Edit History

5 hours ago, Slingblade2040 said:

I don't know how much clearer it is when there is a hub for questing, buying and selling. Even the devs have talked about the traders being and probably becoming more essential. 

 

Painfully obvious how the intended playstyle is especially with the starting quest taking you to the traders and having to talk to them and receiving quests and them being the only place where to you can buy and sell all goods. 

 

If traders are an essential portion of future content then their goods along with quest rewards need major work done otherwise its pointless gathering magazines to skill up to craft certain tools or weapons.

 

Saying that crafting seems broken to me when pick a certain perks to be able to craft certain tools and weapons and end up getting rewards that negate the crafting progression for those perks isn't a personal oh it's seems broken to me thing that is a total it's broken across the board thing. 

 

That's like you picking strength to go shotguns and tools you collect magazines to craft up to steel or craft up that double barrel into a pump shotgun then the quest reward is a auto shotgun which then entirely negates the point of crafting.

 

No saying don't do quests or use traders isn't a valid option. You are essentially telling me or new players hey skip out this huge portion of game content because it breaks the crafting progression for tools, armor and weapons. Which is ridiculous for a game that's been this long in development.

Again, I think you're making a lot of assumptions here:

The first is that you think you have a clear understanding of what intended gameplay is.   You have gleaned this through your experience, which is essentially how you define whats intended for yourself but it lacks outside perspective.  You've boiled down what you think is intended gameplay, but in my experience is that traders are a tool, and might be esseential for certain things (getting dukes and some resources quickly) but traders ignore the fact that if you need specific things then you go after specific POIs, none of which need a trader pointing a finger at it to make it viable.

If you need food and water?  Hit up a restaurant, a hotel, a house even?!  Its in the cupboards, sinks, ovens, and drink machines.

If you need weapons and ammo?  Hit up a shotgun messiah or any POI that might have housed a survivor population.

If you need seeds and veggies?  There are farm and granary POIs.  Why not hit those?

Gas?  Easy peasy, there are gas stations all over the map!   Car parts are everywhere!

Need big guns?  We have military bases!    GO GO GO!

You're literally swimming in resources that are just waiting for you to show up and loot them.  I don't understand this deep reliance upon one single aspect of the game whereas you have up to 10k maps where there are towns that do not even have the benefit of having a trader within its borders.

See, people are confusing what is easy over what is worthwhile.  The trader is certainly a thing, but if you let that one thing define your every move then the problem isn't the trader itself, its whomever decided that they need a trader to hold their hand and point out an uncertain path when there are others available is exactly what I'm saying.  You don't have to do the quests.   You're missing the forest for the trees.

And the devs saying that the Traders becoming more essential was left without much context.  For all we know the best guess is that this is about lore and progression versus the Duke himself.  Nothing fills a void like speculation, and this is exactly what I am reading not just from your post, but many many others.  The truth is inside the heads of the developers and sadly.. not many here are in the actual facts of the development philosophy of the game, and those that DO know can only share what's been cleared for sharing.

So yeah, that IS my answer to you.   You might go and pretend you're stuck in the Matrix shackled to Trader Jen and her snake oil hype, and then bemoan how restricted you are, but I'm not.  I'm going to echo these wise words right here:

8 hours ago, Krougal said:

I feel OPs pain but best advice I can give is "get over it", no seriously, I went through a period of hating the game myself. I started playing back in single digit build numbers when it was more like a hardcore sandbox. No skills, no levels. No @%$#ing tiers. Just how I liked it. Jump in, start exploring, use whatever you find and adapt and survive and thrive. Now it is practically an arcade game. I mean face it, releasing console versions is a bold admission of "this is a game for filthy casuals". So yeah, I had a lot of anger and resentment and hatred to the game for several alphas. Sometimes you just need to let go and learn to enjoy the game that is (and mod the rest).

 

So A21 still isn't the game I ever hoped or wanted 7DTD to be but it is a lot of fun if you can accept it as the gamey game it is.

And if you're still stuck running on empty for anything you need, the best advice I ever gave anyone is PLAY WITH YOUR SETTINGS. You'd be surprised how noticeable certain things are if you just make an attempt at it.  It's not cheating to trim the settings.  I find it absolutely vital in the decision to live lean and constantly starving to 'Okay, I can eventually overcome this now.'   You'll get so much farther if you're more critical about your approach and attitude, and less just complaining about how everything else is just so broken and ruined to the point of victimhood.

