Lokeus
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20 hours ago, RhinoW said:
I might be a minority here, but I really think bandits is possibly one of the worst things to add to the game. It will 100% take a bunch of time to make, needing more complex AI and animations than the zombies, and it will come with its fair share of bugs until it is fixed, which will take up more time.
Time that could be used to focus on the main selling points of this game, which is the sandbox exploration and tower defense/7 day horde and polishing it. Why would they add something the game clearly doesn't need? Hats of to them for going with the duke storyline and having all that cool concept art and most likely really neat end game ideas in the backlog, but isn't that essentially shifting the focus of the game into 2 major parts? Bandits/Storyline and Zombies? When the game has always been about the zombies and surviving them? Only recently (in comparison to how many alphas there are) did the trader actually become something core to the gameplay rather than an elusive spawn on the map.
So many things that still need to be looked into (and I know some of these are already confirmed)
- Stealth and sleepers
- Combat and fluidity (recoil, animations, weapon swapping, hit reactions)
- Gore and VFX update (ex: zombie cop puke)
- Sound update and vehicle physics/controls
- Player character and armor
- New mods/Mod visuals/Mod rebalance
- Swimming
- Biome/PoI identity and zombie variants (remember the frostbitten zombies from previous alphas?)
- Special infected (we need new ones, some for bloodmoons, some for PoIs, some for both, and with very distinct abilities to make the player have to think about their base building)
- Blood Moon spawns (currently it's just shoot the bullet sponges that decide to focus on a single block until the demolisher comes which then punishes you from shooting a horde)
7 days to die is the only PVE survival zombie game out there that is able to differentiate itself from others and actually innovate, rather than being a reskin of your average survival game with X setting. Why would they go the route of adding bandits, to, let's be real, an already buggy game with its current AI. Never once in my life did I think "Damn, this game really needs human enemies".
I agree mostly with your arguments. I am also not sure if the bandits will work in a way it will satisfy me. I also fear that they will just introduce them as a new stronger and special enemy type but i do not really think they will behave like real bandits would do. I hardly doubt that they will scavenge the towns or trading with you or other groups in an realistic manner. Interaction won`t be very immersive so just don`t try to do so. Focus on battling it would be fun just to encounter them, being annoyed an when they are too strong and established on one spot, it would be cool to hire your own bandits to do some gang fights with them, but please not as a main aspect of the game, it should be a side task. When you don`t want them it should be easy to dodge them. But yes, there are cooler things they could keep focus on. Meh.
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15 hours ago, The_Great_Sephiroth said:
My issue is that I go stealth. So I enter an area, don't step on anything, but five or six ferals drop and charge me... while my stealth meter is at 0 or 1. I don't mind that once in a blue moon, but it happens a LOT in A21. It destroys my stealth playstyle and I wind up going Conan on them.
I ve also seen the video in another thread about T5 POIs in A21 and broken stealth. The point is... meanwhile it is valid to ask if "stealth" should really be a way to play in an horde survival crafting game. You take big advantage when you can play out your stealth ability but in fact - even though zombies shouldn`t be of any big intelligence - THEY should be in advantage, considering that they are hunting for your flesh and shouldn`t even have to really hear or see you. I wouldn`t be too sad if stealth would be removed from the game. Though mechanics for tricking zombies should be expansed. In close situation the amount of possibilities to really trick them is quite limited by now. Give player more chances to defend passively and kill stealth, i think that would be a fair solution.
Just thinking of your favorite movies, player could tie them, really break their mouth so they can`t bite anymore and so they become a markable smaller hazard to the player. Would love that. split off their legs so they become crawlers or do some even harder knockbacks which stun them double or triple time, there are many ways to compensate lack of stealth
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What are you all playing like? Heavy armor style?
