coming from somebody playing a different game.
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3 minutes ago, Laz Man said:
If locking picking was ever introduced, level design would have to revisit every quest POI to analyze what adjustments are needed.
If breaking down doors or walls were possible, level design would have to... Wait. It IS possible.
Where is the actual difference as far as level pathing goes?
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Oh yeah I wouldn't even make it to night. I'd hit all the obvious PoIs because I sure as hell wouldn't be able to make my own and I'd either get shot or eaten somewhere around building #4.
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3 hours ago, katarynna said:
What I remember is that they would not want every door to be able to be lock picked. Because of this, they would have to go through each and every poi, decide which doors they don't want you to be able to pick, and changed those doors to a different block like "jammed door". Then they would make all doors they didn't change to be able to be picked.
That seems like such a pointless and arbitrary exercise. Why bother making some low-tier doors unpickable? If I can bash through a door in 10 seconds with a stone pick and axe at no cost other than noise, why can't I pick it in 30 at the potential cost of a couple lockpicks?
The game is already designed so you can bash your way off the intended path or build your way past it, so it's not like this would suddenly add sequence-breaking to the game. Yeah sure keep the hardest doors unpickable but something I could bash through with no effort, just make it pickable.
14 hours ago, Blake_ said:Caves. Kinyajuu answered that he might get into it if he has the time. That's an IF. Fingers crossed.
Did caves have zombies spawn in them when they existed, and would they spawn in them again if caves were back?
At one point I tried to create a modlet to make it so zombies could spawn inside of PoIs to spice things up, but I ran into the roadblock that zombies only ever spawn at the highest-elevation block at a given set by of coordinates. So what I ended up with was PoIs whose rooftops were covered in zombies but the insides were the same sleepers.
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8 hours ago, Blake_ said:
Pickable doors: Design desition. it would need a full redesign of ALL the POIs in the game, which count close to 1000. However, some final doors MIGHT happen to have a similar feature in the future, still in progress.
I'm confused. Why would this require a full redesign of all PoIs? You can already just break the doors.
I can see in places like Red Mesa that certain heavy-duty doors are meant to be kept locked but you could just make it so that anything steel-tier can't be picked.
I've recently been playing Undead Legacy which makes doors pickable and it's a nice improvement in my opinion without heavily impacting the game. Overall I'm not crazy about the full mod but some features like pickable doors and storage broadcasting are just obvious wins.
Anyway good topic, I like to see what people are doing to keep the game fresh. Maybe when a21 comes out I'll try what Roland does with the reversed speed settings. It sounds kinda intense since night sprinters at least have the weakness that they can only hear and can't see you for the most part.
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The thing isn't that the loot bonus is hard to quantify; it's that it's mostly pointless.
+3/4/5 to loot stage is nothing when you can have a loot stage of 100+ on day 1 and it goes up dramatically as you level and tackle harder PoIs. At best the bonus can push you over a breakpoint, e.g. if you need 80+ to have any chance of finding T2 melee gear and you only have 78 without the glasses, then the glasses will raise your odds from impossible to merely super low in that instance. Then the goggles will go back to doing pretty much nothing the next time you level up.
It just isn't a well thought-out bonus. For most playthroughs they'll never actually change the loot you find in any meaningful way, and you're better off with any other goggles (except when treasure hunting).
To make them useful, in my opinion the bonus should be changed to a percentage. Give them a bonus of 10% and they'll start to have meaning. It won't mean much in the pine forest but for players in the snow at decent levels they might be looking at a bonus of 20 or 30 points, which will be significant enough of the time that it'll be worth keeping on when looting.
Or, change them to give a loot amount bonus. Like how you can set your loot amount in the settings. The goggles could raise you enough that you'd find an extra bullet every couple of times you loot ammo, something like that.
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13 minutes ago, Syphon583 said:
Out of the many runs of this game that I've played, I don't think I've EVER had a set of Q6 steel tools by day 14. Unless you're playing on increased XP and sticking solely to the wasteland, I just don't see how this is possible, even then extremely unlikely.
Game stage and loot stage don't affect rewards. Biome/XP are irrelevant. If you are questing from day one and going at it hard you should be partway through tier 3 quests by the first horde night and either at or potentially finished with tier 5 by the second horde night. By the start of tier 5 you'd have 7 T4 rewards plus however many T4s you did after that towards your T5 tier completion.
