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Odetta

Food Spoilage and Its Effect on Game Play A17 and Beyond

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I wouldn't call this situation a dictatorship. I would call it a job where there is a boss.

 

A Boss is a double SOB spelt backwards. Some jobs have team leaders or supervisors that don't run and dictate things without consulting their team.

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What about the lore behind sham? If we have food spoilage then the sham sandwhiches will go away, and without out that what will players use as currency on their servers?

 

I don't know about that.

 

They could have similarities to Twinkies.... which apparently can survive the apocalypse and then some.

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I don't mind spoilage as long as later in the game there are ways to mitigate spoilage. Canning, pickling, curing, refrigeration etc...

 

- P

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What about the lore behind sham? If we have food spoilage then the sham sandwhiches will go away, and without out that what will players use as currency on their servers?

 

Sham sammies are immortal, they are the duct tape of the world. There's a misconception: it's not food poisoning you get after eating too many -it's the sammies purging the useless other foods out of your system. They are immune to decay and radiation. The ingredients, when prepared in the exact methods of orders Shamway's scientific research discovered, give them these properties.

 

this statement is backed by Shamway, however are in no liability if you die when consuming too many sammies

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I don't mind spoilage as long as later in the game there are ways to mitigate spoilage. Canning, pickling, curing, refrigeration etc...

 

- P

 

Agree. Farming became very tedious this patch as well.

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If you implement features that are challenging without the proper methods to deal with them, they become chores and "grindy".

 

My example would be:

* They gave us traps but zombies zig-zag to purposely miss them... then the AI is a good feature but you've actually taken away the main method to "deal" with it.

* You gave us concrete, but zombies get such a high block damage bonus, materials used are irrelevant.

 

If you were to add spoilage, I would be ok, as electricity is already established and it isn't that hard to add a "working" fridge connected to your generator... But, you NEED to add wrapping paper, salt and drying racks to deal with the early game where there will be NO electricity for a while. (Even longer if you go the fighter route)

 

TL;DR: If you're gonna add a feature like spoilage, add the methods to deal with it (early, mid and late game) if not, it will feel like another "chore" we as players have to deal with.

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If you implement features that are challenging without the proper methods to deal with them, they become chores and "grindy".

 

My example would be:

* They gave us traps but zombies zig-zag to purposely miss them... then the AI is a good feature but you've actually taken away the main method to "deal" with it.

* You gave us concrete, but zombies get such a high block damage bonus, materials used are irrelevant.

 

If you were to add spoilage, I would be ok, as electricity is already established and it isn't that hard to add a "working" fridge connected to your generator... But, you NEED to add wrapping paper, salt and drying racks to deal with the early game where there will be NO electricity for a while. (Even longer if you go the fighter route)

 

TL;DR: If you're gonna add a feature like spoilage, add the methods to deal with it (early, mid and late game) if not, it will feel like another "chore" we as players have to deal with.

 

This pretty much, all of our "Buffs" are circumvented.

 

Granted I can design some pretty damn good traps that can't be zig zagged around.

 

I to this day still think the zig zagging is ridiculous and needs to go away, and this is coming from someone who lands head shots very consistently despite that. What really baffled me was last patch where I was chasing the damn zombies and they were walking around hitting the damn wall 180 from me. lol

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Agree. Farming became very tedious this patch as well.

 

Tedious? There's LESS tedium with no longer needing to replant every harvest. Now it's plant and forget and every time you get another seed expand with another plant that will never ever need to be replanted.

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If you implement features that are challenging without the proper methods to deal with them, they become chores and "grindy".

 

My example would be:

* They gave us traps but zombies zig-zag to purposely miss them... then the AI is a good feature but you've actually taken away the main method to "deal" with it.

* You gave us concrete, but zombies get such a high block damage bonus, materials used are irrelevant.

 

If you were to add spoilage, I would be ok, as electricity is already established and it isn't that hard to add a "working" fridge connected to your generator... But, you NEED to add wrapping paper, salt and drying racks to deal with the early game where there will be NO electricity for a while. (Even longer if you go the fighter route)

 

TL;DR: If you're gonna add a feature like spoilage, add the methods to deal with it (early, mid and late game) if not, it will feel like another "chore" we as players have to deal with.

 

Hmm.... the Drying racks sound interesting.

 

"The Forest" has them and it's a decent system.

 

Yeah I'd be on board for that.

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Agree. Farming became very tedious this patch as well.

 

Wait, what? It became way less tedious in this Alpha. Only thing I'd change is the punch to collect and have it reverted back to "press E". There is already a modlet that does this though so no biggie.

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Hmm.... the Drying racks sound interesting.

 

"The Forest" has them and it's a decent system.

 

Yeah I'd be on board for that.

 

Same here. Green Hell has a few different cooking methods as well and they do add to the game.

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Same here. Green Hell has a few different cooking methods as well and they do add to the game.

 

I've never played it.

 

What are these methods?

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There are drying racks, smoking racks, grilling racks, as well as cooking on the fire directly or in a pot / coconut. The cooking experience can be fun too, because you add ingredients into your pot one at a time and depending on what you add changes the nutritional value.

 

The whole food thing in that game is more complex, but it isn't a chore. You can make fish traps, snare traps, fishing poles and spears.

