SP is suffering and mods seem to be the answer

[Arkheias]

Well at least we have the option to Mod.

 

I'm grateful for that.

 

Just remember, it's that kind of thinking that eventually led to Fallout 76.

[Kage848]

Well yeah that's what I mean. If you want to go to a further away poi area to loot and kill, may as well pick the quest up. If you plan on progressing purely through quests then yeah that's going to suck. I always build starter bases near the trader anyway to stash farm/have a place to cook and rest/etc. Plus the benefit of getting an iron or steel tool is amazing early on. But no im not going to run 2km away just to do a quest and ignore the rest of the buildings nearby and haul straight back to the trader.

 

Never meant iron tools are useless. Meant the quests are. I get quest rewards all the time that dont offer iron tools.

 

And yea if the quest is close I do them. But they quickly become 2km away. There are tons of pois way closer than that.

 

Quests went from my favorite thing in alpha 17 to something I dont even bother with now. Wonderful "balance" there huh?

 

This is why we cant have nice things lol

[lord_ahriman]

I don't really get why a few people have to insist on trying to ruin the game for so many others. If you want to specialize, fine. Do that. All you have to do is not spend points outside of whatever "class" you're roleplaying as. It's that simple, no mods required.

 

The rest of us, however, now have to mod the game to max out our stats. Why do we have to be punished just to appease the people who don't have enough self-control to properly roleplay as a specialized class on their own?

 

That's why I think a possible solution is "hidden lvl gate", so each perk is tied to specific lvl: if a player meet requirement, perk only cost 1 skill point; otherwise you pay the price. Still not the best solution because on mp you can get a lot more xp, but at least sp does not have to be punished by this new system (increasing cost).

[Blazer777]

i agree with you kage werent some of your quests up to 6kns away and the closest was something like 3km away which early on if anyone knows anything isnt easy especially since they super nerfed stamina

[Snowydeath]

That's why I think a possible solution is "hidden lvl gate", so each perk is tied to specific lvl: if a player meet requirement, perk only cost 1 skill point; otherwise you pay the price. Still not the best solution because on mp you can get a lot more xp, but at least sp does not have to be punished by this new system (increasing cost).

 

You realize those costs have always been there (In A16) so having them here again is fine and causes no issue. It would be nice if every 10th level you got 3-5 Perk Points though, as kind of a milestone ya know.

[LawofJohn]

or they add in game achievements that add skill points. They could do alot more then what they have atm, but it takes time to change course.

[Arkheias]

That's why I think a possible solution is "hidden lvl gate", so each perk is tied to specific lvl: if a player meet requirement, perk only cost 1 skill point; otherwise you pay the price. Still not the best solution because on mp you can get a lot more xp, but at least sp does not have to be punished by this new system (increasing cost).

 

That's cancer. It would ♥♥♥♥ over people who just weren't aware of the gimmick. Traps do not belong in a level up screen.

 

It would hamstring everyone by forcing people to start out as a jack-of-all-trades if they want to have an optimal build late game, as opposed to allowing people to start out specializing and branch out later.

 

Please stop trying to think of new ways to ♥♥♥♥ over players to satisfy your need for specialization.

[lord_ahriman]

That's cancer. It would ♥♥♥♥ over people who just weren't aware of the gimmick. Traps do not belong in a level up screen.

 

It would hamstring everyone by forcing people to start out as a jack-of-all-trades if they want to have an optimal build late game, as opposed to allowing people to start out specializing and branch out later.

 

Please stop trying to think of new ways to ♥♥♥♥ over players to satisfy your need for specialization.

 

My need of specialization? You clearly didn't understand my post. Let me make myself clear: I don't like specialization on SP nor the increased cost of perks, it just unnecessary punishment to the sp.

[Arkheias]

My need of specialization? You clearly didn't understand my post. Let me make myself clear: I don't like specialization on SP nor the increased cost of perks, it just unnecessary punishment to the sp.

And you ignored the majority of my post.

 

You are proposing a system where if a new player were to build their character to get access to the new vehicles as soon as possible, they would be locked out of other perks by dint of the game taking multiple skill points from them when they might have thought they were only spending one. This would not be consistent either because the costs change depending on player level.

 

You might have the points to get three perks by level 10, but instead you only get 2 because you bought one out of order at level 9.

 

It could trick players into specializing as a ♥♥♥♥ty mechanic by taking away their other options afterwards.

[lord_ahriman]

And you ignored the majority of my post.

 

You are proposing a system where if a new player were to build their character to get access to the new vehicles as soon as possible, they would be locked out of other perks by dint of the game taking multiple skill points from them when they might have thought they were only spending one. This would not be consistent either because the costs change depending on player level.

 

You might have the points to get three perks by level 10, but instead you only get 2 because you bought one out of order at level 9.

 

It could trick players into specializing as a ♥♥♥♥ty mechanic by taking away their other options afterwards.

 

 

Nope, you ignored TFP direction. They want specialization, so I proposed an alternative system which both could exist: you want specialization, totally fine, you pay the price TFP want, but if you want to make a slow progress, but lvling up all perks you pay just 1 skill point per lvl.