I very often play with light armor and so i am very mobile, when hearing dog, i spot as fast as i can high ground, jump on it = danger level 0. Learn acrobatics level 2 and jumping onto high ground for advantage against enemies, especially against animals will grow even bigger. Plus doggys are really really vulnerable. They only make bigger problems when being in a pack, for those reason i often got explosive arrows with me. Oh and speaking about the bow: when i seeing dog hut, i am looking for the dog from above and kill him in sneak mode, they aren`t positioned very smart very often, for obvious reasons. Of course they are able to suprise me sometimes too, but zombies do that too. Uhm... we didn`t speak of new shothole mechanic at doors. One more new penalty for animals.
Don`t fear them much. Really. My cryptonite are dire wolfs and (1500 HP? on difficulty 7of8?) and saber tooth tigers in snow bioms. Moderate resistance plus very high speed plus very common spawn rate in this biome. When i see one he has to die asap.
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Agree. Think about sleepers which aren`t to identify too easy, maybe more similar to the corpses on the ground, without "breathing" animation when in "standby". According to this meshing up the textures much more so player never will be able to say if it is dead body or a sleeper.
Use more locks: Locked wardrobes cannot be opened so stealthy player won`t be able to just open it and shoot at the sleeper while in sleep mode. Let him wake up and
let them make suprise attacks while lock picking or destroying such places containing zombies. Falling down zombies are not too bad, they are already in the game and suprises me often enough, well done here. Think also about breaking out zombies which come out from blocks which are solid and no player expect any enemy inside, such like "trap blocks" like cabins or beds. Insert random triggers: After opening x loot chests spawn horde outside which will set course straight onto the house, also random events inside the POI could spawn and attract zombies outside. Stealthy players will cry a lot about these suggestions, but i think you can make a good overhaul for them too, to let them become invisible better while hiding in some wardrobe, maybe under a bed or things like this.
But of course triggers and events are one thing in singeplayer and completely another one in multiplayer. Will be difficult to get it well balanced.
Atm clearing a POI is just a bit to calcuable
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On 6/22/2023 at 4:16 PM, meganoth said:
I have a different view about this. They did change their progression system completely only once, when they switched from LBD to a perk system over multiple alphas (even though for us players it felt like the main change happened between A16 and A17).
Madmole told me that the LBD system was always only a placeholder, and I think a developer also said that it was a system they got from an asset store or a similar source.
From A17 on they had an almost pure perk system, though the first system in A17 had to be redesigned once for A18. The crafting recipe system though was as long as I have known the game already learn-by-looting, basically. Finding schematics or magazines is just a different implementation of the same, you go out and loot to get better at crafting.
And this crafting recipe system changed in A17 as well to be partly perk-based and was reverted back to be only learn-by-looting again.
So in summary:
Progression of the player changed from LBD --> perks v1 --> perks v2. The evolution ended in A18 basically.
Progression of the player knowledge aka Crafting recipe learning changed from LBL1 --> LBL1 with perks --> LBL2.
Thanks for your sight of view, i started playing 7d2d right after it was released on steam as early access title and followed up development for around... 2 years? There is a big gap in my 7d2d experience with other alpha versions 😄 But though it is still fun to think about the pros and cons of their changes on the learning system. Should be staying in the wilderness without cities and traders be a legit way to play successfully the game? Yes i think so, even though i am thinking that you really have to profit from the ruins of civilization to get real advantages against the zombies. Outside your survival will be very "back to the roots" like for almost all the time, so... i really don`t the the big problem to loot a small wilderness POI from time to time and make your progress this way. Maybe i needs a bit more of stuff like traps and things like that to withstand bigger zombie hordes out in the wild.. But a map only with wilderness POIs and without cities or traders could incredibly fun i guess. Also with the implemented things which A21 already gives you. But i really would like to see waterfalls, "real rivers" as barriage against zombies. Finding existing caves already is an implemented thing but could be done better i guess. IMO they don`t need to change from existing system to satisfy all kind of players, but they could have a bit more focus on better / more exciting wilderness exploration. Huge handmade POI areas for the wilderness could be a valid solution, just keeping away any dungeon system or hidden main loot, but only for carrying players attention to it. And as he explores he will have normal zombie encounters and also average loot piles, this would be a really cool thing, what are you thinking?