 

The same goes for hydration. Sure you have to boil water, but you can also build water collectors, use charcoal from your fires to make water filtration.

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There are drying racks, smoking racks, grilling racks, as well as cooking on the fire directly or in a pot / coconut. The cooking experience can be fun too, because you add ingredients into your pot one at a time and depending on what you add changes the nutritional value.

 

The whole food thing in that game is more complex, but it isn't a chore. You can make fish traps, snare traps, fishing poles and spears.

 

The same goes for hydration. Sure you have to boil water, but you can also build water collectors, use charcoal from your fires to make water filtration.

 

Think some of that could work in a voxel game like 7DTD?

 

It sounds kinda fun.

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Think some of that could work in a voxel game like 7DTD?

 

It sounds kinda fun.

 

Sure, I don't see voxels being any hinderance, but for it to look like how these games do it, I don't think fits with the current style of the game. For example, you might place a piece a meat on a smoker and actually see a piece of meat there. In this game, they tend to do everything hidden in a GUI with little icons... which would work just fine, although always a missed opportunity to do something with more style. I am afraid though, that if TFP doesn't start getting into more of that and break away from these dull interfaces, 7D2D will fall behind in the survival genre.

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... In this game, they tend to do everything hidden in a GUI with little icons... which would work just fine, although always a missed opportunity to do something with more style. I am afraid though, that if TFP doesn't start getting into more of that and break away from these dull interfaces, 7D2D will fall behind in the survival genre.

 

Always a tough one with voxel games though isn't it.

 

So many resources go into just keeping track of and rendering a voxel world.

There's got to be some things that get sacrificed.

 

Hopefully with the engine update, our tech getting better since A1 and some tweaks to the game itself, we'll see more of what you're talking about.

 

For now I'd bet they make things as simple as possible simply for performance.

You're right though, can't do too much of that or it looks a bit mediocre.

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My chief concern is think about 1,000 active timers all ticking down across the game world for every discrete item that can spoil. What in the heck will that do to performance? For clients? For the server?

 

So food spoiling as a mechanic serves a similar function to the 7 day hordes -- it's a ticking clock that keeps the player moving.

 

Do we need both in 7 Days? Is the ticking clock of the 7th Day Horde not enough? Do we need more ticking clocks on every stack of food?

 

I dunno. I'm fairly dubious.

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My chief concern is think about 1,000 active timers all ticking down across the game world for every discrete item that can spoil. What in the heck will that do to performance? For clients? For the server?

 

So food spoiling as a mechanic serves a similar function to the 7 day hordes -- it's a ticking clock that keeps the player moving.

 

Do we need both in 7 Days? Is the ticking clock of the 7th Day Horde not enough? Do we need more ticking clocks on every stack of food?

 

I dunno. I'm fairly dubious.

 

Someone already posted a perfect solution to that. The items just hold a variable that stores their creation time, then the spoilage is calculated only when the item is looked at (while your inventory is open, when a chest is open, etc.)

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Always a tough one with voxel games though isn't it.

 

So many resources go into just keeping track of and rendering a voxel world.

There's got to be some things that get sacrificed.

 

Hopefully with the engine update, our tech getting better since A1 and some tweaks to the game itself, we'll see more of what you're talking about.

 

For now I'd bet they make things as simple as possible simply for performance.

You're right though, can't do too much of that or it looks a bit mediocre.

 

I know what you are saying, but I really don't believe the underlying issue is just voxels. The problem is probably Unity itself. Forever, they will be trying to keep up with the latest engine to get the most out of it... an engine that is not meant to serve voxel games at an optimal level, but meant to serve a very broad spectrum of games. Who knows what kind of extra overhead comes with that bulk. I hope that behind the scenes, they at least try to build their own eventually. If the team isn't large enough yet, I understand, but it needs to outgrow it at some point. I'm afraid that if so much time is spent trying to keep this game up to its expectations while under limitations outside of their control, something else is going to come along and surpass it before it hits Beta.

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1) bottled water should not go bad for a VERY long time. (as in years, if at all) it's water.

2) fresh, non-cooked foods should eventually go bad. THIS is gonna be the nasty part trying to balance.

3) Cooked foods, go bad slower, some faster than others. Salted/smoked meats do last a long, long time.

4) Canned goods last years, so in game, don't go bad.

 

Open cans of water will evaporate/go bad yes, they are open. Jars being sealed will not.

 

Soups, stews, could be canned. Lose some benefits/buff amounts, but they do not go bad. (and you then NEED the cans again)

Meat: boiled last a while. Smoked/salted even longer. (how long does beef jerky last btw? Salted fish? (if we ever get fish)

Veggies: ahh. Fresh ones, not long. Cook the silly things..except..

Corn: dried corn/cornmeal last very very long.

Eggs: hard enough to find as it is, and they do last weeks. tricky one.

 

Bacon and eggs are a staple, so early on, we're gonna be using them fairly fast.

 

Once you get to farming, then it's stews which can be canned, thus removing the spoilage. Sure, keep some fresh for extra buff, but canned goods are your "doesn't spoil, I won't starve or get sick" stuff.

 

So yes, it would add incentive to use it or lose it, as long as there IS a way to use it and not lose it, short of eating it.

 

This isn't zombiefarmville after all. :)

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