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Posts posted by Solomon

  1. 20 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

    No, the iron tool is faster than the stone one but still slower then the steel one.


    So in the end, until you have steel tools you can decide if you want to take a long time but save 100 stamina with stone, or do it quick and "waste" stamina with iron.

    I usually don't use stone tools from when i have enough stamina regen to use iron. Because iron is much much faster.

    With the stamina regen rate of approx 10/sec (my current ingame regen rate) you also need to account in atleast 10 second downtime for the iron tool to gain back that 100 stamina.


    With 100 starting stamina you need approx 28 seconds have enough stamina to destroy the 1000 hp block with an iron tool this is 38 second downtime and with steel its 29 seconds.


  2. 6 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

    And now correct your math by taking ALL variables into accout, e.g. TIME. All of them have different swing times. So even if a steel pickaxe requires 392 stamina for 15 hits, while the stone axe only uses 385 stamina for 47 hits, with the steel pickaxe the block is destroyed much much faster.

    Yeah, i said that. I dont complain about the difference between stone VS steel but that Iron VS everything seems terribly done.


    Iron tools as they currently are manage to cost more stamina to use in dealing with the same block and as such they are kind of slower than dealing with the block with Stone or Steel, to destroy an 1000 hp block with pixaxes the iron uses 100 more stamina then the other two option what means that on day 1 and on day 100 its still worse then the previous and the next tier.

  3. Before anything this post was inspired by @Roland by making me calculate just how good are steel tools are.


    Logically in a game with a tier system each tiers are better then the previous in either all or in some aspect and get balanced around with the idea on what should be the cost of the gains from higher tiers.


    Our game has stone tools, primitive and cheap as hell, iron tools what are costly to make and use more stamina but still quite early and finally steel tools what need lots of effort as they are both expensive and their key component is rare too.


    Now to show the problem heres some quick MATHS :



    Stone Axe: 21-32 block damage for 8 stamina

    Iron Pixaxe: 37-52 block damage for 18 stamina

    Steel Pixaxe: 66-94 damage for 26 stamina


    To destroy an 1000 hp block with a Q1 tool you are going to use up 381 stamina with the Stone Axe in 47 hits, 486 stamina with the Iron Pixaxe in 27 hits and 393 stamina with Steel Pixaxe in 15 hits.

    At max quality its 31 hits with the Stone Axe for 250 stamina, 19 hits with the Iron Pixaxe for 346 stamina and 10 hits with the Steel Pixaxe for 276 stamina.


    Stone Shovel: 38-57 block damage for 16 stamina

    Iron Shovel: 47-69 block damage for 20 stamina

    Steel Shovel: 71-102 block damage for 24 stamina


    To destroy an 1000 hp block with a Q1 shovel you are going to use up 421 stamina in 26 hits with the Stone Shovel, 425 stamina in 21 hits with the Iron Shovel and 338 stamina in 14 hits with the Steel Shovel.


    Stone Axe: 21-32 block damage for 8 stamina

    Iron Axe: 46-66 block damage for 19 stamina

    Steel Axe: 89-130 block damage for 30 stamina


    To destroy an 1000 hp block with a stone axe you need 47 hits for 381 stamina with the stone axe, 21 hits for 413 stamina with the Iron Axe and 11 hits for 337 stamina with the Steel Axe.


    The pattern in all cases is the same, technically iron tools are worse then their previous tier the stone tools. The effort to make them results in a gear whats only pro is that they are faster but the moment you scale up your base block damage throught your server settings that extra speed becomes negligible.


    The fact that steel tools are this close in stamina usage to stone tools is also baffling because you are questioning on why waste the materials on crafting iron tools when you not only get a much faster tool later on but something what uses almost the same if not lower amount of stamina too.


    Since the HP of blocks doesnt scale unless we talk about PVP, Stone and Steel tool will always stay the superior choice of tools.


    Ideally the numbers should look like this for example on the axes should look like one of these:



    Balanced upgrades tiering (damage increases steadily while stamina rises).