So how can you just sell the rest of us how it really is, when there's years of evidence not just in how the game has come along, but in the hundreds of people that are also sharing their experiences and methodologies over those time periods?  How do you reconcile these two things?

37 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

I don't know how much clearer it is when there is a hub for questing, buying and selling. Even the devs have talked about the traders being and probably becoming more essential. 

 

Painfully obvious how the intended playstyle is especially with the starting quest taking you to the traders and having to talk to them and receiving quests and them being the only place where to you can buy and sell all goods. 

 

If traders are an essential portion of future content then their goods along with quest rewards need major work done otherwise its pointless gathering magazines to skill up to craft certain tools or weapons.

 

Saying that crafting seems broken to me when pick a certain perks to be able to craft certain tools and weapons and end up getting rewards that negate the crafting progression for those perks isn't a personal oh it's seems broken to me thing that is a total it's broken across the board thing. 

 

That's like you picking strength to go shotguns and tools you collect magazines to craft up to steel or craft up that double barrel into a pump shotgun then the quest reward is a auto shotgun which then entirely negates the point of crafting.

 

No saying don't do quests or use traders isn't a valid option. You are essentially telling me or new players hey skip out this huge portion of game content because it breaks the crafting progression for tools, armor and weapons. Which is ridiculous for a game that's been this long in development.

Again, I think you're making a lot of assumptions here:

The first is that you think you have a clear understanding of what intended gameplay is.   You have gleaned this through your experience, which is essentially how you define whats intended but it lacks outside perspective.  You've boiled down what you think is intended gameplay, but in my experience is that traders are a tool, and might be esseential for certain things (getting dukes and some resources quickly) but traders ignore the fact that if you need specific things then you go after specific POIs, none of which need a trader pointing a finger at it to make it viable.

If you need food and water?  Hit up a restaurant, a hotel, a house even?!  Its in the cupboards, sinks, ovens, and drink machines.

If you need weapons and ammo?  Hit up a shotgun messiah or any POI that might have housed a survivor population.

If you need seeds and veggies?  There are farm and granary POIs.  Why not hit those?

Gas?  Easy peasy, there are gas stations all over the map!   Car parts are everywhere!

Need big guns?  We have military bases!    GO GO GO!

You're literally swimming in resources that are just waiting for you to show up and loot them.  I don't understand this deep reliance upon one single aspect of the game whereas you have up to 10k maps where there are towns that do not even have the benefit of having a trader within its borders.

See, people are confusing what is easy over what is worthwhile.  The trader is certainly a thing, but if you let that one thing define your every move then the problem isn't the trader itself, its whomever decided that they need a trader to hold their hand and point out an uncertain path when there are others available is exactly what I'm saying.  You don't have to do the quests.   You're missing the forest for the trees.

And the devs saying that the Traders becoming more essential was left without much context.  For all we know the best guess is that this is about lore and progression versus the Duke himself.  Nothing fills a void like speculation, and this is exactly what I am reading not just from your post, but many many others.  The truth is inside the heads of the developers and sadly.. not many here are in the actual facts of the development philosophy of the game, and those that DO know can only share what's been cleared for sharing.

So yeah, that IS my answer to you.   You might go and pretend you're stuck in the Matrix shackled to Trader Jen and her snake oil hype, and then bemoan how restricted you are, but I'm not.  I'm going to echo these wise words right here:

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

I feel OPs pain but best advice I can give is "get over it", no seriously, I went through a period of hating the game myself. I started playing back in single digit build numbers when it was more like a hardcore sandbox. No skills, no levels. No @%$#ing tiers. Just how I liked it. Jump in, start exploring, use whatever you find and adapt and survive and thrive. Now it is practically an arcade game. I mean face it, releasing console versions is a bold admission of "this is a game for filthy casuals". So yeah, I had a lot of anger and resentment and hatred to the game for several alphas. Sometimes you just need to let go and learn to enjoy the game that is (and mod the rest).

 

So A21 still isn't the game I ever hoped or wanted 7DTD to be but it is a lot of fun if you can accept it as the gamey game it is.

