More trader nerfs in B238

[Slingblade2040]

Yet more nerfs on the trader. He now pays less for goods and all tiers of better barter have been nerfed by 5% on all tiers.

 

So now buying things will take much longer? Really hope they adjusted what quests give as rewards to make up for these nerfs and they fixed the crazy distance on tier 1 quests. Because I see no point in running on foot 1.5km or more for a quest that barely gives 1k exp and 400 dukes.

[LuckyStar]

Yet more nerfs on the trader. He now pays less for goods and all tiers of better barter have been nerfed by 5% on all tiers.

 

So now buying things will take much longer? Really hope they adjusted what quests give as rewards to make up for these nerfs and they fixed the crazy distance on tier 1 quests. Because I see no point in running on foot 1.5km or more for a quest that barely gives 1k exp and 400 dukes.

 

Are you having trouble making money?

 

I see a lot of posts asking for Trader nerfs.

Have to admit, this is the first time seeing someone wanting them to pay more for items.

[Gr.o.m.]

Combined with the massive loss of stamina, you are forced to spend your 400 dukes on food.

Atm you better spend your time in looting kitchens and food stores and not on quests.

[Slingblade2040]

Are you having trouble making money?

 

I see a lot of posts asking for Trader nerfs.

Have to admit, this is the first time seeing someone wanting them to pay more for items.

 

Considering the crazy costs of some of the items and how little dukes can be gotten now I have only been buying food or resources. 5k for a quality 3 mining helm is a bit insane. Not counting the crazy costs of some of the items with mods in them. I saw a quality 5 steel shovel with 2 mods in it for 11k dukes. Since most things sell for almost nothing now I kinda gave up buying gear from the trader and have stuck with resources and food. Guess the trader game is slowly being phased out so that playstyle is now almost dead.

[Skeeter63082]

Nah, at this point they might as well take the traders out of the game. If you can't get decent prices for what you loot without having to be in an MP game and sell to ther players, then what is the point? Oh wait, they nerfed selling to other players by imposing a max price limit for items too. WTF is going on with TFP? Is the trader economy what is breaking the game for everyone? I would have thought it was other important things like trying to balance the zombie AI to be somewhere between the extremes of a straight line wrecking crew and structural engineers with thermal cameras. I know this is an experimental, but damn, we get one update that seems to be an improvement and then one that is mostly trash. Consistency folks!

[LuckyStar]

Considering the crazy costs of some of the items and how little dukes can be gotten now I have only been buying food or resources. 5k for a quality 3 mining helm is a bit insane. Not counting the crazy costs of some of the items with mods in them. I saw a quality 5 steel shovel with 2 mods in it for 11k dukes. Since most things sell for almost nothing now I kinda gave up buying gear from the trader and have stuck with resources and food. Guess the trader game is slowly being phased out so that playstyle is now almost dead.

 

I don't think it's being phased out.

It sounds to me like they are trying to balance it.... and perhaps went a bit too far.

 

That's pretty much been the theme of A17 though hasn't it?

The pendulum swinging this way and that.

 

Hopefully they'll end up in the middle with a Trader system that people are happy with.

[Kattla]

I suspect they are trying to make questing the only reasonable way to earn dukes.

 

And no, not a pendulum. A pendulum swings back and forth, the balancing in this

experimental is like a sinking ship. It only goes one way, down.

[Kattla]

I don't think it's being phased out.

It sounds to me like they are trying to balance it.... and perhaps went a bit too far.

 

That's pretty much been the theme of A17 though hasn't it?

The pendulum swinging this way and that.

 

Hopefully they'll end up in the middle with a Trader system that people are happy with.

 

A bit? more like four bytes. 1x9mm round cost 22 dukes, and you can't even sell them 1 now.

I'll have to agree with someone else in this thread, using the trader is a dead playstyle.

[JaxTeller718]

A bit? more like four bytes. 1x9mm round cost 22 dukes, and you can't even sell them 1 now.

I'll have to agree with someone else in this thread, using the trader is a dead playstyle.

 

Good. Next step removal!

[Kage848]

Let's face is, quests are a joke. I don;t know why people would waste there time on them, unless they are really close.

 

Trader nerf sucks. Early game forget about buying anything but food at this point. I think the higher end stuff is more for mid to late game though. Don't think they want you buying that awesome pick with 3 mods in it on day 3. I think the trader nerf should be addressed with a massive duke buff on quests. They also need a really MASSIVE xp buff.

[JaxTeller718]

Let's face is, quests are a joke. I don;t know why people would waste there time on them, unless they are really close.

 

Trader nerf sucks. Early game forget about buying anything but food at this point. I think the higher end stuff is more for mid to late game though. Don't think they want you buying that awesome pick with 3 mods in it on day 3. I think the trader nerf should be addressed with a massive duke buff on quests. They also need a really MASSIVE xp buff.