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On 6/23/2023 at 12:24 AM, BFT2020 said:
This is probably why I haven't had much of an issue from A20 to A21. I modded A20 to be slower and scrambling for resources.
Legit way to play but trying to become half-god as fast as possible was also an interesting challenge everytime, but got too repetetive by time. I think overall it is really better now and you did well by slowing down your pace in your game. Nice to know that you modded... 😏 I am thinking about playing around with loot stage or loot tables a bit. Do you got any hint for me to learn easy-first-try mods?
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On 6/24/2023 at 6:52 AM, Vaeliorin said:
It was Day 16 (though I play on 2 hours days.)
Regardless, I'd be absolutely fine with them nerfing what the trader can sell. I honestly almost never buy that sort of stuff from the trader (my trader purchases are usually limited to books, beakers, maybe an important mod like the harvesting ones, possibly some meds if I don't have any antibiotics, and solar.)
My latest experiences also says that looking through traders inventory can be a neat thing to do, there may be some fewer usable items, prior to books of course. I like this feeling too. There is this skill i don`t know the name in english, which improve the rarity of traders items. This can bring back some excitement to me i noticed, you also have to skill intelligence for it, guess this won`t be the thing i will do in every new run. What i also like is the quantity of different items is really wide, what i disliked is, many of them just stay even on traders day new selection. Also noticed: The one city i am playing at right now got 3 different traders in it!!! It is fun to give it a try for checking all of them on one day from time to time, just as before, but you don`t even have to travel to a completely another city. Have you experienced that too? This way you can link some interesting logistic tasks to your day. I like these minor changes which affects in a big change of your gameplay - when you are flexible and are willing to divorce from your old way of playing
Also staying one or two days in the wilderness now can be fun and enjoyable.
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Thinking about it... you are absolutely right. Trader was much fun before, but also pushed you a much forwards. So i guess they should add the option "Spawn Traders: ON/OFF" and turning back to old traders with exciting and expensive stuff which really hypes you. Also there a enough out there who don`t like the trader at all. TFP could just remove the trader and let the trader spot be an abandonded place to scavenge. And maybe use as a base
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1 minute ago, meganoth said:
Nice idea, but somewhat time-consuming and expensive for TFP to do as they would have to optimize and balance the LBD system as well and if the "player base" would then want perks back they would have to scrap all other work they have done in the meantime and integrate that with the perk system again. Also they could not add bandits at the same time as that would influence the vote as well.
Maybe a better way would be to actually provide two versions, one with perks and one with LBD. So everybody can have what he wants. Drawback is that TFP would have to support both versions.
(Actually we have two versions available, one with perks and one with LBD (DF). But for some the availability of a mod doesn't count)
What do you think about trying out so many perk systems by TFP? You are right, they seem to try and follow a specific agenda to find a neat final vanilla version which is satisfying not only for them. But to be honest, they are switching way too often for my taste. It seems that their vision changed too often in the past to me. Its not a shame to have Alpha 21 now and A22 in mind, but they could have progressed farther by now...
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I think his focus is on melee weapons, hearing that he is telling about medieval swords and maces. And here the game got a bunch of potential, think about his mentioned stuff, TFP could specialize it for attacking feets, so zeds would fall off. I didn`t dislike the spear in A20, it was quite unique and sometimes really enjoyed playing it. Alternate attack was a standalone feature and as this attack knocked back enemies you could easily pull it out when the zed was on the ground. But you do not use this attack when fighting against 3 or more zeds, throwing was a bad option then.
I think balancing this system for only melee weapons is quite challenging and devs got no focus on it. When the Zeds are running (according to your settings) melee is no such a big issue anymore so it isn`t worth to set focus on it. But yes, a wide range of melee weapons, all with their own unique abilities would be awesome. 😁
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There will be 2 opinions about the survival aspect of this game for all time. And the only solution would be:
Insert an option for "Survivalist mode" where just surviving is @%$#ing challenging, and in standard mode you do it on the fly.
