Kiern

Well the post you quoted clarified what I meant, so the other posts, if unclear, didn't matter, because that one summed up what I was referring to. And I did mention it in a previous post too. The other difficulties exist, but are not a problem by themselves. The status issue is the main problem. With that in place, the other "normal" challenges compound the problem. And, at the time, as I mentioned, I saw no mention of it being a bug they were going to fix, so I saw that as a big problem, if it was working as intended. The water and food situation can be a smaller issue for new players, so adding an extra water and better food item should tide them over until they find a cooking pot and grill. And an addition to the note to tell them they might want to look for those things would probably be good. The problem with the other posts, is that only one person asked what I meant. One person just said "No", and then went on a rant about how easy the game is. Now I am looking at it from my perspective of not knowing that TFP mentioned it was a bug they were working on, and that I was only talking about getting them through the first day, so new players had some time to figure things out. Apparently, that person thought I meant changing the game to make it easier. So, we ended up with a little back and forth because we were not understanding each other's side. For example, the meat thing you mentioned, I was thinking only about day 1, and was assuming they meant that they could figure out all of the things they mentioned on day 1, which I thought was ridiculous. Now I get that we were just in too different places, so most of those comments were irrelevant to the discussion. So, yeah, that kind of muddied the waters. I made an edit to my OP to clarify what I meant.

At least read the entire post you are quoting before writing a long response that talks about things I never even suggested. I said exactly what I meant in that post you quoted. The status effects are the problem. I saw no mention of this on their known issues page. If it is working as intended, then all those other factors I mentioned would come into play. if not, most of them don't. You mentioned when we started playing. It wasn't like this when we started playing. That is the problem. I mentioned that my concern was for the people that bought the game during the summer sale and are experiencing all of these status effects. I mentioned stamina as an issue, not by itself, but because the status effects compounded any other issues new players might have. if you can't run, jump, or attack, then the status effects will happen more often. That is what is punishing, not the stamina itself. I even said in that post that you quoted that I was only suggesting that they add a water or two to start with and maybe a better food item. Maybe some extra bandages and meds if the status effects are working as intended. And, maybe add a line or two to that pop-up note from the guy that saved us that they need to find a cooking pot and grill. I don't see how that is treating players like the are 5 years old. If the status effects get fixed, then I would still suggest an extra water and better food item and the note. That's all. Just enough to give them some breathing room on that first day, while they are trying to figure things out. The rest was just me countering what the person I quoted was saying. And, yes, I looked at those positive reviews. One of them is mine, from two days ago.

Again, you are talking from the view point of an experienced player. And, you got to learn when the game gave you plenty of time to do that, but you think new players should have a harder time doing that. Players "figuring stuff out" takes time. No, I don't think that players will immediately know they can get meat from chickens and rabbits, just like I don't think they will immediately know they can use a shovel on bundles and sacks. And it is definitely hard to hit them. They dart away very quickly and run erratically, and the starting bow is terrible and takes a lot of practice. Look at all of the things you say they can "figure out" or "Learn". That takes time, and much of it is not as obvious as you try to make it out. You know it now, so it seems obvious because of that. You can no longer see things from the perspective of a new player. Now, much of the problems I was mentioning were directly related to the status effect issues. You say they are fixing it. if that is true, then a large part of the problem will be resolved. I just don't see it on the known issues list. I mentioned that that was the biggest problem. I only mentioned stamina as an issue because of how easily the status effects are getting applied. If they can't move or fight back and keep getting those status effects, it is going to be extremely frustrating, and they will likely die over and over. When you started playing, this was not an issue. If it is fixed, then stamina is fine. I'm guessing you didn't see what I was suggesting, outside of doing something about the status overload. An extra bandage, or two, an extra water, and maybe a better food item, and maybe some meds, if the status effects were working as intended. I can't believe you think that is a big deal. Btw, the number of daily players is not "staying up there". It was steadily losing players until A21 came out and people came back for it, and then the boost from the summer sale. However, if things stay as they are, they could lose those new players they gained, and maybe get bad reviews that prevent further sales. As I pointed out in my original post, that is why I made it in the first place. The influx of new players and their first impressions based on the current state of the game. You may be OK with them losing players, but I would guess that TFP would want the game to appeal to as many people as possible. If the status effects get fixed, that takes care of about 90% of the issue, and the rest would be minor. I just hope they can resolve it soon.

