New Base Autoturret: Sniper

[GuardianReaper0]

Currently there is SMG and shotgun auto turrets, which go through 9mm and shotgun ammo, and have a fairly short range. 
 

Personally, I’d really like to see a sniper auto turret that uses 7.62 ammo. Slower ROF than the others but much better range and damage per round. Giving more options when it comes to thinning hordes and dealing with screamers, not to mention quickly eliminating pesky vultures.

[Riamus]

I'm curious... a lot of your suggestions come down to just making the game very easy.  Rad remover to essentially remove the highest tier zombies, turrets to wipe out zombies far away so they aren't reaching you, workstations that are very fast, etc.  Why do you want the game to be so easy?  A challenge is a good thing.  Sure, you can make things cost a lot to craft, but by end game, you're swimming in resources, so it doesn't matter.  You basically make end game a cakewalk with no challenge, causing you to just get bored more quickly.

 

Curiosity aside, I'm fine with a turret that uses 7.62mm ammo, but I don't think it needs to be a sniper/long range one.  Medium range like SMG and DPS similar to SMG or Shotgun turrets, whether that's a slow rate of fire and high damage or fast rate of fire with low damage or few shots before reloads or whatever.  That part doesn't really matter much to me, but it doesn't need to be long range or kill off zombies in a single shot.  That just makes things too easy.

 

And vultures at a horde base are hardly difficult to deal with.  A single turret that isn't targeting the ground and is placed at a corner of your roof away from the area where you'll be standing but pointing over where you are standing will kill every vulture without any problem.  It can even be a cheap junk turret.  Or, just have a roof over you and let them attack and they aren't going to get through.  You can even have a railing block that is rotated to make a roof that you can shoot through when you get tired of hearing the vulture pecking at the roof above you.  They are really the easiest enemy on horde night unless you are doing horde night in the open instead of at a base.

[GuardianReaper0]

4 hours ago, Riamus said:

I'm curious... a lot of your suggestions come down to just making the game very easy.  Rad remover to essentially remove the highest tier zombies, turrets to wipe out zombies far away so they aren't reaching you, workstations that are very fast, etc.  Why do you want the game to be so easy?  A challenge is a good thing.  Sure, you can make things cost a lot to craft, but by end game, you're swimming in resources, so it doesn't matter.  You basically make end game a cakewalk with no challenge, causing you to just get bored more quickly.

 

Curiosity aside, I'm fine with a turret that uses 7.62mm ammo, but I don't think it needs to be a sniper/long range one.  Medium range like SMG and DPS similar to SMG or Shotgun turrets, whether that's a slow rate of fire and high damage or fast rate of fire with low damage or few shots before reloads or whatever.  That part doesn't really matter much to me, but it doesn't need to be long range or kill off zombies in a single shot.  That just makes things too easy.

 

And vultures at a horde base are hardly difficult to deal with.  A single turret that isn't targeting the ground and is placed at a corner of your roof away from the area where you'll be standing but pointing over where you are standing will kill every vulture without any problem.  It can even be a cheap junk turret.  Or, just have a roof over you and let them attack and they aren't going to get through.  You can even have a railing block that is rotated to make a roof that you can shoot through when you get tired of hearing the vulture pecking at the roof above you.  They are really the easiest enemy on horde night unless you are doing horde night in the open instead of at a base.

That’s a fair question about my suggestions, and I’ll answer that first:

My suggestions are usually things to add more diversity of play into the game, so it’s not always the same one way to do things. 
 

It may make certain elements of the game easier, but ultimately it’s up to the player if they want to utilize it too. Think about it this way, creative mode is an option to all players, if they want to play in a game with it turned on or not. It’s up to the player if they want to use it, or play survival mode without it. The same applies to gear, weapons, perks, structures, etc. 

If a player wants to use it, they can, if not, don’t. 
 

I for one have played a few playthroughs since getting the new game (console) and am very quickly running out of things to do and ways to play. Adding alternative routes through items helps add ways to play the game.

 

Now, as far as THIS suggestion is concerned, I don’t think another AUTOMATED turret should be full auto. A manned one perhaps like I suggested a while back, but not one that targets on its own.