    Stone Axe: 21-32 block damage for 8 stamina ( 381 stamina/47 hit )

    Iron Axe: 32-43 block damage for 16 stamina ( 500 stamina/31 hit )

    Steel Axe: 43-54 block damage for 24 stamina ( 558 stamina/23 hit )



    Long term Upgrades tiering (damage increases and stamina usage decreases)

    Stone Axe: 21-32 block damage for 10 stamina ( 476 stamina/47 hit )

    Iron Axe: 33-60 block damage for 15 stamina ( 454 stamina/30 hit )

    Steel Axe: 61-100 block damage for 25 stamina (409 stamina/16 hit )



    Pure Upgrades tiering (damage increases and stamina usage drastically goes down)

    Stone Axe: 21-32 block damage for 10 stamina ( 476 stamina/47 hit )

    Iron Axe: 33-44 block damage for 9 stamina ( 272 stamina/ 30 hit )

    Steel Axe: 44-55 block damage for 8 stamina ( 181 stamina/ 22 hit )


    Each one of these go with the idea that the next tier in one way or another is better then the previous and each one of them support the idea that iron tools are in fact an upgrade to the stone equipment.


    With this in mind i agree that any kind of steel tool on day 1 (supposedly that shoundnt been possible but thats another topic) is overpowered with the current implemention, so i suggest to balance them out so either the middle grade gets better or the high grade gets worse.

  4. 10 hours ago, Roland said:

    A quality 1 steel tool on Day 1 qualifies as too OP

    Okay so first i didnt wanted to believe this so i made my calculations:


    Stone Axe:


    21-32 block damage for 8 stamina


    Iron Pixaxe:


    37-52 block damage for 18 stamina


    Steel Pixaxe:


    66-94 damage for 26 stamina


    To destroy an 1000 hp block with a Q1 tool you are going to use up 381 stamina with the Stone Axe in 47 hits, 486 stamina with the Iron Pixaxe in 27 hits and 393 stamina with Steel Pixaxe in 15 hits.

    At max quality its 31 hits with the Stone Axe for 250 stamina, 19 hits with the Iron Pixaxe for 346 stamina and 10 hits with the Steel Pixaxe for 276 stamina.


    This balance is absolutely bonkers, like theres literally no point in using an iron tool apart from increased speed between tiers because their stamina usage is throught the roof!


    Either iron tools need some serious buffs or steel tools need to be nerfed because it makes no sense this way, the tiers could literally go from Iron->Stone->Steel as they are now currently, just rename iron into "carbon" with some reskins and now you have a low stamina use albeit bit slower but still better option for your building needs.

  5. 3 hours ago, meganoth said:

    With kickstarter it does practically. I have backed upwards of 70 projects on kickstarter, almost all of them games, and I would be lucky to find even one that kept the estimate even in a ballpark sort of way. I was lucky in that a high percentage of them resulted in an acceptable or even high-quality game. But if I made a fuss about delivery date or thought it was some sort of preorder scheme, kickstarter would be a complete failure.


    If you want guarantees, don't use kickstarter and don't use early access. At least steam has that warning on each store page of an EA game that you should only buy the game if you think the current version is worth it. In general if you buy your tv on kickstarter you should get your head examined carefully, because KS is not a TV shop nor amazon.

    Oh, i dont trust kickstarters. I seen too many of them sink away.


    Early access is different, if it functions well enough to be called a game im happy with it. I seen Deep Rock Galactic and Starbound leaving early access and i just dont buy anything what doesnt have playable amount of content.

  6. 1 hour ago, RipClaw said:

    At the moment I am planning a new horde base and I also have to build a crafting base because I have neglected that and still live in a POI.

    This is the freedom the game gives me. A freedom you would never give to players if you where in charge.


    3 minutes ago, Kalen said:

    Please... beyond what we've discussed you have no idea what I would give players if I were in charge.   Lets not make baseless assumptions.   

    Guys you are getting awfully derailed, please stay on topic.