And if you're still stuck running on empty for anything you need, the best advice I ever gave anyone is PLAY WITH YOUR SETTINGS. You'd be surprised how noticeable certain things are if you just make an attempt at it.  It's not cheating to trim the settings.  I find it absolutely vital in the decision to live lean and constantly starving to 'Okay, I can eventually overcome this now.'   You'll get so much farther if you're more critical about your approach and attitude, and less just complaining about how everything else is just so broken and ruined to the point of victimhood.

So how can you just sell the rest of us how it really is, when there's years of evidence not just in how the game has come along, but in the hundreds of people that are also sharing their experiences and methodologies over those time periods?  How do you reconcile these two things?

36 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

I don't know how much clearer it is when there is a hub for questing, buying and selling. Even the devs have talked about the traders being and probably becoming more essential. 

 

Painfully obvious how the intended playstyle is especially with the starting quest taking you to the traders and having to talk to them and receiving quests and them being the only place where to you can buy and sell all goods. 

 

If traders are an essential portion of future content then their goods along with quest rewards need major work done otherwise its pointless gathering magazines to skill up to craft certain tools or weapons.

 

Saying that crafting seems broken to me when pick a certain perks to be able to craft certain tools and weapons and end up getting rewards that negate the crafting progression for those perks isn't a personal oh it's seems broken to me thing that is a total it's broken across the board thing. 

 

That's like you picking strength to go shotguns and tools you collect magazines to craft up to steel or craft up that double barrel into a pump shotgun then the quest reward is a auto shotgun which then entirely negates the point of crafting.

 

No saying don't do quests or use traders isn't a valid option. You are essentially telling me or new players hey skip out this huge portion of game content because it breaks the crafting progression for tools, armor and weapons. Which is ridiculous for a game that's been this long in development.

Again, I think you're making a lot of assumptions here:

The first is that you think you have a clear understanding of what intended gameplay is.   You have gleaned this through your experience, which is essentially how you define whats intended but it lacks outside perspective.  You've boiled down what you think is intended gameplay, but in my experience is that traders are a tool, and might be esseential for certain things (getting dukes and some resources quickly) but traders ignore the fact that if you need specific things then you go after specific POIs, none of which need a trader pointing a finger at it to make it viable.

If you need food and water?  Hit up a restaurant, a hotel, a house even?!  Its in the cupboards, sinks, ovens, and drink machines.

If you need weapons and ammo?  Hit up a shotgun messiah or any POI that might have housed a survivor population.

If you need seeds and veggies?  There are farm and granary POIs.  Why not hit those?

Gas?  Easy peasy, there are gas stations all over the map!   Car parts are everywhere!

Need big guns?  We have military bases!    GO GO GO!

You're literally swimming in resources that are just waiting for you to show up and loot them.  I don't understand this deep reliance upon one single aspect of the game whereas you have up to 10k maps where there are towns that do not even have the benefit of having a trader within its borders.

See, people are confusing what is easy over what is worthwhile.  The trader is certainly a thing, but if you let that one thing define your every move then the problem isn't the trader itself, its whomever decided that they need a trader to hold their hand and point out an uncertain path when there are others available is exactly what I'm saying.  You don't have to do the quests.   You're missing the forest for the trees.

And the devs saying that the Traders becoming more essential was left without much context.  For all we know the best guess is that this is about lore and progression versus the Duke himself.  Nothing fills a void like speculation, and this is exactly what I am reading not just from your post, but many many others.  The truth is inside the heads of the developers and sadly.. not many here are in the actual facts of the development philosophy of the game, and those that DO know can only share what's been cleared for sharing.

So yeah, that IS my answer to you.   You might go and pretend you're stuck in the Matrix shackled to Trader Jen and her snake oil hype, and then bemoan how restricted you are, but I'm not.  I'm going to echo these wise words right here:

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

I feel OPs pain but best advice I can give is "get over it", no seriously, I went through a period of hating the game myself. I started playing back in single digit build numbers when it was more like a hardcore sandbox. No skills, no levels. No @%$#ing tiers. Just how I liked it. Jump in, start exploring, use whatever you find and adapt and survive and thrive. Now it is practically an arcade game. I mean face it, releasing console versions is a bold admission of "this is a game for filthy casuals". So yeah, I had a lot of anger and resentment and hatred to the game for several alphas. Sometimes you just need to let go and learn to enjoy the game that is (and mod the rest).

