New cost of the attributes (spoiler!!!)

[SittingDuck]

Hi folks,

So this build we don´t have a level cap but attributes cost more with each level.

1-3 cost: 1

4-6 cost: 2

7 cost: 3

8 cost: 4

9 cost: 5

0 cost: 6

 

I think it gets too expensiv in the high levels.

[PoppaTot]

We'll all have to play it and give balancing feedback to see if anything needs to be changed.

[willcheat]

26 skill points for a lvl 10 attribute is a bit much, even off the bat. Dropped the multiplier to 1.167 in my game, down from 1.2. That gives 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 4 4, which is a total of 20 skill points for a maxed out attribute.

[SittingDuck]

of course we will have to test it.

@ Willcheat level 1 attributes come for free. ^^19 Points with your version.

 

Are all Attributes at the same strenght? perhaps some should cost more and some should be cheaper?

Int. for example is nearly worthless at level 9 and 10 because you can get +2 Int with coffee and nerd glasses... and seriously for 11 skillpoints i would never buy that. perhaps there should be no int. buffs?

[SittingDuck]

How many skillpoints do you get? 1 each level, right?

I just wondered, a soft level cap would be higher cost for higher Skills/attributes

something like 1-3 1 skillpoint 4-6 2 skillpoints 7-9 3 Skillpoints

and the same with level 1-30 1 Skillpoint, 31-60 2 Skillpoints 61-90 3 Skillpoints/level

[Davy Crockett]

I've only played for less than an hour but just looking at the menu I can see that this new system means you will again have to save up a lot of points for a single level of a perk/attribute.

Example: You want steel tools. That's Hammer & Forge level 3, which requires 8 Intellect. Assuming you already have Intellect at 7 and Hammer & Forge at 2, it'll take you 4 points to level Int to 8 and 1 more for the actual perk, so you'll have to gain 5 levels without spending any points.

[Limdood]

It means MP can specialize better than ever before, and a dedicated intelligence and a dedicated strength (gatherer) person will be invaluable for any MP team. Its effect on MP will be fantastic, and let people play specialized roles better than ever before, while still making low level dipping into other stuff easy and relatively painless.

 

It's effect on SP will be pretty severe. You won't be FORCED into a jack-of-all trades style, but you'll be giving up some SERIOUS QoL perks (like better loot, running/jumping, better vehicles/tools, carrying capacity, efficient self-healing, efficient gathering, and more) if you want to specialize. The ALMOST-required jack-of-all-trades means the top levels of ANY perk will be out of reach until the absolute extreme levels.

 

It's a concerning trend towards ignoring, or at least discounting SP concerns in favor of MP...similar to how Gazz's go-to answer for complaints about block damage and hordes tearing thru bases was to comment on how he watched youtube TEAMS of players successfully defending on top difficulty levels...which really had no bearing on the SP complaints that were being made.

 

I'll give it a shot on SP unmodified (probably going to push intellect to 1-shy of motorcycle and try to grab a magazine to craft one, and do trader runs over and over for mods and steel bars, while grabbing a mix of mid level strength and agility, and low level perception and endurance stats/perks)....but I -expect- to personally adjust the numbers If TFP doesn't (i could be wrong, and this might be a comfortable level, we'll see)

[willcheat]

of course we will have to test it.

@ Willcheat level 1 attributes come for free. ^^19 Points with your version.

 

skill point cost is 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 4 4

 

1 + 1 + 1 = 3

 

2 + 2 + 2 = 6

 

3 + 4 + 4 = 11

 

3 + 6 + 11 = 20

 

Only got 9 numbers there, the 1st attribute level isn't being counted.

 

Edit : And yeah, there's no way to balance a game for SP and MP with the same ruleset. Doubt TFP will make 2 versions of the same game, so mods will be the solution here. Same for PVP I believe

[Randomdude]

At this point, with the new system, it's obvious SP would need some kind of way to "catch up".

 

Skill Books +1 skill point should fix the problem. The balancing on how you find them would be the tricky part. Maybe unlock as loot when over a threshold of lucky looter (75+)?

 

VAL Mod did this and gave a very good reason to go out and loot/kill zombies at late/very late game.

[Krougal]

Completely sucks for SP, and to be perfectly honest I don't particularly care for it for MP either.

Glad it's easily modded.

[Aerial]

Given how overpowered many of the perks are (and assuming they don't change dramatically), what level in each of the attributes is really needed for easy/good/desirable gameplay?

 

Note: the answer to this question is an opinion so it will differ for everyone, but I'm curious what people's responses will be. Except for some specific perk unlocks, I doubt anyone needs attributes above 5 or 6 to make most aspects of the game pretty easy, but maybe I've missed something. I'd be curious what others think.

[Krougal]

Given how overpowered many of the perks are (and assuming they don't change dramatically), what level in each of the attributes is really needed for easy/good/desirable gameplay?

 

Note: the answer to this question is an opinion so it will differ for everyone, but I'm curious what people's responses will be. Except for some specific perk unlocks, I doubt anyone needs attributes above 5 or 6 to make most aspects of the game pretty easy, but maybe I've missed something. I'd be curious what others think.

 

Pretty much all attributes are useful to everyone to a degree. They should be cheap. For example, as a ranged player strength is mostly useless since I'm only taking 2-3 perks in it, but it didn't bother me before since it cost the same as anything else, and because of the level gating it encouraged spreading points out anyway. Also being that I still melee a bit the dmg boost isn't useless. Now it's going to suck to have to sink points into attributes, forget about QOL perks.