    There are tons of ways to balance around repair even without going for degradation or breaking items, lets focus on those.


  7. 31 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

    There are other things depending that have also changed. E.g. spamcrafting would also exploit the new progression system. And then people probably wonder why the game becomes tough, because they don't realize, they increased their pure level to fast.


    Ruining their own fun is also not completely the point. With the old LBD-versions nights have been much more dangerous because of other mechanics. So in early game you stood in your (almost) safe cabin and just waited for the night to end. There was basically nothing meaningfoll you could do. But just standing there for 15min (with default 60min-days) is also no fun, so most people did the only meaningfull thing they could: Spamcrafting.


    That's why you spamcraft the cheapest thing that is available. Crafting wodden clubs e.g. increased the quality for clubs and just required one wood. So a common task for day 1 was to get like 300-500 wood just for being able to spamcraft the whole night.

    And even if you had no ressources, you ran in circles to improve your athletic skill (didn't give XP but increased the skill).


    LBD could have been fixed, in fact it could have been fixed in a way what still allows you somekind of leveling when you spamcraft.


    Heres the idea:


    We first get a combat tab for any combat related thing after that we get a building tab for every building/crafting related. Perks for extras still exist for everything what doesnt make sense to be put up in that two.


    Spamcrafting will only raise your crafting skills in that specific item and in nothing else. If you craft 200 stone axes that means you will be able to make high grade stone axes personalized for your liking but thats it. It wont ever increase your crafting skill in hammers, clubs, guns, whatever else, only stone axes.


    For example lets take the intellect tab:




    Electrocutioner perk now does 2 things: It passively adds to your combat proefficiency with Stun Batons and to your crafting ability for them while also unlocking extra effects what cant be learned like longer stun, faster charge and soo on.


    Turret Syndrome as the above adds to the combat and crafting ability you gain from using the said items. It governs also various extra effects.


    Better barter, adventurer, charisma, physician all stay as perks.


    Advanced engineering, grease and science passively add to many crafting abilities while unlock certain items. 



    In short the goal would be a hybrid system where LBD governs what, how much and in what quality a player can craft, how good they are with their weapons while the perk system governs special "upgrades" to various aspects of the game.


    • Like 1
    • Dislike 1
  8. 12 minutes ago, Tahaan said:

    I don't buy this.  Firstly building gives zero XP, and secondly Crafting is an important part of this game.  Cooking is just crafting of food items.


    Killing gives XP.

    Building gives XP.

    Destroying / harvesting gives XP.

    Healing gives XP.

    Selling to trader gives XP.

    Looting gives XP.

    Reading a schematic gives XP.

    Crafting does not give XP.

    Building does NOT give XP.

    Upgrading blocks gives XP.

    Mining can be seen as either destroying or harvesting, but it also gives XP.


    So why not crafting?


    As liesel said its gonna be some tech limit from the time we ditched the learn by action system.

  9. 4 hours ago, Tahaan said:

    I also feel it is too much.  Sure it should be some xp but perhaps it needs it 20% nerf.


    On the other hand as the cook and farmer on my server for 8 people when I pick up all the planted crops I earn about 4k XP.  It hardly changes the XP bar and I can do it only every 3 in-game days.  Then I get no XP for cooking the food from it and nothing for giving it to people in the party either.  I have the same nr of kills as people with double or even tripple my level on this server.

    Thats because neither farming/cooking is meant to be main gameplay feature.


    Its building and killing, so by default these are the most rewarding aspects.

  10. 12 minutes ago, Psychodabble said:

    Care to elaborate? Which Alpha(s)? I've only been around since Alpha 10, so maybe it was some time before then?


    If so, it's been a VERY long time since that idea has been part of this game.

    Alpha 13 maybe, im not sure but its in the code still. Every item has a line what says if something breaks it deletes itself and you can set it true or false.