 

So A21 still isn't the game I ever hoped or wanted 7DTD to be but it is a lot of fun if you can accept it as the gamey game it is.

And if you're still stuck running on empty for anything you need, the best advice I ever gave anyone is PLAY WITH YOUR SETTINGS. You'd be surprised how noticeable certain things are if you just make an attempt at it.  It's not cheating to trim the settings.  I find it absolutely vital in the decision to live lean and constantly starving to 'Okay, I can eventually overcome this now.'

So how can you just sell the rest of us how it really is, when there's years of evidence not just in how the game has come along, but in the hundreds of people that are also sharing their experiences and methodologies over those time periods?  How do you reconcile these two things?

35 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

I don't know how much clearer it is when there is a hub for questing, buying and selling. Even the devs have talked about the traders being and probably becoming more essential. 

 

Painfully obvious how the intended playstyle is especially with the starting quest taking you to the traders and having to talk to them and receiving quests and them being the only place where to you can buy and sell all goods. 

 

If traders are an essential portion of future content then their goods along with quest rewards need major work done otherwise its pointless gathering magazines to skill up to craft certain tools or weapons.

 

Saying that crafting seems broken to me when pick a certain perks to be able to craft certain tools and weapons and end up getting rewards that negate the crafting progression for those perks isn't a personal oh it's seems broken to me thing that is a total it's broken across the board thing. 

 

That's like you picking strength to go shotguns and tools you collect magazines to craft up to steel or craft up that double barrel into a pump shotgun then the quest reward is a auto shotgun which then entirely negates the point of crafting.

 

No saying don't do quests or use traders isn't a valid option. You are essentially telling me or new players hey skip out this huge portion of game content because it breaks the crafting progression for tools, armor and weapons. Which is ridiculous for a game that's been this long in development.

Again, I think you're making a lot of assumptions here:

The first is that you think you have a clear understanding of what intended gameplay is.   You have gleaned this through your experience, which is essentially how you define whats intended but it lacks outside perspective.  You've boiled down what you think is intended gameplay, but in my experience is that traders are a tool, and might be esseential for certain things (getting dukes and some resources quickly) but traders ignore the fact that if you need specific things then you go after specific POIs, none of which need a trader pointing a finger at it to make it viable.

If you need food and water?  Hit up a restaurant, a hotel, a house even?!  Its in the cupboards, sinks, ovens, and drink machines.

If you need weapons and ammo?  Hit up a shotgun messiah or any POI that might have housed a survivor population.

If you need seeds and veggies?  There are farm and granary POIs.  Why not hit those?

Gas?  Easy peasy, there are gas stations all over the map!   Car parts are everywhere!

Need big guns?  We have military bases!    GO GO GO!

You're literally swimming in resources that are just waiting for you to show up and loot them.  I don't understand this deep reliance upon one single aspect of the game whereas you have up to 10k maps where there are towns that do not even have the benefit of having a trader within its borders.

See, people are confusing what is easy over what is worthwhile.  The trader is certainly a thing, but if you let that one thing define your every move then the problem isn't the trader itself, its whomever decided that they need a trader to hold their hand and point out an uncertain path when there are others available is exactly what I'm saying.  You don't have to do the quests.   You're missing the forest for the trees.

And the devs saying that the Traders becoming more essential was left without much context.  For all we know the best guess is that this is about lore and progression versus the Duke himself.  Nothing fills a void like speculation, and this is exactly what I am reading not just from your post, but many many others.  The truth is inside the heads of the developers and sadly.. not many here are in the actual facts of the development philosophy of the game, and those that DO know can only share what's been cleared for sharing.

So yeah, that IS my answer to you.   You might go and pretend you're stuck in the Matrix shackled to Trader Jen and her snake oil hype, and then bemoan how restricted you are, but I'm not.  I'm going to echo these wise words right here:

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

I feel OPs pain but best advice I can give is "get over it", no seriously, I went through a period of hating the game myself. I started playing back in single digit build numbers when it was more like a hardcore sandbox. No skills, no levels. No @%$#ing tiers. Just how I liked it. Jump in, start exploring, use whatever you find and adapt and survive and thrive. Now it is practically an arcade game. I mean face it, releasing console versions is a bold admission of "this is a game for filthy casuals". So yeah, I had a lot of anger and resentment and hatred to the game for several alphas. Sometimes you just need to let go and learn to enjoy the game that is (and mod the rest).