Yeah, I mean, they haven't mentioned it in the roadmap or on their known issues list, so we have no idea if they are planning to change those things. It's better to mention it. If they are already planning on doing it they will ignore the post, if not they may add it to the list. I'm just providing feedback. They can do what they want with it. I don't think there will be any major overhauls after A22. Last I heard they expected the Gold release to come after A22. Not a commitment, of course. They also mentioned that they may have an early release version for console in A22. That may be even less firm, and more of a guess, because another company is developing that. Once it goes to console they can't do those major overhauls that require you to start a new game. Sony and Microsoft frown on that, apparently.

Well, they haven't mentioned updating the tutorial or spawn points, so I wouldn't assume it. The tutorial doesn't cover the water situation, the journal does, and most people won't know, or think to read that. They could just add something in that pop-up from the guy that rescued us, telling them that they will need to find those things. That would be pretty easy to add in. If they are already working on some of these things, they can read my suggestions and know they are already working on it. If not, it may give them something to think about. You are being even more generous than I was thinking, with the supplies. Maybe just one or two extra of each, or at least a better food item than a can of pasta. Other things will depend on whether the current status situation is intended or a bug. More bandages, and maybe a painkiller and honey, if it is working as intended. If they make it like it was, they can probably do without those.

Part of it would depend on whether the debuff overload is actually a bug or working as intended. It was not on their list of known issues despite a lot of people complaining about it. They could start players with a little more food, water, bandages, meds, etc. They could expand the tutorial, and explain that they will need to find a pot to boil water, and a grill and where to look for them. They could make sure they always spawn closer to a trader rather than 1-2k away. They could explain how to improve their stamina, and other basics. New players may assume that their stamina will always suck. None of that is going to make the game easier, overall. It will just make the early game a little less unforgiving to new players, and provide them with a bit more information on what they need to do.

You are looking at it from an experienced player's point of view, not from the perspective of a player that knows nothing about the game. Sorry, but new players are not going to be able to easily chase down chickens and rabbits. They won't even know that they can get meat from them. Cooking pots are definitely not in 70% of kitchens. Maybe 20% tops, and it is heavily RNG dependent. Not to mention, new players don't even know they need them, so aren't going to be looking for them right away. Status effects are brutal now. Stamina sucks in the early game and new players are going to constantly be in situations where they can't run, jump, or use their weapon and get hit and have a bunch of status effects applied. They wouldn't know anything about a dew collector, and wouldn't be able to build one even if they did. It's not the plastics that is the issue, it's the filters. All the stuff you mention is stuff you only know because you have been playing the game a while and know what you need to do and how to do it. Which you learned when the start of the game was easier. New players won't have that knowledge or skill. Not sure what your issue is with making a better starting experience for new players. The Fun Pimps, however, need to concern themselves with making a good first impression with new players, whether you like it or not. I posted feedback for them. They can make the decision for themselves.

Well, that's the thing. They are status effects are way over the top atm, and can be applied in one hit. Lets face it, new players are going to get hit a lot. Stamina is horrible in the beginning, and that will be frustrating enough. And, I'm talking new players just starting out. They won't have a stack of pain pills to use, or any other meds. They have nothing but a can of pasta sauce, one bandage, and one water. They will have to find a cooking pan to boil more water and a grill to cook with. Even as an experienced player, the RNG in finding these things can be very generous or extremely stingy. I just started a new game and it took me days of searching kitchens to find both. In my previous game I found both in the same place, very early on. New players, however, won't even know they need these items. I can foresee new players dying a lot in frustrating ways that they have no control over, and just giving up on the game. I'm not talking about making the game easier, just not as punishing in the early game. New players should have some time to figure things out. Your comparisons to Checkers, Chess and Go are not accurate of the situation I am talking about. It would be more like you losing on the first move of the game, over and over. How long would a new player keep playing if that were the case?

It was a random map and I didn't give it a seed name, but it was 8k. Unfortunately, I deleted the save because I didn't like the starting town, and wasn't planning on mentioning the ferals until I saw this. I just wrote them off as flukes. I only mentioned it here, in case it was part of a more widespread issue. There were no wasteland areas nearby, that I could see. IIRC, there was a mountain range behind me, so there could have been one on the other side of that, but it was pretty steep, and I was pretty far from it. The one in the building was well on my way to the trader and there was nothing but grass and trees in all directions.