  11. 20 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

    They are not just rare to loot, you can also craft them for basically nothing. Except maybe from early early game we never had a shortage of repair kits. We usually even do repair found items before selling them to the trader. So after looting a big POI there are easily spent 30 repair kits onto items we want to sell. We have enough of them, there is not a single thought spent on if we can afford to repair something.

    I still remember  randomly finding a full stack of repair kits in a garage.

    I believe that repairing could be the key to fixing the economy because no matter how much ammo or guns you find at the start if you cant use them much because you got no repair packs early on and the alternatives are either expensive or take too much time.

    • Dislike 2
  12. 4 hours ago, Beelzybub said:

    If it's on the same lan I'd guess it's either firewall or anti-virus.

    Wrong password maybe?

    Wrong password wouldnt even let him connect but the problem is that i can see his char materializing.


    Im gonna add some more data on what exactly we see.

    3 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

    Could be network congestion, data issues, a bad node, general internet, wifi interference, whatever. There are literally like a thousand things I can come up with off the top of my head.  A lot of them are covered in the Sticky FAQ. 


    A lot more information would be needed. The issue is almost certainly outside of the game client.

    Edited with more information.

  13. I always thought that traps are seriously underdeveloped for a game about surviving a horde onslaught every 7 day.


    We now have a pusher turret, 3 different type of shooter turrets, 1 dart trap and 2 different type of slowers. Games where there are this big emphasis on defending yourself against hordes usually either have masses of aoe weaponary or masses of various defense objects. We dont even have proper barricade systems because the undead tears throught steel like its nothing.


    No acid/poison sprinklers, no burner/flamethrower turrest, rocket turrets, sniper turret, pitfall traps, actual spke traps, crusher traps, there are tons of age old foulproof concepts of defense ideas.

  14. On 10/28/2020 at 6:39 PM, Demon1337 said:

    Also, i dont want to use any mods for this. So XML edits are likely going to be THE way. 

    Just a small nitpick but XML edits are mods.


    For your problem the best i can suggest is to find any vultures begone mod and see what Xml they exactly modify and how to find out what you need to do.

  15. My brother can no longer join our Lan server, we dont get anything what would show what exactly is the problem except some timeout error:


    This is in my logs:


    2020-10-31T19:43:42 2093.566 INF GMSG: Player 'Z' joined the game
    2020-10-31T19:43:42 2093.568 INF PlayerSpawnedInWorld (reason: JoinMultiplayer, position: -526, 52, -967): EntityID=12715, PlayerID='76561198315840974', OwnerID='76561198315840974', PlayerName='Z'
    2020-10-31T19:44:00 2111.626 INF Time: 31.14m FPS: 46.50 Heap: 3277.4MB Max: 3308.9MB Chunks: 360 CGO: 251 Ply: 2 Zom: 0 Ent: 8 (61) Items: 2 CO: 2 RSS: 10784.9MB
    2020-10-31T19:44:14 2125.585 INF NET: LiteNetLib: Client disconnect from: (Timeout)
    2020-10-31T19:44:14 2125.585 INF [NET] PlayerDisconnected EntityID=12715, PlayerID='76561198315840974', OwnerID='76561198315840974', PlayerName='Z'
    2020-10-31T19:44:14 2125.585 INF Player disconnected: EntityID=12715, PlayerID='76561198315840974', OwnerID='76561198315840974', PlayerName='Z'
    2020-10-31T19:44:14 2125.586 INF GMSG: Player 'Z' left the game


    I host the game on lan on my Win 7 computer, my brother plays on win 10. Same house, connected to the same router.


    When i get the first message upper i can literally see his char appear ingame while on his side there are not error messages and such, the game practically just freezes out.