 

My reasoning for this is that if it were an automated machine gun turret, it would just overtake the smg turret’s role. So INSTEAD, I think it should be kind of unique. As I stated, low ROF and longer range, giving it more use when placed up high with a good perch. It doesn’t need to “one tap” all enemies by any stretch, but would be a nice way to thin hordes before they get into reach of other turrets. 
 

Additionally, the guys I play with don’t like dealing with forums, so I often post on their behalf. 
Which brings up my last note on this:

adding a sniper type turret can give players that are solo or small groups without a rifle player, a way to incorporate the feeling of a sniper/ guard tower into their bases, without it sitting empty.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention:

it may seem like they are making the game easy, but also I anticipate lots more enemy types being brought out. We know bandits are in the works, and I have no doubt more zombie types are too.

 

Plus, I’m working on a list of new Zombie types I’m going to suggest, which would make more of my suggestions actually quite useful, rather than just overkill.

[Riamus]

Keep in mind these "alternative routes through items" really aren't alternative.  Most people will take the most efficient options (as long as those are not too much effort).  So, if a rad remover effectively knocks down rads to a lower tier (they do still have more health, but the regen is what makes them special), almost all players are going to build those.  You'll of course still have some who want to do special rules for their games (like people who won't use traders or won't use bases), but most are just going to use the best options to quickly defeat their enemies.  So it might be something different than we have now, but people will just always use it and that makes it not really an alternate option and instead just a replacement option.  Alternatives would be things you can do that aren't really any better or worse, but are instead just different.  Things you might do for variety rather than efficiency or power.  That's just how I view it if you're talking about alternative ways to do things.  It seems you're really talking about just more efficient options and calling them alternatives.

 

They have commented on possibly adding a couple more zombie types, but it's clearly low on their list and may or may not happen.  It certainly won't be "lots" because adding enemies for the sake of adding them isn't valuable.  They need to be unique and balanced to make it worthwhile for more than just visuals.  And they have a limited time to finish what they want to finish before they complete the game.  That being said, they might do a zombie pack as a DLC afterwards.  Bandits will already be adding a variety of new enemies all at once, so the need for new zombies will be that much lower on their list.

 

If you're going to suggest zombie types, take a look at the variety of posts on the topic that have dozens of suggestions already.  They might give you ideas or be what you are already thinking about.

 

Side note: A high perch for a turret (or you) will reduce range because each block above ground counts as part of the range, so you have greater range at or near ground level in this game.

[Suxar]

10 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

I for one have played a few playthroughs since getting the new game (console) and am very quickly running out of things to do and ways to play. Adding alternative routes through items helps add ways to play the game.

 

Increase the horde size to 64 and reach level 300. If you can easily pass the red night with these settings, then there really is nothing else for you to do in the game.

[GuardianReaper0]

12 hours ago, Riamus said:

Keep in mind these "alternative routes through items" really aren't alternative.  Most people will take the most efficient options (as long as those are not too much effort).  So, if a rad remover effectively knocks down rads to a lower tier (they do still have more health, but the regen is what makes them special), almost all players are going to build those.  You'll of course still have some who want to do special rules for their games (like people who won't use traders or won't use bases), but most are just going to use the best options to quickly defeat their enemies.  So it might be something different than we have now, but people will just always use it and that makes it not really an alternate option and instead just a replacement option.  Alternatives would be things you can do that aren't really any better or worse, but are instead just different.  Things you might do for variety rather than efficiency or power.  That's just how I view it if you're talking about alternative ways to do things.  It seems you're really talking about just more efficient options and calling them alternatives.

 

They have commented on possibly adding a couple more zombie types, but it's clearly low on their list and may or may not happen.  It certainly won't be "lots" because adding enemies for the sake of adding them isn't valuable.  They need to be unique and balanced to make it worthwhile for more than just visuals.  And they have a limited time to finish what they want to finish before they complete the game.  That being said, they might do a zombie pack as a DLC afterwards.  Bandits will already be adding a variety of new enemies all at once, so the need for new zombies will be that much lower on their list.

 

If you're going to suggest zombie types, take a look at the variety of posts on the topic that have dozens of suggestions already.  They might give you ideas or be what you are already thinking about.