For standard game the point is: There is still much too much food and drinks and in A20 and also in A21 it is a problem for the first... 10 days? After that it is no big deal to feed yourself, only a question of "taking food and drinks with you" or do it in your base to save inventory space.
For me... in a world like this it should be hard as @%$# to find a meal or drink that satisfy you by 100%. And i repeat myself but: This all is reasoned by nuclear incident so make it all radiated. Being radiated should be bad. And also make areas radiated, so you need to find armor to resist it, just my thoughts 🙃
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Second option is great. I think it would be cool if all radio stations have to be enpowered by the player before operating. By enpowering them you can ask for supplies and they will randomly ship them some days after your order in nearby location. Player should then test from time to time if he can contact once more and use count of the radio should be limited. When depleated it only does white noise when use and player have to find another radio.
One step further: When contacting successful the player starts a small horde event where he has to defend the radio. Standard random horde, not the insane squad when breaking a police car in A21 >_<
In general: TFP should definitely add a bunch of those random events to the world which the player could start, would bring more life to the big sandbox. Just drop off the idea with "story"
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Don`t know if this will work for you but ever tried to scale up mountains, lakes and rivers? When there is less space on the map the "cities" shrink to "towns". This was a good way to adjust town sizes in A20. Also you can try to make your own map with Teragon. It needs a bit of getting into the editor, but you will find forums with nice presets to do your own random maps.
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There are some tools in the web which can make your wishes possible. Just google for keyboard rebind tool, there is also one addition from microsoft theirself for windows, i think it is Microsoft Power Tools. With this i rebound the shortcuts in A.D. 1602 for fastening the game. it is hard coded on F4-F6 and now F6 is triggered when hitting space bar when i play the game. Sadly i have to switch the rebind before every playing, but works well for me.
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To be honest, i am very happt with the perk books and i wished hardly if skill books could also be more lucky and do not follow the same straight path every time. The new skill book system is better for progression than the way it works in A20, but a bit more randomness within the tiers would give the skill system back a bit of exciting. It would be nice if players is forced to take a look at the book to find out what he learned at least. Also: It would definitely be nice if 1 or 2 skills would miss out on each tier in every run for a more unique experience.
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The
8 hours ago, Riamus said:It could be interesting but at least for me, I always have way more dukes than I have any need for, so I'm left with the option of getting a ton of dukes I don't need at the cost of looting the POIs and getting resources that I do need. I think I'll always go to the loot rather than trying to get more dukes.
For the mid and early game that would be fine, also higher reward stages with other items could work. But another idea i also got in a post before: Give items rarity tiers, topmost rarity items could be a reward for highest bounty reward or highest rarity items can also be found in T5 loot for example. This highest rarity items should not be able to be found in standard loot or trading offers.
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On 4/21/2023 at 6:24 PM, Vintorez said:
IMO there are more simple, believable ways to achieve the dev's goals;
I am on your side. I also understand why they wanted to stop the jar inflation but there are a lot of ways to do this without breaking the immersion so hard. A neat idea why water collectors are necessary: The catastrophe happened as a result of atomic accident. So water which you find anywhere could give the player radiation debuff so he is
hardly pushed to switch to natural falling down water. Also rainy days could have an impact on water collection... so much potential to raise immersion without disctract fans of the established water system so much. Also: They should have keep old water system (with radiation effect) and limit the stacks as they did now. Everything consumable made of radiated water could have the radiation effect.
Anybody there to make such a modlet? I would pay for it! 😀
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5 hours ago, Euzio said:
On the subject of melee, is it just me or are zombies stumbling forward way too much after getting hit?
I find it an issue because when they stumble forward, its almost pretty much they'd get a guarantee hit on you that you can't avoid since they seem to be able to melee hit you mid-animation as well. Couple that with a melee reach that seems way too long (its like they have spears for arms) and its quite crazy.Yes this is new behaviour i also noticed and they also hit you earlier than their animation. I am not completely happy with it but in this way they avoid to beating the game on high difficulty with only melee weapons, what was no big deal in A20. But it is funny that they OPd the spear while giving zombies that boost, it seems the only legal way to fight zombies in melee now without getting too much damage. Suggest to you: Give pipe guns a try in early game, they are quite useful now.