 

So A21 still isn't the game I ever hoped or wanted 7DTD to be but it is a lot of fun if you can accept it as the gamey game it is.

And if you're still stuck running on empty for anything you need, the best advice I ever gave anyone is PLAY WITH YOUR SETTINGS. You'd be surprised how noticeable certain things are if you just make an attempt at it.  It's not cheating to trim the settings.  I find it absolutely vital in the decision to live lean and constantly starving to 'Okay, I can eventually overcome this now.'

So how can you just sell the rest of us how it really is, when there's years of evidence not just in how the game has come along, but in the hundreds of people that are also sharing their experiences and methodologies over those time periods?  How do you reconcile these two things?

32 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

I don't know how much clearer it is when there is a hub for questing, buying and selling. Even the devs have talked about the traders being and probably becoming more essential. 

 

Painfully obvious how the intended playstyle is especially with the starting quest taking you to the traders and having to talk to them and receiving quests and them being the only place where to you can buy and sell all goods. 

 

If traders are an essential portion of future content then their goods along with quest rewards need major work done otherwise its pointless gathering magazines to skill up to craft certain tools or weapons.

 

Saying that crafting seems broken to me when pick a certain perks to be able to craft certain tools and weapons and end up getting rewards that negate the crafting progression for those perks isn't a personal oh it's seems broken to me thing that is a total it's broken across the board thing. 

 

That's like you picking strength to go shotguns and tools you collect magazines to craft up to steel or craft up that double barrel into a pump shotgun then the quest reward is a auto shotgun which then entirely negates the point of crafting.

 

No saying don't do quests or use traders isn't a valid option. You are essentially telling me or new players hey skip out this huge portion of game content because it breaks the crafting progression for tools, armor and weapons. Which is ridiculous for a game that's been this long in development.

Again, I think you're making a lot of assumptions here:

The first is that you think you have a clear understanding of what intended gameplay is.   You have gleaned this through your experience, which is essentially how you define whats intended but it lacks outside perspective.  You've boiled down what you think is intended gameplay, but in my experience is that traders are a tool, and might be esseential for certain things (getting dukes and some resources quickly) but traders ignore the fact that if you need specific things then you go after specific POIs, none of which need a trader pointing a finger at it to make it viable.

If you need food and water?  Hit up a restaurant, a hotel, a house even?!  Its in the cupboards, sinks, ovens, and drink machines.

If you need weapons and ammo?  Hit up a shotgun messiah or any POI that might have housed a survivor population.

If you need seeds and veggies?  There are farm and granary POIs.  Why not hit those?

Gas?  Easy peasy, there are gas stations all over the map!   Car parts are everywhere!

Need big guns?  We have military bases!    GO GO GO!

You're literally swimming in resources that are just waiting for you to show up and loot them.  I don't understand this deep reliance upon one single aspect of the game whereas you have up to 10k maps where there are towns that do not even have the benefit of having a trader within its borders.

See, people are confusing what is easy over what is worthwhile.  The trader is certainly a thing, but if you let that one thing define your every move then the problem isn't the trader itself, its whomever decided that they need a trader to hold their hand and point out an uncertain path when there are others available is exactly what I'm saying.  You don't have to do the quests.   You're missing the forest for the trees.

And the devs saying that the Traders becoming more essential was left without much context.  For all we know the best guess is that this is about lore and progression versus the Duke himself.  Nothing fills a void like speculation, and this is exactly what I am reading not just from your post, but many many others.  The truth is inside the heads of the developers and sadly.. not many here are in the actual facts of the development philosophy of the game, and those that DO know can only share what's been cleared for sharing.

So yeah, that IS my answer to you.   You might go and pretend you're stuck in the Matrix shackled to Trader Jen and her snake oil hype, and then bemoan how restricted you are, but I'm not.  I'm going to echo these wise words right here:

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

I feel OPs pain but best advice I can give is "get over it", no seriously, I went through a period of hating the game myself. I started playing back in single digit build numbers when it was more like a hardcore sandbox. No skills, no levels. No @%$#ing tiers. Just how I liked it. Jump in, start exploring, use whatever you find and adapt and survive and thrive. Now it is practically an arcade game. I mean face it, releasing console versions is a bold admission of "this is a game for filthy casuals". So yeah, I had a lot of anger and resentment and hatred to the game for several alphas. Sometimes you just need to let go and learn to enjoy the game that is (and mod the rest).