 

You know I gotta keep up my hate for those bastids. I will say I agree, quests are a bit of a joke. For my game I doubled all XP they give and added a Skill Point as a reward for completing them

[Kattla]

Good. Next step removal!

 

yup. Only thing left is to randomize AI, and we are pretty much back to A13, just

with distant terrain , a somewhat better graphic and a minibike with OP idle sound (motorbike).

[Bhaaltazar]

I would say TFP lack the feel for a right balance. This experimentals balances went from one extreme to the other - either with stamina, now traders... I would go more for a middle ground and than make smaller adjustments after getting back some feedback.

 

Also I think the quantity of guns found should be reduced and prices raised. I mean its nonsense looting a store and hauling out like 20 guns.

I think you should be finding more mods and alike not the weapons itself ( I do miss gun parts now ). And crafting a gun shouldnt be a thing - totally unrealistic ( ok I know its a game as is so many other things but still ), maintaining,making improvements and repairing yes .

 

But also at the end of the day who is replenishing the vending machines? I would prefer them only as a lootable container and let the trader sell new food daily or on restocks.

 

Whole dukes system should be given some thought and rework IMO. I would still look up to Fallout series kind of trading system or something similar.

[Kalarro]

 

Also I think the quantity of guns found should be reduced and prices raised.

 

I agree. They were right thinking selling guns was granting too much money. But they fixed it the wrong way IMO. I want to be happy to find a gun. Nerf the amount we find, not the value. First we will be happier to find guns to use. Later we will be happy to find guns to sell.

[FranticDan]

Good. Next step removal!

 

Agreed, what's a trader doing in a zombie apocalypse anyway? When I started playing on console, there was no trader, everything was either looted or crafted. And you could smelt the tokens for brass.

Only thing I agree with keeping is the vending machines (that take only old cash and not casino tokens) but they should NEVER restock!

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

You know I gotta keep up my hate for those bastids. I will say I agree, quests are a bit of a joke. For my game I doubled all XP they give and added a Skill Point as a reward for completing them

 

I think the quests you get from the notes you find should reward you with a perk point, some of those can be challenging, for example, go to a specific location on the map to trigger a dozen football zombies to swarm you!

[Doctor3D]

Let's face is, quests are a joke. I don;t know why people would waste there time on them, unless they are really close.

 

Trader nerf sucks. Early game forget about buying anything but food at this point. I think the higher end stuff is more for mid to late game though. Don't think they want you buying that awesome pick with 3 mods in it on day 3. I think the trader nerf should be addressed with a massive duke buff on quests. They also need a really MASSIVE xp buff.

 

On the previous build I used the trader and quests exclusively to build the base. I built a character and maxed out his combat and stealth and didn't do any INT except for getting the bike. This allowed him to be very powerful and could practically rampage through the POIs, but couldn't build much of anything so I had to rely on loot exclusively for everything.

 

Yeah you don't get much from the actual reward - but the quest POIs respawn all their goodies each time you do them and you just keep selling everything you loot that you don't need. I went through soo many working stiff boxes doing all the quests that I had all my iron tools from them alone. I never had a need to make ammo (secret stash boxes all day long) - I kept an extremely healthy supply just from the Quest POIS and I did some supplementation with pocket change to go with it.

 

I then continually kept getting rebar from working stiff boxes- and i'd just go buy buckets of concrete and any additional rebar he had from the trader and wallah I had a base without even having to have a forge or cement mixer.

 

You start to really really stack up on dukes - buying a modded purple pickaxe was virtually pocket change.

 

Now - I don't know how the current changes would affect that - but they were anything but useless before. I built an entire character and playthrough around their strengths to offset my character's weakness and it worked very well.

 

Another point is that I have played most of A17 in Navezgane since RWG hasn't been too great. This does come with the benefit of Trader Rekt - (burnt biome trader) most of his trade quests are close to him so you can do multiple ones per 60 minute day. As you progress and get the bicycle (should be first priority besides some basic starter combat perks to help you get through the starter T1 quests) you can then go over to Joel (forest biome) and start doing those as well. Later head up to snow and try those out...I never got to Jenn before the patch...

 

If I were doing a more pure INT build and focused more as a builder - the trader wouldn't be as useful for actual building materials - possibly as supplementation but it would take longer and be less efficient. A builder could stand to use the trader though for ammo until he can get the perk to make it himself.

 

The sheer amount of loot containers you go through by doing those quests over and over is staggering. There are so many loot stashes and ammo bags - I can't even see most people even needing to craft ammo. I always had a net surplus of ammo at the end of every game day. My supply always went up and never down. I always bought ever single round the trader had as well since I had so much of it to blow.