I have been playing the game for a while, so I can deal with all of the changes (Most of which I really like), but they do make the early game much more difficult, and mention of the Steam summer sale made me think about new players. New players already have a lot to figure out, without all the additional things that can frustrate and kill them. Not only is water harder to come by, but you can't boil it until you find a cooking pot. You also need to find a grill to make some of the basic food items. Then there are the ridiculously easy to get status effects. In that early game you are going to get them often, especially as a newer player still trying to get used to the mechanics. Stamina has always been an early game issue, but now it is compounded by all of these other issues. New players should be eased into the game, but they are now being thrown immediately into the deep end. Can you imagine what a new player would think when the left side of their screen is full of status effects, they can't run, they can jump, they get stunned easily, they bleed out, they get infected, they're starving and dehydrated, etc, and they have no way to fix it, even if they knew how. Yes, in time these things will be much less of an issue, but they won't know that. That is their first, possibly only, impression of the game. Many will assume that is just how the whole game is and give up. It may not be the best idea to design the game specifically around players who have been playing for years. Just some food for thought. No need to reply. I'm good with the new challenges, and I know it gets better once I get some items and skills under my belt. Unfortunately, new players won't have that knowledge to motivate them to push through. EDIT: Some people have misunderstood what I am suggesting. The main issue is how status effects are being applied so easily. With how stamina is in the early game, new players are going to get hit a lot, and get these status effects a lot and possibly die a lot. I'm not suggesting there is a problem with stamina, only that because the early game stamina drain, the status effects are even more brutal for inexperienced players. I am not suggesting that the game be made easier, in general. Mostly I would like to see the status effects changed. I did not see this on the known issue list, so i didn't know if this was working as intended. If it is, then it is going to be a bad experience for new players. Some have said that one of the devs said that it was being worked on. I did not see this, but if that is the case then most of my concerns will be addressed. Other than that, maybe an extra water, a better food item, and something added to the game to let players know they need to find a cooking pot and grill. It could be in the pop-up note from the guy that saved us. If the status effects are working as intended, which i hope is not the case, then I would suggest starting with a few more bandages, a honey, some painkillers, and a splint. I am not suggesting that the game be made easier.

Yep, but I have run into them just making my way from the tutorial spawn to the trader, in the middle of nowhere, in the forest biome, during the day, on normal difficulty. One was in a destroyed building in the middle of nowhere. It wasn't even a POI. The other was shortly after leaving the tutorial area. I saw one walking toward me and thought I would get some XP, and walked toward him. He started sprinting at me and then I saw the yellow eyes, and I panicked. I have seen a few others, but they were a little later on.

On my current map there is a waterway in the middle of the city, and there is a large sewer pipe that you can enter. It is not a normal POI and does not have a name associated with it (not that shows up, anyway), but I will give some details that you may recognize. It leads to a water filled room with a large cylinder in the center. You have to drop down into the water, and there are some zombies lounging on the bottom. There is a ladder in the center of the cylinder, but it is way to high to use. There is also a walkway with one section of ladder on each side. They look like they would be useable, but apparently they are just a tad out of reach. I could not place blocks beyond the first one since I could not jump, so I had to build a ladder myself and attach it to the existing ladder to extend it down to a place where I could use it to get out. The outside of that building is grey brick with two silos. The larger one has an octagon shape, and the smaller one next to it is round. I hope that is enough to go by. I can't imagine that this drowning chamber was intended.

Nope. I created a new RWG map for A21 experimental and am still using it for A21 Stable. It happened in both experimental and stable. I've got Steam validating the files now. I'll let you know if it happens again after that is done.

This may be related to something I have been seeing on my random map. When I get to a mission POI and click on the exclamation to reset the POI, sometimes it changes to a different POI. The first time it was a small post office that changed to a bigger one that took out the POI's on either side. This has happened several other times, but they changed to completely different POI's. The only one that I noticed the name of, before hand, was for a mission POI name that was shown as a family residence, but it was that large site with the 6 concrete silos. However, when I clicked on the exclamation point it changed to a house. The name did not change, so it seems that the POI that is loaded is different from the name of the POI and changes to the proper one when reset for a mission.