Maybe the steel armor is more of a best-case scenario that wouldn't be as likely but having a Q6 steel club/machete plus pick/shovel/axe is expected. But again, this is only if you've been spamming quests. It's basically to show that doing anything else (i.e. playing the game 'normally') leads to dramatically slower progression than questing from day 1.
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That more or less sums it up. Fetch quests are 'better' than clear in that you'll get the same item reward in way less time and you'll get closer to tier completion, which is more important than the extra dukes from clears. Then when it comes to T4 clears you just need to make sure you have the right PoIs. This will depend on your map but if you have good PoIs nearby you can fly through them. A few of the T4s are only like 5-6 rooms in a straight line so you just have to sprint through and blast everybody.
If you take quests in places that are more spread out like the drive-in (which also requires door and wall breaking in I think 4 spots) you're going to hurt your clear time a lot. So pre-existing knowledge of the PoIs is a factor.
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One thing to bear in mind about quest rewards is that game/loot stage aren't taken into account. Somebody spamming quests will be easily decked out with Q6 steel tools weapons and armor before the second horde night, while someone ignoring traders will probably have Q3 *iron* tools/weapons and scrap armor. If you're already on day 50 when you start questing though you're not going to be as impressed by the individual quest rewards.
The completion rewards for higher tiers are always crazy, though. There's no scenario where 500 steel blocks isn't over-the-top as a prize. But especially in week 2/3 it's crazy to basically skip from a small cobblestone base to a medium-sized steel base, never even needing to touch concrete.
Also note that the Q6 steel tools and weapons are for tier 4 quests. I didn't notice a major difference between T4 and T5 individual quest rewards, though admittedly I moved on from T5 to T4 quests pretty quickly.
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It's worth noting that beyond the rewards being overpowered, the tier assigned to different quests is also kind of arbitrary at times. Some T4s can take all day but others are a breeze. Zelext? (the restaurant with the wine cellar boss room where the zombies don't attack you because the stairs have meaty railings) can be run through in like 1.5 game hours if you don't stop to loot the drink dispensers and other low-value containers. Same for the Shotgun Messiah with the shooting range, though its boss room at least is challenging if you try to speed-run it. Plus it has two loot rooms with locked containers which can slow you down, but if the longest part of s PoI is picking/breaking a couple locks then it's not very significant.
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4 hours ago, RipClaw said:
A question for all who want to have a limit. How many quests can you realistically do in a day with a default day length of 60 minutes? In the best case I can complete 2 or 3, depending on tier and distance. For most T5 I need more than one day and for the T4 it depends on the POI but there I can usually only complete a maximum of 2. Most of the time it is only one T4 POI.
I've done five T4s in a day as I recall. Definitely managed five T1-3s. The biggest limiting factor is your trader's proximity to the easiest T4s. Travel time can be longer than clear time on the easy T4s. Note that you can also get the T5 completion reward by doing 9 T4s. It's more efficient than doing T5s because I don't think anyone can clear more than two T5s in a day. (Though it's easy to do the hospital twice in a day.)
Note that I play on Warrior. Higher than that and the enemies are just too bullet spongy for me.
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I think the main change needed other than not resetting Shotgun Messiah is for the rewards to be less OP. It's crazy enough getting full sets of Q6 steel tools/melee from T4 quests in the first or second week just as standard single-quest rewards, but on top of that you get the absolutely insane tier completion rewards like 500 steel blocks and a full set of Q5-6 steel armor. If your trader is near a Zelext you can complete T4 and T5 in two days apiece to reap those sweet rewards.
I play without traders in vanilla because I no longer enjoy being fully geared out while my horde nights are still nothing more than a few feral party girls. And, trader quests discourage exploration. Going to another city with a lower-tier trader is an extremely inefficient use of your time. Staying in one area but exploring PoIs not included in quests is suboptimal. If you want to play the 'best' you're going to be caught in an endless loop of running the same fast-clear T4 PoIs over and over. It's too easy to fall into the trap of optimizing the fun out of the game, so I just don't allow myself to get involved with it.
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12 hours ago, Maharin said:
I'm going to make the Dance Dance Revolution mod that forces you to dazzle the zombies with your dance moves in order to kill them. Horde night will be a time of line dancing and other forms of group dancing ending with Thriller.
