On 1/23/2024 at 10:42 AM, pApA^LeGBa said:Subsistence, Green Hell, The Forest, Sons of the Forest, Conan Exiles, The long Dark, Empyrion, Project Zomboid, Raft, Stranded Deep, The Front, Sunkenland, Mediveal Dynasty.
I played a lot of Empyrion before switching to 7D2D. I don't remember thirst being part of it, though there was water as a source of oxygen. Am I misremembering? The same was true for Space Engineers, but in Ice form. (Trivia: I don't recall Space Engineers having hunger or thirst, but Medieval Engineers had hunger where recipes that made liquids were treated as food.)
I can confirm The Forest, Conan Exiles, The Long Dark, and Raft (yuch) had thirst. I've played Medieval Dynasty but don't really remember it.
On 1/23/2024 at 12:35 PM, meganoth said:The real question is: Has any of those games water in almost unlimited quantities easily available or always in immediate reach, but you still need to drink it or you would die?
Yes...
In Conan Exiles you must spend the early game in a river valley where there's lots of fresh water. But if you want to migrate to more hostile lands with next tier resources you will have to either continue to run back to the river valley or learn to build a well. You can go out and explore, but you'll need to use your inventory to carry water.
I don't recall food or water being a major complication in The Forest, but it also wasn't a huge map and I could always get back to my base and refresh without a lot of complications.
In Raft, I found hunger and thirst to be overdone and super frustrating. I played with a group of three other friends and I would dedicate myself to protecting the raft and harvesting food/water while the other three tried to solve the stupid puzzles. (I hated The Raft.)
In The Long Dark, you could really struggle and you had to plan. You could choose to hang out in a cabin by a frozen lake with seemingly infinite snow to melt and fish to catch and warmth. You'd be stable, but bored. TLD takes the frozen environment seriously. Sadly, I think it also made the character too fragile and it didn't get wildlife right. But if you want to have to worry about survival, that's important to that game.
For the space games, like Empyrion, you are definitely headed to wanting large-scale production of oxygen not just for your space suit, but to put an atmosphere in your ships and bases. In Space Engineers, oxygen can also be fuel. Survival in Empyrion is either super easy or more difficult depending on the starting planet. It kind of depends on if plants can grow where you start as to how much you're going to scramble to live beyond your starting supplies.
On 1/23/2024 at 12:35 PM, meganoth said:But again you seem to expect more than promised: Because water is a natural resource that is just used in its natural state and needs to be available from the start you can't easily make some **deep** mechanic with it.
I find survival in 7D2D to be satisfying in terms of play in terms of the quantities it delivers.
Where we disagree is the premise of that statement above. I think you CAN easily make deeper mechanics with it, mostly because people forget everything that goes into making tap/potable water. All the parts are present in the game. Consider:
The game goes Murky Water > Water > Teas and Pure Mineral Water. Water and above is all "good stuff."
The game assumes either a filter or boiling turns Murky Water into Water.
A more complex chain would be:
Murky Water (12% dysentery) > Purified Water (3% dysentery) > Potable Water where dysentery only goes away with the Chemistry Station version of making water.
An appealing part is the Iron Gut perk becomes more useful.
An appealing part to me is it recognizes a realistic continuum of water. It would be many game days to get to potable water, but your survival situation greatly improves with the step to get to Purify Water.
The downside is you probably need two tiers of Teas. Maybe Purified Water is 6% dysentery but Teas made with Purified Water are 3%. Then Teas/Smoothies from Potable Water could be the high-end super water.
One last thought. To me, those other games provide a reason to worry about water at your base location. in 7D2D, prior to the water change, I'd select base locations to be near a water source. Now with Dew Collectors, location is moot for water. You might as well be across the street from the trader.