 

Side note: A high perch for a turret (or you) will reduce range because each block above ground counts as part of the range, so you have greater range at or near ground level in this game.

As far as armor and item suggestions go from what I’ve posted, it’s been alternatives outright.

As far as structures go, it has been a mix.

 

Staying focused on the topic at hand, the sniper turret would be an additive to base defense overall. If implemented as I suggested, it won’t be replacing any other structure already existing in terms of functionality (which is part of the point). As far as I’m concerned, it would work nicely as an alternative to the smg and shotgun turrets in the case that someone is using those ammunitions on their character, but not using 7.62. Which in one of my playthroughs has been the case. We had multiple people chewing through 9mm ammo, and nobody really using rifles or machine guns, so there was an over abundance of 7.62 ammo collecting dust. 
 

It would have been FANTASTIC to have a sniper auto turret in that play through. 
 

Also, the assumption that everyone just plays in the most efficient way possible, I would have to HEAVILY disagree on. Maybe that’s the case on pc, or maybe you are just seeing skewed numbers because the vast majority of people that post stuff on Reddit and other spots are all trying to build “meta horde bases”. 
 

From a lot of players I’ve talked to on console since 1.0 released, a lot of players are more interested in building up their home base and fighting the horde in a more natural setting. 
 

IF NOTHING ELSE, they should put in the option for “official game settings” that sets it up for players like yourself that only want to play in a min-max environment, so you can compete with each other. 
For the rest of us that actually want to enjoy our time either casually playing, roleplaying, whatever, they should add in more diverse options to do so.

3 hours ago, Suxar said:

Increase the horde size to 64 and reach level 300. If you can easily pass the red night with these settings, then there really is nothing else for you to do in the game.

All the endgame is always the same and boring as hell. (The reason why they are adding more things.) 

Adding more to the mid-game is important to keeping the game interesting. 
This is also the reason that a lot of players that set the xp multiplier high get bored really quickly and move on to other games. Rather than experiencing much of the early and mid game, they jump straight to end game and become bored.

[Riamus]

You seem to assume a lot.  I am not a min-max person.  At least, not in any meaningful way.  But even someone who says they aren't (including me) will still do things that are efficient unless they are either too much effort or too boring.  Even something basic - using the best weapon or tool that you have instead of the worst - is being more efficient.  The common meaning of min-max is more specific than just being efficient, though.  And wasn't what I was referring to.  The common meaning is to do something like swapping armor based on what you are doing to get the best bonus for the task (mining armor when mining, farming when farming, nerd when reading, etc).  And I don't do that, so please don't assume I do.  But I specifically said "efficient" and not min-max, because they are different, even if they are related.  Most players don't min-max in the way it's commonly meant, but most do things efficiently.  For example, do you just keep making burnt meat once you learn to make grilled meat (and have a grill)?  I doubt it.  Doing so means having to drink more water, which is less efficient.

 

Weapons you use personally are different.  You'll use whatever you like, even if it's less damage or less efficient.  But traps (including automatic turrets) that you use are going to be whatever you think works best.  If you can wipe out zombies long before they reach your base, you're going to always use a sniper turret unless it is terribly inefficient or ridiculously expensive.  You'll still continue to use the other turrets if a sniper turret has slow rate of fire because it won't keep up, even with a lot of them (up to a point), but you'll always use the sniper turret.  That won't be an alternative, but something that just gets used every game.

 

Anyhow, it really doesn't matter.  I was just saying that many of these aren't really alternatives if they are more efficient than existing options.  Take your workstations, for example.  If you have a choice of a less efficient one that only uses wood (or other burnable items) like we have now or a more efficient one that can use electricity like you suggest, players will always use the more efficient one unless they are doing a game without electricity.  So it isn't an alternative.  It's either a complete replacement (never using the less efficient option) if you get it at the same time, or it's an upgrade (replacing the old with the new) if you get it later.  The only reason it would really be different is choosing not to use electricity or only being able to make it after you're far enough into the game that efficiency doesn't matter and you just don't feel like bothering with it.

 

I won't bother you about it anymore, though.  It doesn't really matter if you want to call these things alternatives.  I think if many of these were added, practically everyone would use them every game, making them not alternatives.  But it doesn't matter what they are called.