Um I would actually play this.
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I played a good bit of Darkness Falls a few months back and it referenced Wellness in a couple of texts but it didn't appear to be in the game when I died. I think it was removed.
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60% of the time it works every time.
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PoI sleeper volumes will be the same but the spawns will have some important differences. The wasteland has harder zombies outside, like a lot of zombie bears and zombie dogs. But the other thing is that the respawn rate specifically at night is set to something like 2 seconds, versus several minutes in the forest. So in the forest you can clear an area as loudly as you want and it'll just empty out. But in the wasteland, by the time you kill the last zombie spawned the first few will have respawned and zeroed in on your position, which creates a never-ending zombie loop unless you hide. So you could be fighting potentially hundreds of zombies overnight as they charge you nonstop, and they'll be harder zombies than what you find during a blood moon.
It's honestly kind of awesome but it is dangerous if you're not prepared for it. One of the few dangers in a20, really.
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Yeah, the wasteland gives great loot but it's balanced by the much more powerful spawns and tougher travel. Night in particular is crazy because if you make noise you can create an all-night horde, basically a harder version of a blood moon.
Snow also gives pretty great loot but it's not balanced by anything. It has the best visibility, most food, second-most loot, and basically no downsides. It's kinda easy mode.
I mean, you will see mountain lions and bears a lot, but just don't run up to them with a wooden club.
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Loot stage. It goes up as you level and also gets both flat and multiplier bonuses based on biome. Like when you first start the forest is loot stage 1, desert is like 27, snow is like 78, and wasteland is 105. The numbers are for sure wrong but basically the forest is the worst place to be for loot.
You'll find more guns in places like gun stores or police stations, though purses also often have handguns.
But yeah, PoIs are a bit funny now, they basically all have guaranteed loot rooms so it can make them a little samey. Still, for certain gear you will find more in specific places. Tools in the tool store, books at the book store, etc.
And if you want absurd loot, do trader quests. They're not restricted by loot stage and at tier 4/5 the rewards are crazy overpowered.
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Hi, I don't want wellness to come back. Thanks in advance!
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Yeah, to be fair, I consider most of those garbage perks other than Daring Adventurer which is absurdly overpowered, Better Barter which is very strong and Miner 69er which is a huge efficiency win that makes progress through much of the game faster. More than half the skills in the game I consider wasted points. I mean, animal tracking? Am I not already suffocating from being crushed beneath my stacks on stacks on stacks of steaks?
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1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:
If you are using the default settings, horde night is 6 hours long (22:00 to 4:00) every 7 days. That is literally just 3.6% of game time for 1 week. Stealth is a viable option for the remaining 96.4% of the time.
That's not a very compelling argument. Stealth works fine for trivial stuff, it just isn't usable for the main challenge of the game.
If it required less investment it might seem more worthwhile because you could dip into it the way one might dip into farming. As it is, you kinda have to gimp yourself where it matters most.
About diplomacy checks failing, I feel like that exists in most older RPGs. Fallout, Morrowind, Dark Sun, and many more. Not my favorite mechanic but it's not without precedent.
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I don't doubt that it's possible to sneak your way through a whole PoI without taking damage but it seems like it would just take 3x as long for no extra reward, and then on horde night every point towards stealth is a wasted point anyway because stealth is invalidated for the horde.
I guess I kinda get the appeal because I do get some joy from stealth-killing entire boss rooms without waking a single zombie, but I do it in steel armor without a single point in stealth just by not crossing the sleeper volume's trigger point. Doesn't work for the volumes where the zombies don't spawn until you pass the wake threshold but I figure that's where stealth is at its worst anyway so meh.
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How long would you survive a zombie apocalypse?
in General Discussion
Posted
Yeah, most zombie apocalypse media would never be able to show the rollout of the infection because it just wouldn't be believable. At least in The Walking Dead something has happened where anybody who dies for any reason will turn, which means that you don't need to let the zombies in to have a safe place become compromised, but anybody with half a brain would take steps to mitigate that risk and the military should have been able to maintain safe zones long-term if nothing else.
I guess for whatever reason most of us are willing to suspend disbelief by just not thinking too much about all the reasons a zombie apocalypse would be improbable even if zombies were real. We all just want to get straight to the part where there are zombies everywhere and measure our success or failure from there.