    Heres whats in my brothers log:


    2020-10-31T19:42:23 543.095 INF Allowed ChunkViewDistance: 6
    2020-10-31T19:42:30 549.942 INF Created player with id=12715
    2020-10-31T19:42:30 550.008 INF Found own player entity with id 12715
    WARNING: Shader Unsupported: 'Standard' - Pass 'META' has no vertex shader
    WARNING: Shader Unsupported: 'Standard' - Pass 'META' has no vertex shader
    2020-10-31T19:42:35 555.059 INF Created player with id=12381
    2020-10-31T19:42:38 557.985 INF Origin Reposition (0.0, 0.0, 0.0) to (-512.0, 48.0, -960.0)
    2020-10-31T19:43:08 588.071 INF OpenSpawnWindow
    Calling Animator.GotoState on Synchronize layer
    (Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Modules/Animation/Director/AnimatorControllerPlayable.cpp Line: 1370)

    2020-10-31T19:43:47 626.451 INF Respawn almost done
    2020-10-31T19:43:48 627.399 INF GMSG: Player 'Z' joined the game
    2020-10-31T19:46:29 788.613 INF NET: LiteNetLib: Connection closed: RemoteConnectionClose
    2020-10-31T19:46:31 790.723 INF [NET] DisconnectedFromServer: Server closed the connection
    2020-10-31T19:46:58 817.495 INF [EAC] Disconnected from game server
    2020-10-31T19:46:58 817.888 INF Exited thread NCS_Writer_0
    2020-10-31T19:46:58 817.998 INF Exited thread NCS_Reader_1
    2020-10-31T19:46:59 818.378 INF Exited thread NCS_Reader_0
    2020-10-31T19:46:59 818.643 INF Exited thread NCS_Writer_1
    2020-10-31T19:47:13 833.214 INF SaveAndCleanupWorld
    2020-10-31T19:47:14 834.257 INF [Steamworks.NET] Stopping server
    2020-10-31T19:47:15 834.327 INF [Steamworks.NET] Exiting Lobby



    Both of us have validated the game files.



  16. On 10/30/2020 at 2:54 PM, meganoth said:

    Not sure if it ever will be in the main game, but in SP at least you can use a debug function that shows SI on blocks (if I remember correctly)


    Im not sure how that thing even works, it seems like it generates only a "green=okay" and "black=could collapse at any time" warning.

  17. 23 hours ago, Boidster said:

    Your perception of the reason I brought up mods is different from my intent. I did not mean, "stop complaining, there's a mod for that". I meant, "you [Stranded Napkin] appear to have a balance issue with how you prefer to play a non-vanilla game. Here's a way to alleviate that issue so you enjoy the game more, today, right now, without waiting for A19.3, A20, or A21". Jus' tryin' to solve problems, man.


    With the game still under very active development (and very specifically including the loot system) I just don't get too worked up over balance issues, especially ones which are trivial to adjust. And especially especially when I am intentionally monkeying with game settings or gameplay rules in a way that will obviously negatively affect the balance that the developers have put in there.


    "I made these changes and now the balance is off!"

    "Here's a way to restore some of that balance, in light of how you yourself have chosen to change the game..."



    I wonder some times if criticism is the goal, not the means.

    I get that but exactly because the game is still in early and active development its important to voice every possible problem you may find from balance to bugs, everything.


    Once the game enters a more finalized stage there will be almost no chance for bigger mechanics changes so if for example you dont like how vehicles are working at that point your complaint will be just wasted time because theres no more time to fix it.

  18. I honestly dont care much about anti cheat systems as long as its not something shady what permanently runs in the background throttling the system or something like Easy Anti-Cheat whats latest update has successfully managed to kill of several members of the playerbase of all games what uses their system.


    Whenever it gets updated or not shouldnt be a priority at this stage.

  19. 16 hours ago, Boidster said:

    No offense taken! It is nice once in a while to visually inspect the back side of my eye sockets, as I did just after reading your post. Optic nerve lookin' good!

    Okay that caught me offguard, lol.


    Sorry mate but i never really had anything positive come out from a discussion when people start to bring up "theres a mod for that".


    • You dont like the current loot system? Theres a mod for that.
    • You dont like the supersonic vultures? Theres a mod for that.
    • You dont like the graphics? Mods.
    • You think theres not enough weapons? Mods.
    • You need a better working electricity system? Mods.
    • Hotel? Trivago.