 

As far as ammo usage, you can either choose to stick to 9mm if you want, or you can see that you have an imbalance of ammo and adjust accordingly.  I used to always have tons of .44 ammo.  I saw that it was just stacking up and no one used it, so I started using the desert vulture instead of the SMG or pistol.  Sure, it is lower ammo capacity, but it works really well.  And suddenly my 9mm ammo stopped being empty all the time.  But that's a choice you have.  Use a weapon you don't normally use or don't prefer so that you balance out your ammo usage, or choose to use the weapon you like and deal with ammo usage by crafting more and scrapping or selling the type(s) you don't need.  That being said, I've mentioned it a couple times already.... I'm fine with a 7.62 auto turret being added.  I just don't think it needs to have very long range.  Perhaps a little, but not a lot.  If overall damage and distance is roughly similar to SMG, it will not be a replacement, but will be an alternative because then it's just a matter of preference and ammo usage rather than being a better option.  Very long range, with one shot before each reload could do the same thing, but if you start playing too much with the rate of fire, people will end up just thinking it useless and never bother with it.  As it is, the shotgun turret is borderline too low rate of fire, imo.  I already don't use it much because it's so slow and has such a short range.  It's still great at a place where zombies will walk right past it, but so is an SMG.  If it was much slower, I think it would become useless to bother with unless you just want to use up shotgun ammo.  So going much slower than that with a "sniper" turret may just make them unused by a lot of people.  There's a balance you need.  Unbalance it and it either becomes a "required" option because it's so good or it becomes a "useless" option because it can't compare.  But if it's very similar in damage stats to other options, then it becomes an alternative or addition to your defense that you can choose based mostly just on what ammo you want to get rid of.  Of course, if it's similar, you have people who complain that it is too much like what you already have.  Hard to win with players.

 

In the end, you have to understand what I mentioned a long time ago... as console players, you are all just learning the game.  Even if you played the old version, the current version is so vastly different that it's essentially a new game with the same theme.  Things are just done very differently than they were 5 years ago.  New players in any game will think they need to do X, Y, or Z to have fun or be efficient or win or whatever simply because they haven't learned the game well yet.  Over time, you will start to see things in a similar way as those who have been playing the current versions of the game for hundreds or thousands of hours.  You will find that a lot of the things that you think are difficult or time consuming really aren't.  You will find better ways to do things.   You will learn what you like most about the game and will focus on that so that the game is fun and not boring.  It just takes time.  This is why console players seem to have a different view on the game than PC players.  Console players now have the exact same game, so it's not because the game is different.  And there are plenty of casual PC players and plenty of hardcore console players even if the ratio of the two aren't the same from PC to console, so that isn't the cause of differences in how PC players and console players see the game.  The difference is that console players are all new to the current version unless they were playing PC before.  And if they were playing PC before, they probably have a different view than the rest of the console players do right now.  Give it a few more months (longer for very casual players who don't play often) and once console players start getting up around 300-500 hours or so, you'll most likely start seeing a shift in what they feel is needed or unnecessary.

 

To touch on the end game stuff... yes, it doesn't have much end game stuff.  TFP is adding a story that is intended to add more to the end game.  However, I would not expect that story to really improve end game that much.  A story is something that takes place throughout a game and not just end game, so you'll be done with the story by the time you're at end game.  Bandits will also be there throughout the game, so again are not really doing much for end game.  The simple matter is that this game is not a game designed to get to the end and just keep playing over and over to max out stats or whatever like many other games.  It is instead a game designed to allow maximum replayability so that you will keep starting new games once you reach what you feel is the "end" of the game.  That is a very different design than most games out there and so you will see a difference in end game content.  The idea is not to just play forever in one game but to play many shorter games.  And you can tell by the gameplay stats on Steam that this game has enough replayability that people are putting in more hours in this game than just about any other game that isn't a service game (like an MMO) that keeps adding a lot of end game content all the time to keep expanding the game.  But it does require a different way of playing the game.  If you're focused entirely on end game, you're going to quickly get tired of the game.  If you're focused instead on just playing the game, you'll get more out of it.

