I'm playing in a group with 6 or 7 friends. We typically have between 3 and 5 people online together at a time, and nearly all of us have been playing since like... A10. We've played several group games like this, some of them past day 70. But this time we are struggling, on Adventurer difficulty. We've had TPKs on at least half of our horde nights so far, with horde bases that were considered pretty solid early-game and even mid-game builds. Then we decided we wanted to pack up and move to the burnout zone to get to see Trader Jen, and see more of the 1.0 game. Hoo boy. Big mistake.
It's been nonstop rad-screamer swarms around the house and base, and every quest and horde night has thrown more neon green at us than a Disney villain! We only just got a fully concrete horde base set up in time for day 35 and the acid storm and rad zombies MELTED through to us in about 30 seconds.
Something has definitely changed! But I'm not seeing as many people talking about it as I'd expect, so I guessed it's only being this extreme for bigger groups. It used to be that we'd start seeing cops in POIs, and then one or two would show up on horde night soon after. Then we'd start running into ferals... same. Then omg rad zombies! And then a week or so later, a few of them come in with the horde... and then a few more. Now it's the other way around. Hordes of horrid abominations flooded us on day 21... then started showing up a few at a time on quests.
So I did some digging on the wiki about how game stage is calculated now, and looking at how the game has been for us, I think I understand what's going on? TL,DR: the game difficulty is double-dipping how much harder it gets for multiple players now. Quests and POI zombies scaling up in type by "party game stage" makes sense, and really makes them more of a challenge! But Horde Nights and screamer spawns already spawn more numbers of Zs directly proportional to number of players, and now they're also scaling each of those Zs to a "party game stage" well above the game stage of the highest level player! And the biome bonus applies to each player before that, and while the diminishing returns modifier hits it for each player after the 1st, it still adds a LOT more if you're in a party.
Example: 3 players with game stages at 80, 70, and 40 are in a party. The party game stage used to decide what kinds of zombies to spawn for them is 80 + 70x(0.5) + 40x(0.25) = 125
With 5 players on together all around game stage 80, that means you are getting 5 times the number of Zs all spawning at game stage 155 for Horde Night. Then we've also observed the burnout zone is adding about 50 to each of our game stages when we enter it. But for 5 players, that's adding a total of 50 + 50*(0.5) + 50*(0.25) + 50*(0.125) + 50*(0.0625) , approaching 100, for a total game stage of 255. We wind up with a huge swarm of late-game rad zombies when we've only just gotten a concrete mixer.
I don't know if I've understood this 100% correctly, but it definitely lines up with what we've observed in our game. If correct, then what I'd humbly request/suggest of the Fun Pimps would be to dial this change back just a bit:
- Move the zombie-type scaling of horde night and screamer spawns back to individual player's game stages instead of "party game stage." Or at most make it scale the game stage for the group to the highest level player, instead of like double or triple their game stage. This will also keep the increase from zones from doubling up.
- Keep the "party game stage" calculation for POI and quest zombie types, since the numbers on those don't scale up as much, and it makes for some neat boss fights when group-questing!
- But also if you can, make it so that the party-game-stage calculates based on the number of players present and accounted for (already checked at quest start "!") rather than also including the party members crafting back at base or off doing their own thing. A lot of us just party up as allies connect, because it's easy and then we don't have to constantly un-party and re-party, and we can see where each other are on are on our maps. But the new changes seem to really punish this. Going out to do a simple Level 2 Buried Supplies quest on your own and getting a face full of rad-hulks and feral bikers hurts!
Edit History
I'm playing in a group with 6 or 7 friends. We typically have between 3 and 5 people online together at a time, and nearly all of us have been playing since like... A10. We've played several group games like this, some of them up to day 70. But this time we are struggling, on Adventurer difficulty. We've had TPKs on at least half of our horde nights so far, with horde bases that were considered pretty solid early-game and even mid-game builds. Then we decided we wanted to pack up and move to the burnout zone to get to see Trader Jen, and see more of the 1.0 game. Hoo boy. Big mistake.
It's been nonstop rad-screamer swarms around the house and base, and every quest and horde night has thrown more neon green at us than a Disney villain! We only just got a fully concrete horde base set up in time for day 35 and the acid storm and rad zombies MELTED through to us in about 30 seconds.
Something has definitely changed! But I'm not seeing as many people talking about it as I'd expect, so I guessed it's only being this extreme for bigger groups. It used to be that we'd start seeing cops in POIs, and then one or two would show up on horde night soon after. Then we'd start running into ferals... same. Then omg rad zombies! And then a week or so later, a few of them come in with the horde... and then a few more. Now it's the other way around. Hordes of horrid abominations flooded us on day 21... then started showing up a few at a time on quests.
So I did some digging on the wiki about how game stage is calculated now, and looking at how the game has been for us, I think I understand what's going on? TL,DR: the game difficulty is double-dipping how much harder it gets for multiple players now. Quests and POI zombies scaling up in type by "party game stage" makes sense, and really makes them more of a challenge! But Horde Nights and screamer spawns already spawn more numbers of Zs directly proportional to number of players, and now they're also scaling each of those Zs to a "party game stage" well above the game stage of the highest level player! And the biome bonus applies to each player before that, and while the diminishing returns modifier hits it for each player after the 1st, it still adds a LOT more if you're in a party.
Example: 3 players with game stages at 80, 70, and 40 are in a party. The party game stage used to decide what kinds of zombies to spawn for them is 80 + 70x(0.5) + 40x(0.25) = 125
With 5 players on together all around game stage 80, that means you are getting 5 times the number of Zs all spawning at game stage 155 for Horde Night. Then we've also observed the burnout zone is adding about 50 to each of our game stages when we enter it. But for 5 players, that's adding a total of 50 + 50*(0.5) + 50*(0.25) + 50*(0.125) + 50*(0.0625) , approaching 100, for a total game stage of 255. We wind up with a huge swarm of late-game rad zombies when we've only just gotten a concrete mixer.
I don't know if I've understood this 100% correctly, but it definitely lines up with what we've observed in our game. If correct, then what I'd humbly request/suggest of the Fun Pimps would be to dial this change back just a bit:
- Move the zombie-type scaling of horde night and screamer spawns back to individual player's game stages instead of "party game stage." Or at most make it scale the game stage for the group to the highest level player, instead of like double or triple their game stage. This will also keep the increase from zones from doubling up.
- Keep the "party game stage" calculation for POI and quest zombie types, since the numbers on those don't scale up as much, and it makes for some neat boss fights when group-questing!
- But also if you can, make it so that the party-game-stage calculates based on the number of players present and accounted for (already checked at quest start "!") rather than also including the party members crafting back at base or off doing their own thing. A lot of us just party up as allies connect, because it's easy and then we don't have to constantly unparty and re-party, and we can see where each other are on are on our maps. But the new changes seem to really punish this. Going out to do a simple Level 2 Buried Supplies quest on your own and getting a face full of rad-hulks and feral bikers hurts!