[Royal Deluxe]

Stay cool, a full crate of coins on Day 21 was maybe a bit too much.

 

We will see how it looks in B238

[Skeeter63082]

This is so easy to solve. I don't know why they are making band-aid fixes when all they have to do is adjust the weight of an items chance of appearing in the trader on any given reset against either the current day it resets, or the player's gamestage upon reset. The main downside to utilizing gamestage for this though would be a newbie joining your party and being there upon reset would nerf your total computed gamestage, so perhaps the day would be more relevant. For instance, a Q6 AK-47 is far more likely to appear in the trader on day 31 than it is on day 1. We have to take into consideration that the very existence of traders is a bit of a simulation of there being other survivors out there, though unseen to us, and they would be trading higher value stuff later on vs. right off the bat. This would make those random and rare high quality or advanced tech finds at the trader much more exciting early on.

 

The second step would be to do a reduction in the number of guns we find. At least a 75% reduction would be needed to make finding a gun actually feel like an accomplishment because right now by day 7, you can honestly just throw the guns at the blood horde and probably have plenty left over at daybreak. The second part of that equation would be to increase the value of the guns dramatically. Make finding one create a decision a player has to make: "Do I want to sell this gun that could help me survive for the Dukes to buy that awesome item I saw on the trader, or do I keep it and use it because I only have a wooden bow otherwise?" This creates a feeling of variable playstyle because someone who is more like to use bows over guns won't have much problem making that decision if there is a compound bow at the trader to buy, whereas someone who prefers firearms will have to go with their instinct either way.

 

The next step would be to normalize the prices of materials to be more consistent with their actual usefulness. Guns are generally going to be worth more than mods, which would generally be worth more than tools, which would generally be worth more than forged iron/steel, which would be generally worth more than wood and scrap iron. This system is already in place, but there are some inconsistencies that throw the whole pricing system out of whack.

 

Finally, make the quests actually worth doing. Put potential rewards in there that will entice people to do them for the chance to get the more rare items in the game, for instance certain mods, maybe crafting stations early on, higher quality weapons than you would typically find at your level, good armor pieces i.e. steel and military, power tools, and maybe even vehicle parts. Honestly, anything better than the current typical selection would be an improvement and then they could just balance from there.

 

Once all that is said and done, the economy of a game should be stable, people haven't twinked the hell out at level 20, the game stays challenging until later meta, and your player base generally has a more fun experience finding and trading for the items they need or want.

[Evorith]

Is it my imagination or do zombies path different atm. Had a few run into walls and get caught up of stuff more than any other of the A17 builds so far?

[Kage848]

You know I gotta keep up my hate for those bastids. I will say I agree, quests are a bit of a joke. For my game I doubled all XP they give and added a Skill Point as a reward for completing them

 

Rofl. I have always said make your traders killable and then kill un all. Catharidic lol

[Kalarro]

You know I gotta keep up my hate for those bastids. I will say I agree, quests are a bit of a joke. For my game I doubled all XP they give and added a Skill Point as a reward for completing them

 

Interesting. Could you tell me how to add a skippoint as a reward?

 

would adding this be enough?

<reward type="SkillPoints" value="1"/>

[Ghostlight]

Let's face is, quests are a joke. I don;t know why people would waste there time on them, unless they are really close.

.

 

1) Put 3 points in Daring Adventurer.

2) Spend a day or two doing the quickest easiest trader quests.

3) Complain that you do not own enough items to hold the literally dozens of mods you now have.

 

Traders are indeed useless now as far as buying and selling stuff goes, but their quests are my main source of mods.

[Kage848]

1) Put 3 points in Daring Adventurer.

2) Spend a day or two doing the quickest easiest trader quests.

3) Complain that you do not own enough items to hold the literally dozens of mods you now have.

 

Traders are indeed useless now as far as buying and selling stuff goes, but their quests are my main source of mods.

 

The problem is after the first one they are all like 1-2 km away, and most of the time much farther. Also I need food so much more now. Plus running that much in 2 days sounds awful. I'll do more of then once I have a bike.

[Ghostlight]

Oh God, absolutely. Do not even think of doing traders without a vehicle, they are not cost-effective at all. I would also suggest that they are not worth it unless you have DA 3. If it wasn't for the mods, I would never touch traders quests, ever. They are pointless and unrewarding. And in general you will not get the mods without DA 3.

[Perramas]

Good. Next step removal!

 

Agree 100%. Since Traders were added I mod them out of every single alpha. They make all the rest of the game a joke. Resource gathering, crafting, hunting for food all become far too easy with traders in the game. They remove a big part of the survival and crafting aspect from the game.