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On 6/20/2023 at 6:11 AM, Aphrodite said:
My issue is that all of the murky water I get has to be boiled for drinking water. That leaves none for making glue.
Snow can only be used to make Yucca Smoothies now.
If the dew collector is meant to be the primary replacement for having glass jars, then the water filet should be a lootable item. Maybe breaking down a water cooler or drink dispenser could have a chance to yield one. On my SP game, 1 water filer at Trader Reckt's is 2250 dukes. That gets expensive when you need to make multiple dew collectors.
This is expensive, absolutely right, but in my oppinion everybody should divorce from thinking to reach maxed leveled out end game asap.
Progression is really slow by now, i also noted it when looking for cloth bags e.g. I like it very very much how slow it progresses now, but also it is hard to accept after playing so much A20. To follow up this agenda with water filters, i would like to see rarity tiers for all items in the game, and the rarest are only acquire at the trader. At the same time i would hardly wish a new trader mechanic: "I am in search of item x, can you help me trader?" "Yes i can acquire it in 5 days for you, but you have to do me a favor, please do (fill in whatever quest type you like here) for me and we got a deal"
I guess this is how the world would work in a post apocalyptic setting. Imagine of catching a special zombie by rope from a special place and bringing him like in The Walking Dead
Another one: Place explosives on the basement of building XY and blow it up. Or this: Trader XY is ruining everybodys business in this region, he has to disappear, kill him at all costs - he will be in his fort knox and fight you with fireweapons from his castle, for this purpos traders place isn`t safe anymore. After the quest this trader PIO could be replaced by a complete new one. Oh dude, i got so many ideas for cool favors you have to do to your local trader to acquire "special things" from him. Can`t be so hard, can it?
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11 hours ago, boban said:
It isn't an issue at all if you are focusing on looting and questing. In previous alphas you could do that a lot less and just refill jars and boil the water focusing on resource gathering, building, scouting, hunting etc. early game. Now as jar are magically gone it's impossible* - you have to loot, at least until you have big enough stash or/and dew collector.
(* or maybe not impossible, but not fun for me anymore, so I just switched to constantly looting)
100% right. If you don`t follow up you will get real problems i guess. By the way: what meaning has snow have regarding thirst? I did not play snowy biome in A21 so far, does anybody know?
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Well then... i played for nearly 15 hours now the new alpha and have to say, all in all i am very satisfied when comparing to A20. Yes there is still some polishing needed, but it works very well for me, but yes, difficulty raised markably but do not have a big problem with that as previous version was silly easy, you could play with only melee weapons and a bit support by automat turrets and/or explosion on the highest difficulties. The zeds become a real threat again and you have to watch out for your steps. Also the mechanics for fulfill thirst ... are not logical but it`s a better challenge now to fulfill this need as it was too easy to fulfill it before. The new graphic improvements are very well implemented with a few exceptions (e.g.: new fireplace looks neat but not well fitting into the world with its weird underground and clean stone textures. It should reflect the visuals of collectible stones and should have a neutral burned underground). Was sceptic about disappearing loot piles and bird nests but together with the switching visual state of "untouched" and "empty" it really improve the immersion as you can note only by looking around where you have been and where not. Mentioning bird nests: Very good new balance of finding eggs and potatoes helps to fulfill hunger at the very beginning, missing water pushed me to drink more murky water what results in diarrhea, but you can live and play with this state, or in other words: you are can survive without any problem. Murky water also gets some nice value when you are finally able to cook into clear water and to get even more out of it you will think more about making tea out of it, as you won`t find too much of it. Together with vending machine and water collectors water is nicely limited and a worthy item now, no more inflation, thanks TFP! New map generator is not perfect but though more satisfying as before, started near a trader which was located in the wilderness and rest place with some other cabins around. Very very cool, even though next city wasn`t too hard to find, but it required to make some smart logistically thoughts for my first days, i like that very much. Skills: Better than before as there are much more legitime ways of playing, but though there are some things i still do not like very much. I like lockpicking, but with better opening T1=10%, T2=20%, T3=30% i see still much more better ways to invest. What i DOES like: It make sense now to rely on only one stat, get those weapon and supprt skills and you will get a more unique character specialised in on of those trees. For my first try i specialized in agility as the higher difficulty forced me to play more sneaky than before, so i also skilled bow and pistol. I only wear light armors, skilled also higher sneak damage and better general sneaking together with parcour. I will max out these at first, but also invested into better ressource collecting and lockpick T1. Already now i am very hyped to try another attribute tree, like this mechanic very much. Keep on going! Great job TFP!
