2 hours ago, theFlu said:My assumptions for motives in this thread are from.. what was it "When players get creative, TFP likes to complain about or kill it", something along those lines. Players got creative and buried 3 feet deep; TFP went in and killed it. Perfectly valid example for the snarky comment. I don't see a point arguing digging further than that, especially as we mostly agree with the main bits about it.
No.
That seems to apply to the entirety of the post above that line. But this one I can hopefully open for you: with "dropper base" I referred to any and all base designs that cause the zombies to take a path that they can't follow, leading them into dropping down to an earlier position on the path, creating an eternal loop. This includes various designs, for example, in order of "exploitativeness"
- a sledge turret at a narrow path
- a jumping puzzle or tight corners where some of the zeds fail to land
- electric hatches/door set to open when walked on
- half-block "bridge" topped with a half block "wall" (zeds think they can walk through half blocks, while also thinking they can walk on half blocks. Both are true, but in combination with a wedge tip, they try, get displaced by the wedge tip and fail)
The only source for "motives" in this discussion is a "like" in a snarky comment by someone other than me. You're reading a whole lot into it.
It has been a theme in this discussion, so I included it into my prediction. If you don't care for it, I can remove it:
Some players would be happy, and some might complain the game is too easy? Did something change?
Was there a point to the question? Maybe a motive?
I am not. I am describing the steps that have lead some to see it that way; they're not wrong about the steps, and as outsiders I can't blame them for the interpretation (in some cases).
Fair enough that the motives that some people assign to development changes that I described may not apply to you personally. You set yourself up as Old Crow's wingman and they are who I was originally talking to. If you don't subscribe to their ideas that's fine. You stepped into the debate on the side of someone who does believe TFP are anti-player so I mistakenly assumed you also held the same belief.
You did characterize the digging zombies example as an arms race which I still disagree. I don't blame people for their erroneous interpretations either. It is very typical for gamers to take changes to the game they are playing personally. It's pretty universal across all games and forums. It doesn't mean anyone is out to get them. As I said the steps result in the same outcome regardless of the developers' intent. Players must adapt their playstyles because the old way no longer works. Some will interpret such steps as a personal assault against them. They'd be wrong though.
Faatal is the one who coded the AI so that zombies trigger into area destruction mode when they can't detect a path to the player, or randomly forget their path, or (assuming you're correct) they fall off a ledge. He's pretty active here in the forum. Stick an @ in front of his name on the main thread and ask him if he made those changes to punish people who made bases that take advantage of dropping zombies. From my own readings and conversations with him I think he was simply seeking for more variability in zombie behavior and wasn't targeting specific play styles with a punishing attitude in mind even if it seems to you to be too coincidental that it happens when the zombie is 10 meters away from the player. But maybe he will answer and say that it was a measure to stop players playing in a particular fashion and he's glad they're all salty about it.