 

So A21 still isn't the game I ever hoped or wanted 7DTD to be but it is a lot of fun if you can accept it as the gamey game it is.

And if you're still stuck running on empty for anything you need, the best advice I ever gave anyone is PLAY WITH YOUR SETTINGS. You'd be surprised how noticeable certain things are if you just make an attempt at it.  It's not cheating to trim the settings.  I find it absolutely vital in the decision to live lean and constantly starving to 'Okay, I can eventually overcome this now.'

So how can you just sell the rest of us how it really is, when there's years of evidence to show the opposite.  How do you reconcile these two things?

26 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

I don't know how much clearer it is when there is a hub for questing, buying and selling. Even the devs have talked about the traders being and probably becoming more essential. 

 

Painfully obvious how the intended playstyle is especially with the starting quest taking you to the traders and having to talk to them and receiving quests and them being the only place where to you can buy and sell all goods. 

 

If traders are an essential portion of future content then their goods along with quest rewards need major work done otherwise its pointless gathering magazines to skill up to craft certain tools or weapons.

 

Saying that crafting seems broken to me when pick a certain perks to be able to craft certain tools and weapons and end up getting rewards that negate the crafting progression for those perks isn't a personal oh it's seems broken to me thing that is a total it's broken across the board thing. 

 

That's like you picking strength to go shotguns and tools you collect magazines to craft up to steel or craft up that double barrel into a pump shotgun then the quest reward is a auto shotgun which then entirely negates the point of crafting.

 

No saying don't do quests or use traders isn't a valid option. You are essentially telling me or new players hey skip out this huge portion of game content because it breaks the crafting progression for tools, armor and weapons. Which is ridiculous for a game that's been this long in development.

Again, I think you're making a lot of assumptions here:

The first is that you think you have a clear understanding of what intended gameplay is.   You have gleaned this through your experience, which is essentially how you define whats intended but it lacks outside perspective.  You've boiled down what you think is intended gameplay, but in my experience is that traders are a tool, and might be esseential for certain things (getting dukes and some resources quickly) but traders ignore the fact that if you need specific things then you go after specific POIs, none of which need a trader pointing a finger at it to make it viable.

If you need food and water?  Hit up a restaurant, a hotel, a house even?!  Its in the cupboards, sinks, ovens, and drink machines.

If you need weapons and ammo?  Hit up a shotgun messiah or any POI that might have housed a survivor population.

If you need seeds and veggies?  There are farm and granary POIs.  Why not hit those?

Gas?  Easy peasy, there are gas stations all over the map!   Car parts are everywhere!

Need big guns?  We have military bases!    GO GO GO!

You're literally swimming in resources that are just waiting for you to show up and loot them.  I don't understand this deep reliance upon one single aspect of the game whereas you have up to 10k maps where there are towns that do not even have the benefit of having a trader within its borders.

See, people are confusing what is easy over what is worthwhile.  The trader is certainly a thing, but if you let that one thing define your every move then the problem isn't the trader itself, its whomever decided that they need a trader to hold their hand and point out an uncertain path when there are others available is exactly what I'm saying.  You don't have to do the quests.   You're missing the forest for the trees.

And the devs saying that the Traders becoming more essential was left without much context.  For all we know the best guess is that this is about lore and progression versus the Duke himself.  Nothing fills a void like speculation, and this is exactly what I am reading not just from your post, but many many others.  The truth is inside the heads of the developers and sadly.. not many here are in the actual facts of the development philosophy of the game, and those that DO know can only share what's been cleared for sharing.

