6 hours ago, Riamus said:Ok, so I haven't checked this yet ... Is the limit per person or total? In other words, in an 8 player game with this set to 3, is it 3 total for the entire group of questing together or 24? I'm guessing 3. Does that really make much sense in multiplayer? I mean, sure... It slows you down. But isn't it a bit much?
Yes, 3. Does that make sense? Yes. Because a single player playing normally can't do more than 3 either. So whether you are a single player or a group of 4 or 8, your reputation progress will be at the same speed.
A group of 8 will get their free bike on day 4 just like the single player. A group of 8 players will start doing tier 4 POIs almost at the same day than a single player would. So this means the game is a lot more balanced between different number of players.
6 hours ago, Riamus said:f a large group can complete 3 quests, especially tier 1 quests in the early game, by 8am now that we start at 4am, does that make sense? A group of 8 players questing together should be able to do 3 tier 1 or 2 (maybe 3) quests in 4 hours on 1 hour days without much trouble if the quests are close together. Especially if they are fetch quests and the group didn't want to complete the POI. Edit: I did the math and that is too quick... So say by 10am. That's 15 minutes. Unless I'm really taking my time in a tier 1 quest, I can be done in 5 minutes. They are so small, it is hard to take much longer except with a few bigger tier 1 POI.
Again, you get ALL the benefits of doing quests, except the reputation.
If I play in a group and hit the limit, then my choice is still between
a) looting POIs and
b) looting POIs + some bonus XP + some bonus dukes + a bonus reward (which might be 6 magazines or 50 bullets of ammo).
The single player, if he reaches the limit on a day, might decide going back to the trader to get a new quest isn't worth it and loot POIs without a quest. A group of 4 players will get 4 new quests by going back once, I am very sure they will continue to do quests after hitting the limit, for that additional XP+dukes+reward times 4. I know I will, because I have already done so. Neither I nor any of my co-players has hesitated for a second when that icon turned up.
6 hours ago, Riamus said:Would the average 8 player group want to be limited to 3 quests in a day for progression?
This isn't about wanting it. It clearly is a nerf to balance things out. Nobody really likes to be nerfed. But players who understand that a game without challenge or balance is ultimately a bad game for them as well know that nerfs are necessary.
6 hours ago, Riamus said:I don't know that answer. I know I wouldn't and people I play with wouldn't. The first thing I heard from someone I played with who had been gone when the patch with this came out after getting back was a complaint about the limitation. Once I explained it was an option, they were fine with it, but the initial reaction was negative. Even if this has value for slowing progression down, if the average initial reaction is negative, can that be a good thing?
Has there ever been a positive reaction in the forum to nerfs or changes in general? At max it was a mixed reception.
6 hours ago, Riamus said:I'm not arguing about it fitting my settings. I'm arguing that it should match the number of quests you can take in a day (unlimited obviously can't, and 8 is too much, of course). As I said, it doesn't make sense that a trader gives you 5 quests but tells you he won't count 2 of those towards reputation with him.
theFlu said it best, the trader probably should not tell you this at all. It should be an internal number and you should simply be surprised with the news that the trader now thinks you are ready for better more rewarding tasks, because he is impressed with how you dealt with the previous quests.
Would you like it better if the limit were a hard limit and the trader would simply be out of jobs? It would be surely more realistic, but that would also restrict the choices of players much more. I thought about different ways how to do that and they all have serious limitations and drawbacks. This "soft" limit instead could really balance out what has been wrong about MP/SP for such a long time.
6 hours ago, Riamus said:Also, just because you can complete the first few tiers quickly doesn't mean you keep that same completion rate. It takes longer to do tier 4 and much longer to do tier 5 quests. On one hour days, you aren't likely to complete more than one (or two in a group) in a day. So the limitation is really focused on really game, which has already been allowed down a lot lately. If they want to make the game last longer, they should focus on late game instead of early game.
Yes, I mentioned that as well in my post. But if multiplayer progress is 2-4 times as fast as single player progress for the first 20 days for example (like it has been in A21) then the damage is already done in early game. It doesn't matter if MP play gets slower eventually, because by then their lead is already massive. And because a group is still faster even with tier4 that lead will continue to grow, even if somewhat slower.