 

Much as I hate to say it, it would be better to have the perks get more expensive at higher levels and the attributes remain as 1 pointers, and exactly for the reason you pointed out - they are OP at high level. I still think we should get more points to spend then.

[9nines]

This is why I spend the first couple days clearing POIs, I find the trader and buy the best melee I can then rush leveling to get a bike which saves me points from dumping em into running.Unless it has changed, I havent really needed the better looter perk as my loot is enough for me to make enough dukes for anything I really want from the 3 traders I have found or I just make it myself.Im currently updating now but it just means more zombie farming.Last night in about 5 hrs I had a lv6 machete for 15k from trader and after a few safes had all the mods to get it up to around 31 dmg a swing so was super leveling easy.(god the flaming mod is annoying lol) ps I hope to see some more differences in the tempered vs serated blades for machete as once your able to produce steel you just go for the bleed extra. I went on a test world and maxed out a full machete/light armor build.....was the greatest thing ever lol zombies dropping dead from bleed or body parts just blowing off and almost unlimited stam

[Kalarro]

a17 is turning more and more into an anti builder and anti SP game. Never thought Id be so unhappy about an update. Even reading the changes before the realease everything sounded awesome. And now they are turning the best survival+crafting game into a typical MP combat game.

[manni44]

a17 is turning more and more into an anti builder and anti SP game. Never thought Id be so unhappy about an update. Even reading the changes before the realease everything sounded awesome. And now they are turning the best survival+crafting game into a typical MP combat game.

 

thats a point.

 

many of us play this game because its diffrent to all others out there... so pls dont trun it into something that already exists out there

[Slingblade2040]

This is why I spend the first couple days clearing POIs, I find the trader and buy the best melee I can then rush leveling to get a bike which saves me points from dumping em into running.Unless it has changed, I havent really needed the better looter perk as my loot is enough for me to make enough dukes for anything I really want from the 3 traders I have found or I just make it myself.Im currently updating now but it just means more zombie farming.Last night in about 5 hrs I had a lv6 machete for 15k from trader and after a few safes had all the mods to get it up to around 31 dmg a swing so was super leveling easy.(god the flaming mod is annoying lol) ps I hope to see some more differences in the tempered vs serated blades for machete as once your able to produce steel you just go for the bleed extra. I went on a test world and maxed out a full machete/light armor build.....was the greatest thing ever lol zombies dropping dead from bleed or body parts just blowing off and almost unlimited stam

 

Did you mod the game? What difficulty and build were you on because 15k in dukes with the previous build seems unlikely in 5 hours. Since most prices were nerfed to hell. If you didn't mod and were on the previous build what exactly were you selling that got you 15k in a few hours?

[PoppaTot]

Did you mod the game? What difficulty and build were you on because 15k in dukes with the previous build seems unlikely in 5 hours. Since most prices were nerfed to hell. If you didn't mod and were on the previous build what exactly were you selling that got you 15k in a few hours?

 

I'm guessing: F1-DM-CM=Dukes for days lmao

[lazyknob]

Removing level gates and switching to higher points to perk is in the right direction. My opinion of course.

 

All it needs is some balancing of perk costs. You have to remember that the highest perk effects are now available to you much sooner than before, so that's a mitigating factor in your gameplay vs costs.

[Scyris]

Honestly I prefer the old level gating system to this.

[theanomaly]

Honestly I prefer the old level gating system to this.

 

I do as well. Maybe -5 levels on a bunch of the gates and it would have been perfect.

 

Too bad a bunch of participation trophy kids whined that they weren't able to have a day 1 forge and steel everything by first horde, so this is what we get. Thanks guys.

[lazyknob]

With the level gated system, perks had an arbitrary obstacle. The upside is you got to put perks in many places, but the downside is... because of the gating, it takes a while to get enough points in to feel the full effects of the perk.

 

Some of us would focus on the lower budget of having more perks at the cost of lower/slower impact vs the newer system where you can specialize and get the full benefits of how you choose to play your character much sooner.

 

Obviously I'm partial to the newer system, but I do agree to a limited degree it's a little too pricey for solo players. Either keep current perk costs and give bonus points every 10 levels (or so) or just reduce costs by a 'bit', would be my suggestion.

[FranticDan]

I honestly prefer the level gating, I level up rather quickly anyway so I usually have a forge on the day of the first horde night and I'm usually nearly level 30 by the end of the first horde night. Mind you I hunt zombies down!

 

In saying that, I believe the cost for attributes should be lowered slightly, I think the first 3 levels (2-4) should cost 1 each, then levels 5-6 cost 2 each, 7-8 cost 3 each and finally 9-10 cost 4 each, for a grand total of 21

[LuckyStar]

I like the new system a lot!

 

I would, however, like to see a way in which a SP can max out all stats.

 

Single player only quests or something?

I don't care what it is, I'll grind it! I want those points!

[Royal Deluxe]

Did you mod the game? What difficulty and build were you on because 15k in dukes with the previous build seems unlikely in 5 hours. Since most prices were nerfed to hell. If you didn't mod and were on the previous build what exactly were you selling that got you 15k in a few hours?

 

I guess all you need is a wrench.

 

Most important is a nice startposition on a good map

But for this here i guess without 200% loot it wouldnt work (60 min days)

[Noompsie]

Possibly a crafting recipe for a mindwipe potion which could be eaten to give all points back for a respec. That would mean that points we use early game could be respeced later game.