So yeah, that IS my answer to you.   You might go and pretend you're stuck in the Matrix shackled to Trader Jen and her snake oil hype, and then bemoan how restricted you are, but I'm not.  I'm going to echo these wise words right here:

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

I feel OPs pain but best advice I can give is "get over it", no seriously, I went through a period of hating the game myself. I started playing back in single digit build numbers when it was more like a hardcore sandbox. No skills, no levels. No @%$#ing tiers. Just how I liked it. Jump in, start exploring, use whatever you find and adapt and survive and thrive. Now it is practically an arcade game. I mean face it, releasing console versions is a bold admission of "this is a game for filthy casuals". So yeah, I had a lot of anger and resentment and hatred to the game for several alphas. Sometimes you just need to let go and learn to enjoy the game that is (and mod the rest).

 

So A21 still isn't the game I ever hoped or wanted 7DTD to be but it is a lot of fun if you can accept it as the gamey game it is.

So how can you just sell the rest of us how it really is, when there's years of evidence to show the opposite.  How do you reconcile these two things?

25 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

I don't know how much clearer it is when there is a hub for questing, buying and selling. Even the devs have talked about the traders being and probably becoming more essential. 

 

Painfully obvious how the intended playstyle is especially with the starting quest taking you to the traders and having to talk to them and receiving quests and them being the only place where to you can buy and sell all goods. 

 

If traders are an essential portion of future content then their goods along with quest rewards need major work done otherwise its pointless gathering magazines to skill up to craft certain tools or weapons.

 

Saying that crafting seems broken to me when pick a certain perks to be able to craft certain tools and weapons and end up getting rewards that negate the crafting progression for those perks isn't a personal oh it's seems broken to me thing that is a total it's broken across the board thing. 

 

That's like you picking strength to go shotguns and tools you collect magazines to craft up to steel or craft up that double barrel into a pump shotgun then the quest reward is a auto shotgun which then entirely negates the point of crafting.

 

No saying don't do quests or use traders isn't a valid option. You are essentially telling me or new players hey skip out this huge portion of game content because it breaks the crafting progression for tools, armor and weapons. Which is ridiculous for a game that's been this long in development.

Again, I think you're making a lot of assumptions here:

The first is that you think you have a clear understanding of what intended gameplay is.   You have gleaned this through your experience, which is essentially how you define whats intended but it lacks outside perspective.  You've boiled down what you think is intended gameplay, but in my experience is that traders are a tool, and might be esseential for certain things (getting dukes and some resources quickly) but traders ignore the fact that if you need specific things then you go after specific POIs, none of which need a trader pointing a finger at it to make it viable.

If you need food and water?  Hit up a restaurant, a hotel, a house even?!  Its in the cupboards, sinks, ovens, and drink machines.

If you need weapons and ammo?  Hit up a shotgun messiah or any POI that might have houses a survivor population.

If you need seeds and veggies?  There are farm and granary POIs.  Why not hit those?

Gas?  Easy peasy, there are gas stations all over the map!   Even car parts are EVERYWHERE!?

You're literally swimming in resources that are just waiting for you to show up and loot them.  I don't understand this deep reliance upon one single aspect of the game whereas you have up to 10k maps where there are towns that do not even have the benefit of having a trader within its borders.

See, people are confusing what is easy over what is worthwhile.  Sure, the trader is easy, but if you let that one thing define your every move then the problem isn't the trader itself, its whomever decided that they need a trader to hold their hand and point out an uncertain path when there are others available is exactly what I'm saying.  You don't have to do the quests.   You're just stuck on what you think is easy.

And the devs saying that the Traders becoming more essential was left without much context.  For all we know the best guess is that this is about lore and progression versus the Duke himself.  But, nothing fills a void like speculation, and this is exactly what I am reading not just from your post, but many many others.  The truth is inside the heads of the developers and sadly.. not many here are in the facts of the development philosophy of the game.

So yeah, that IS my answer to you.   You might go and pretend you're stuck in the Matrix shackled to Trader Jen and her snake oil hype, and then bemoan how restricted you are - but you're missing an entire map outside of that.  So, I'm going to echo these wise words right here:

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

I feel OPs pain but best advice I can give is "get over it", no seriously, I went through a period of hating the game myself. I started playing back in single digit build numbers when it was more like a hardcore sandbox. No skills, no levels. No @%$#ing tiers. Just how I liked it. Jump in, start exploring, use whatever you find and adapt and survive and thrive. Now it is practically an arcade game. I mean face it, releasing console versions is a bold admission of "this is a game for filthy casuals". So yeah, I had a lot of anger and resentment and hatred to the game for several alphas. Sometimes you just need to let go and learn to enjoy the game that is (and mod the rest).

