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My Vision: Besiegers of A17+

Mc Draken

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Good day! While i already suggested zombie changes before and after A17, i wish to react on the most recent changes, to offer relevant insight and suggestions following the path of the developers decisions.


While the new A17 pathfinding got some negative feedback in my group and some on the forums, i think the base defense part of the game is better than ever.


Yeah, A16 base design wont work. They find a weakspot, they pierce and will cleave trough it. But tunneling them into traps modifies the gameplay into a lot better state. Its action filled and grants a lot of exp as reward if the siege fought in person.


I never played with chese tactics, nor zombie grinders or anything. Just to keep my own excitement, i always played "fair" and fought the bastards off. No ramp tactics, zed grinders, or other pathfinding loops. If they got trough, they could get me. (Us) And sometimes they did.


To be honest A17 was the very first moment, where i actually enjoyed hordenights. I built a base, left a tunnel in the wall that leads to the basement, filled the tunnel and basement with traps and shot them dead. Well, more dead. Finally we could do clever constructs, thats actually not a cheese, but simply required to play. People said basebuilding is over in A17, but actually it started in A17. Finally basebuilding is not about piling spikes and turrets. It become a fight. A real siege.


While its not perfect its definetely a great core concept. It needs changes, but not the way people suggest or the development team heads forward.


A17.1 has two changes on that matter. First, the 60% destroy mode. Its required, it supposed to counter the ramp tactics and fall traps. Its okay.


The other is, zeds destroyblock ai cost got lowered i guess. And thats a bad change.


A17.1 made most A17 base designs useless. Somehow the zeds rather bash trough walls again, instead of following open pathes meters away. Well, if you elevate the whole base using tranches instead of walls, they will still follow the open pathes, since there are no walls to bash trough. But still, thats not a good change. Im not feeling sorry for my base, we already built a new adapted to A17.1, and enjoyed it. The game evolves, we appreciate that.


But I think thats a needless change. The fact the zombies were clever enough to push trough holes and path trough mazes gave a HUGE opportunity to lower zombies' block dmg by a mile. Its the gate to success. The opportunity to tunnel zombies offered a fun gameplay, made hordenight not a chore but a battle. We all look at it weird how the zeds destroy concrete walls by hand like knife cuts trough paper. This is the key to make a balanced and fun playstyle and a great tower defense game.


Of course, if zeds are clever but has loooow block dmg, its easy to defend. Just build a wall.

Thats where critical mass comes into play. More zeds-> more block dmg. If they pile up under your wall, they can cleave trough with time. But only if they have to. If they can path trough, they will.


You see that right, tunneling zeds and raping them on its own is not perfect. There need to be counter methods to make it challanging, but pls NOT by reverting it to A16.


SO, REVERT A17.1 CHANGES TO A17. Instead of forcing zeds to destroy blocks again, let them be smart again. And make other, balanced counters to defenses.


Like a...


BATTERING RAM. While the player casually shooting the head of tunneled zombies trying to pass trough a barbed wire maze, there are other threats that can mess up this peaceful strategy. Lets say Hawai turists are siege units. AND THEY ACT SO. While all zombies try to path trough least resistance, the battering Ram just goes straight trough everything, since he knows he can. His AI cost to destroy blocks should be low.


Hawai turists are not fooled by mases, they ram trough walls. Their attacks have a distinct sound, alarming the player of the threat.


NINJAS. Another distraction could be the spiders. They has the ability to hop over most walls but they are not using it. Why the FCK spiders go into my maze? He should climb the damn wall dammit. They could see any vertical surface as ladders and following their own path, reaching players who casually shooting other zeds in peace.


CATAPULT. Police cops can shoot. Then why the hell they are trying to come and get me? They should be the long range enemy hurling acid on my fort, siegeing it. The player has to go out, or onto a vantage point and pick them off.



BOMBER. Vultures are amazing annoyers. They are able to strike vantage points, or bombarding the fort with acid.


See? This would be awesome. Stop pushing all zeds left and right, then back again in general.

Make em different with specialities, also give them their own AI to use em.


Normal zeds are following least resistance.

Rams drill trough walls, making alternative entrances for normal zeds to flow into.

Spider hops/climbs over defenses, hunting you down.

Police siegeing your base from afar.

Vulture keeps you in bay.


These are only the options already in game. You have the grail in your hand, you only need a clever design. Some basic vision.


You have all the tools, the assets, the AI to create a worthy game.


A17 AI is a fantastic foundation for a cool tower def game, dont change it back. Instead add other zeds, who can prevent or annoy player strategy, requiring a counter strategy.

But pls, dont try to make even basic zombies to counter every approach. It leads nowhere.


There are ramp tactics? Make ONE zed that counters it. RAM zed goes into destroy mode if fallen down 100%. Its enough. Spiders already should be able to leap over them. Dont need every zed to be able to counter everything.


Normals are simple grunts. They are awesome as flooding braindeads following barbed-up tunnels, while the player shootin em.


But if you mix in a destroyer zed, it splits the attention of the player(s). And that is how you counter player strategies.


Also if normal zeds are that smart they dont have to be able to cleave trough concrete. They only need just enough power to cleave trough 2 block and with that AI, they will be a threat.

And there should be other zeds, whos purpose is to destroy that 2 blocks, letting others with the Pathfinder AI to flow in.



Im not that coherent i wanted to be, sry about that.

Wish you the best!

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