Forget one critic: Please improve the sounds. Some of them aren`t cool and some of them are just much too loud... OUCH
Whoops a random snake in the grass bite me in my feet 😆
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On 4/15/2023 at 7:57 PM, Crypted said:
They said two more quests are coming to Alpha 21 one of which is the infested quest, But what's the other one?
A list of quests I think It might be and some quest ideas for the future of 7DTD:
- Defend a specific item/POI or protect one of the traders
- Gather a specific resource/Item for the trader
- Give supplies from one trader to another
- Something similar to a clear quest but with just bandits like at a (Bandit Camp) This one would have to wait until bandits get added but I think people will like it.
- Waves upon waves of zombies (defeat them all to complete the quest and earn a big reward, but keep In mind each wave gets harder) just an idea
- A quest that has something to do with the Duke of Navezgane or Noah (when the story and factions get added of course)
- A quest where you explore/check out a new area like a (town, biome, city) they could call it the daring adventurer quest like the perk
- Adding more to the buried supplies quest like more containers for a example (maybe get multiple buried supplies with one of the quests)
- A demolition quest of some sort
- Adding more to the (Opening trade routes)
I hope TFP add at least one of these quests In, that would be really nice.
Really cool ideas indeed. Hope your wishes come true
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20 hours ago, Riamus said:
By that point, it's really a good time to think about a new game than trying to find ways to make use of the stuff that isn't being used, though.
It wouldn`t be a time to think about that if the game forces you to just keep collecting some more things in late game to survive. I also like to start a new game because it is just boring to see rising a steel base only made with one tool. This as senseless as my idea to lock mods into items of course. We both start a new game because we know that there is no more to do in the late game and you. In a horde survival game i expect mechanics which force me anytime to think about next source of getting stuff to survive. So infinite durability of food for example makes end game also boring. Doesn`t matter how experienced i am in late game, my player character should never be able to repair everything in the game into perfect state. This game definitely need more consumption, also on vehicles. At the same time it should give you more options to be mobile, not only by trying to fix cars standing around, but also using skateboards or roller skates instead of bicycle. The immersion would win a lot by always finding new ways to survive. There are a lot of options right now, but transience should be the core of the game to let you having fun in only one game for a very very long time. But yes i can understand too if players disagree as they just want to get in a state of halfgods, it`s fun too, but then... you stop playing because it gets boring.
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11 hours ago, sillls said:
Where are all the pots? I don't see them anywhere. I can find food, mostly raw food and murky water. But no pots. With water filters at 1500 Dukes, it kind of makes clean water out of reach.
I keep searching kitchens but not one pot.
Uhm... same here. I am confused: Did they remove pots from the game? I thought you can still cook murky water into clear water? This is also no more possible?
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Rethink Triggers for Zombie Spawns
in Pimp Dreams
Posted
Hm, i don`t think you`re right. When you don`t trigger any scripts from the makers you can kill hordes with stealth without any problems. I play difficulty 7/8 and when i am in downtown with my medium bow on T5 in stealth on any roof i can shoot an insane amount of zeds without getting harmed in any way 😀 But yes, this isn`t too unrealistic indeed according to many zombie films and stories. Therefore i would wish the zombies in 7d would work a bit different. I played with ferral sense once, it`s fun but so intense that you aren`t doing anything else but killing zombies all the time and stealth gets completely worthless. If there would be a bar to adjust the ferral sense intensity, this would be great