 

So A21 still isn't the game I ever hoped or wanted 7DTD to be but it is a lot of fun if you can accept it as the gamey game it is.

So how can you just sell the rest of us how it really is, when there's years of evidence to show the opposite.  How do you reconcile these two things?

23 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:

I don't know how much clearer it is when there is a hub for questing, buying and selling. Even the devs have talked about the traders being and probably becoming more essential. 

 

Painfully obvious how the intended playstyle is especially with the starting quest taking you to the traders and having to talk to them and receiving quests and them being the only place where to you can buy and sell all goods. 

 

If traders are an essential portion of future content then their goods along with quest rewards need major work done otherwise its pointless gathering magazines to skill up to craft certain tools or weapons.

 

Saying that crafting seems broken to me when pick a certain perks to be able to craft certain tools and weapons and end up getting rewards that negate the crafting progression for those perks isn't a personal oh it's seems broken to me thing that is a total it's broken across the board thing. 

 

That's like you picking strength to go shotguns and tools you collect magazines to craft up to steel or craft up that double barrel into a pump shotgun then the quest reward is a auto shotgun which then entirely negates the point of crafting.

 

No saying don't do quests or use traders isn't a valid option. You are essentially telling me or new players hey skip out this huge portion of game content because it breaks the crafting progression for tools, armor and weapons. Which is ridiculous for a game that's been this long in development.

Again, I think you're making a lot of assumptions here:

The first is that you think you have a clear understanding of what intended gameplay is.   You have gleaned this through your experience, which is essentially how you define whats intended but it lacks outside perspective.  You've boiled down what you think is intended gameplay, but in my experience is that traders are a tool, and might be esseential for certain things (getting dukes and some resources quickly) but traders ignore the fact that if you need specific things then you go after specific POIs, none of which need a trader pointing a finger at it to make it viable.

If you need food and water?  Hit up a restaurant, a hotel, a house even?!  Its in the cupboards, sinks, ovens, and drink machines.

If you need weapons and ammo?  Hit up a shotgun messiah or any POI that might have houses a survivor population.

If you need seeds and veggies?  There are farm and granary POIs.  Why not hit those?

Gas?  Easy peasy, there are gas stations all over the map!   Even car parts are EVERYWHERE!?

You're literally swimming in resources that are just waiting for you to show up and loot them.  I don't understand this deep reliance upon one single aspect of the game whereas you have up to 10k maps where there are towns that do not even have the benefit of having a trader within its borders.

See, people are confusing what is easy over what is worthwhile.  Sure, the trader is easy, but if you let that one thing define your every move then the problem isn't the trader itself, its whomever decided that they need a trader to hold their hand and point out an uncertain path when there are others available is exactly what I'm saying.  You don't have to do the quests.   You're just stuck on what you think is easy.

And the devs saying that the Traders becoming more essential was left without much context.  For all we know the best guess is that this is about lore and progression versus the Duke himself.  But, nothing fills a void like speculation, and this is exactly what I am reading not just from your post, but many many others.  The truth is inside the heads of the developers and sadly.. not many here are in the facts of the development philosophy of the game.

So yeah, that IS my answer to you.   You might go and pretend you're stuck in the Matrix shackled to Trader Jen and her snake oil hype, and then bemoan how restricted you are - but you're missing an entire map outside of that.  So, I'm going to echo these wise words right here:

3 hours ago, Krougal said:

I feel OPs pain but best advice I can give is "get over it", no seriously, I went through a period of hating the game myself. I started playing back in single digit build numbers when it was more like a hardcore sandbox. No skills, no levels. No @%$#ing tiers. Just how I liked it. Jump in, start exploring, use whatever you find and adapt and survive and thrive. Now it is practically an arcade game. I mean face it, releasing console versions is a bold admission of "this is a game for filthy casuals". So yeah, I had a lot of anger and resentment and hatred to the game for several alphas. Sometimes you just need to let go and learn to enjoy the game that is (and mod the rest).

 

So A21 still isn't the game I ever hoped or wanted 7DTD to be but it is a lot of fun if you can accept it as the gamey game it is.

So how can you just sell the rest of us how it really is, when there's so much evidence to show the opposite.  How do you reconcile these two things?