 

For me, I find base building, horde nights, and zombie killing to be the best parts of the game.  I tend to prefer the late game because I then have plenty of resources to build whatever I want.  I have plenty of power to mow through tons of zombies.  I have vehicles that let me move around the map and kill stuff in a wider variety of POI quickly instead of wasting most my time running around.  None of that requires any additional end game content to be enjoyable.  That doesn't mean more content isn't nice, of course.  But if they go too far with stuff, they can actually ruin the game.  As it is, bandits seem like a 50/50 idea to me.  They might be good for the game, or they might ruin the game.  I play the game for the zombies.  There are better games if you want to just go after bandits or other living enemies.  But we'll see.  It could be good and I'm hoping it is good.  And if it isn't, I hope there's a way to disable them.

[GuardianReaper0]

As far as ammo usage, the current game I’m in I’m focusing on agility, and carry both a smg and a desert vulture, on top of my machete. I go through both .44 and 9mm, but far more of the 9mm.

If the sniper turrets were a thing, I could let them cover longer range to thin things out, while I cover short range with the 9mm.

If I were running MG or rifle, i probably wouldn’t bother with the sniper turret and just use the ammo myself, while having smg turrets help clean up short range. 
Hence, alternatives. 
 

As far as people not using shotgun turrets as much, I would disagree. I see shotgun turrets knock zombies down/back quite frequently, so mixing them with other traps (especially electric fence and blade traps) is pretty effective. Not to mention they can help give you breathing room if the enemies get too clustered. 
 

in fact one of the guys I run with made a setup where he wired hatches to open up fire a firing line of shotgun turrets anytime he needed to drop off loot. It worked quite well, but goes through a lot of rounds so it’s best to use them in bursts like that.

 

As far as the PC and Console part, I think you are forgetting a big reason that a lot of games like this, and I’m certain this one too, maintained as much player base on PC over the years: 

Mod Support

There is clearly a lot of things that players feel should be added to the game, and through mods, PC players were able to get those. That said, if you looked at how many players played 100% vanilla in that time, I have no doubt the number of players with thousands of hours in over the years is significantly lower.

 

My point is that there are a lot of things the base game could use to fill in some gaps, this being one of them. 
Not all my suggestions are to fill gameplay gaps, but rather are additions that I or my buddies would enjoy as a feature. 
 

I for one would really like to see them add either modifiers in the settings or more equipment to slow progress down (or stretch it out) in a better way so it doesn’t feel like you go from scraping by and trying to build up, straight into maxed out and tons of stuff. 
Where you can actually make use of a wider variety of things rather than just the “most efficient” thing.

It’s like the difference between a steel pickaxe and an auger. Once you get to that point there is basically no point in using the pickaxe, because the auger is just better. Whereas if they were to give the pickaxe higher chance for precious materials, there would be a bit more toss up between the two. 

The same kind of thing could be said for turrets. Each should have pros and cons that set them apart. Ultimately they serve very similar roles, but each one excels in a different area, making them alternatives for each other. 

[Riamus]

16 hours ago, GuardianReaper0 said:

It’s like the difference between a steel pickaxe and an auger. Once you get to that point there is basically no point in using the pickaxe, because the auger is just better. Whereas if they were to give the pickaxe higher chance for precious materials, there would be a bit more toss up between the two. 

Heh. Good luck getting some people to agree with you on that.  A lot of players don't use augers.  And now that augers didn't get the one shot ore chance that pickaxes get, there are more that won't use augers.  I personally prefer augers, but many consider pickaxes better.

[Suxar]

12 hours ago, Riamus said:

Heh. Good luck getting some people to agree with you on that.  A lot of players don't use augers.  And now that augers didn't get the one shot ore chance that pickaxes get, there are more that won't use augers.  I personally prefer augers, but many consider pickaxes better.

Yes, that's a pretty accurate statement. Since the drill started attracting screamers, its use has become somewhat complicated. And mining has changed a bit. If in A21 it took 2 hits on coal and saltpeter and 3 on lead and iron to break an ore block, then in 1.0 it takes 1 and 2 hits respectively. In A21 there was a chance to break a block with 1 hit, after reading books on mining, but now there is no such bonus. The drill is now somewhat less interesting than before.