    It just kills the discussion because you no longer move forward but practically ended it all with "theres a mod for that.".

  20. 19 hours ago, meganoth said:

    I agree that the information how much something can hold is slightly hidden. A block in my inventory tells me immediately what it can hold and its weight, but a block in the world does not.


    Such an information deficit happens when you want to attach blocks to an existing poi and it happens when you upgrade. On the other hand the game gives you the means to find out. For example: If you want to find out how much weight some block can hold, just add wood frames until they collapse. Multiply the max number of wood frames it held by 5 (the weight of a wood frame) and you have the weight it can hold.


    True thought i believe this would be better to be baked into some function like somekind of "look" action binded to "R" on upgrading tools. This way you could check all blocks fast if you are confused.



  21. 20 hours ago, Liesel Weppen said:

    Yeah, that had worked well with the 600 quality levels back then. (i'm not even sure if it lowered the quality or it lowered durability, or even both?) But with the just 6 levels now, imho it is too much backdraw.

    So if you e.g. find your first blunderbuss you can't even repair it once, because to what should it downgrade then? T0? Or found a T2 and once you have to repair it first it immediately downgrades to a T1, like the other 5 blunderbuss you already have anyway?

    I try to exclude all stone gear by default but your comment really does show a problem.

    Most guns are great even at T1 only melee weapons become staggeringly weak at T1 when traditionally they have the most dangerous gamestyle.


    How does it sound that each repair puts on a stacking damage debuff on the weapons? 1% per stack for guns and 0.5% for melee?

    This way till you properly repair your stuff it does not only just degraded back into a lower tier but also becomes progressively weaker with each repair and this would work the best with Option B suggestion.

  22. So i think that changing the repair process ingame would make an excellent way to balance early gameplay without messing with the loot system.


    I have to main ideas for how to fix the issue but if you have another option we could choose feel free to say it. In both versions stone tools stay unaffected because they are not supposed to be hard to repair and/or replace.



    Option A: Restricting the entire repair system


    First repair by hand is only possible with repair packs but repair packs are now rare and expensive items. Seriously we dont need them raining down on us.


    Their drop chance should be around 5% max to make sure they are rare items what you cant just amass like you currently do, to reflect this a repair kit now needs the following to be crafted:


    • 10 Forged Iron
    • 20 Oil
    • 10 Duct tape
    • 50 Mechanical Parts
    • 50 Electrical Parts
    • Claw Hammer
    • Wrench


    The trader also seels this item for 5000 Dukes to reflect the increased costs to make a repair pack.


    At the base you can repair ANY item at the workbench costing parts and or raw materials. All repairs should follow a basic formula when they have parts [ 10 parts for repair at T1 and +10 parts for every tier above 1 ] and for raw materials it should take a certain amount of raw materials.


    For example:


    Repair cost of a T4 Claw hammer:

    • 20 Forged Iron (5 at T1 and +5/tier)
    • 8 Wood (2 at T1 and +2/tier)


    Repair cost of a T6 M60:

    • 60 Machine Gun parts (10 at T1 and +10/tier)


    If someone maxes out the relevant perk to the items they can gain a 10% decrease for those repairs and with the addition of some books these costs could be further made cheaper in the endgame.



    Option B: Repairing causes items to degrade what can be upgraded back.



    This version is made to create a gameplay loop where you use an item till it "breaks", repair it and once you are in a safe spot fix it up to its previous or an even higher tier.


    T1 to T5 is all upgradeable by using a certain amount of weapon parts, to upgrade a T3 gear to T5 you would need to get 20 more parts or the specific raw materials for it. You can only upgrade to the highest amount your perks allow.


    T6 items would be only upgradeable by a Trader to keep the items uncraftable by players.


    The amount needed for the upgrade varies on how much you let it degrade, its cheaper to spend 10 parts on a gun because it gone from T4 to T3 then go and spend 40 because you let it go all the way back into T1.



    What is your opinion about these and in general do you think the ingame economy of loot could by fixed by changing up how repair works?

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