 

Yes, cost change depending on the lvl, but it would be much more reasonable than what TFP proposed, because let's say you want steel tools. If you go specialization, you pay almost 20 skill points, but if you lvl up all perks through your lvl, by reaching lvl 60 you can finally craft steels tools, but paying just 8 skill points (obviously I'm talking about Intelligence only). For me it's a no brainer: I'd never waste 20 points only to craft steel tools early game.

[Arkheias]

Nope, you ignored TFP direction. They want specialization, so I proposed an alternative system which both could exist: you want specialization, totally fine, you pay the price TFP want, but if you want to make a slow progress, but lvling up all perks you pay just 1 skill point per lvl.

 

Yes, cost change depending on the lvl, but it would be much more reasonable than what TFP proposed, because let's say you want steel tools. If you go specialization, you pay almost 20 skill points, but if you lvl up all perks through your lvl, by reaching lvl 60 you can finally craft steels tools, but paying just 8 skill points (obviously I'm talking about Intelligence only). For me it's a no brainer: I'd never waste 20 points only to craft steel tools early game.

TFP direction is stupid, of course I'm ignoring it. They effectively gave zombies x-ray vision to help them find routes to the player for ♥♥♥♥s sake.

 

Every new player starts out ignorant. With the previous skill system, the top advice for new players was to never spend skill points on skills they could level up by using because they would be wasted in the long run. Getting rid of those traps is one of the best parts of the new skill system.

 

Specialization can already be implemented perfectly by simply gating skill points behind the time required to gain new levels. That's all we need.

[Davy Crockett]

Specialization can already be implemented perfectly by simply gating skill points behind the time required to gain new levels. That's all we need.

True. The way it is now, the cost for higher level attributes increases exponentially, with the added nuisance of not being allowed to spend your points.

[Shin]

So many discussions back and forth. on good or bad... I cant however see any NEW player enjoying what we have atm. Might change but unfortunately I doubt it. Personally I've quit the game totally. I do check back on updates but so far I'm not impressed,

 

I do thank TFP for the +1000 hours of playtime. Well worth the money. But all good things eventually come to an end.

 

Shin

[LuckyStar]

Just remember, it's that kind of thinking that eventually led to Fallout 76.

 

Hmm.... I want to have a good response to this.....

 

.... but I've got nothin'!

[Kaiote]

So many discussions back and forth. on good or bad... I cant however see any NEW player enjoying what we have atm. Might change but unfortunately I doubt it. Personally I've quit the game totally. I do check back on updates but so far I'm not impressed,

 

I do thank TFP for the +1000 hours of playtime. Well worth the money. But all good things eventually come to an end.

 

Shin

 

I am a new player. I have played a fresh SP RWG game and a fresh 2-player coop Nav game at each a17e build. Every new build, sans 231 starve fest, we have enjoyed more and more. Hooked. Neither of us got past day 7 in 16.4 before losing interest.

[LuckyStar]

I am a new player. I have played a fresh SP RWG game and a fresh 2-player coop Nav game at each a17e build. Every new build, sans 231 starve fest, we have enjoyed more and more. Hooked. Neither of us got past day 7 in 16.4 before losing interest.

 

Now that's a refreshing post.

 

Also... Howdy neighbour!

 

Also in BC, Canada [Right on the coast!]

[Kaiote]

Now that's a refreshing post.

 

Also... Howdy neighbour!

 

Also in BC, Canada [Right on the coast!]

 

Thanks! The wife and I found our new co op game for the rainy season. Also on the coast, the currently not-so Sunshine Coast.

[Evorith]

One part of me agrees, but another disagrees.

 

You can't do it all by yourself now, you need to specialize in both early and late game now and that means higher replayability value.

 

That's great for me personally, because I play with couple of friends and specialization will be amazing for us.

 

Completely disagree with this I am a SP builder player and I want to be able to do it all that's the biggest issue I have currently with A17 I want to play solo and they don't want me too. I don't want to hunt zombies all the time I want to build but builing is pointless both under ground or above it.

[pahbi]

I've played 7DTD on and off for a few years, I always play SP, and I've always either modded the game myself or used other folks mods.

 

I'm not seeing the problem here.

 

- P

[Kaiote]

Completely disagree with this I am a SP builder player and I want to be able to do it all that's the biggest issue I have currently with A17 I want to play solo and they don't want me too. I don't want to hunt zombies all the time I want to build but builing is pointless both under ground or above it.

 

Pardon my ignorance, as I am a new player, but I cannot understand this. On my last A17 solo playthrough I took over a junkyard in the desert on Nav map. By day 7 I had built up the walls, planted gardens in all the garbage bins and installed basic kill corridors from three directions. I had a (poorly) placed bank of dart traps hooked to a (not targeting zombies doh) motion sensor. Concrete mix in the mixer and forge humming away on forged iron. Who doesn't want you to build? I think I recall seeing a slider in the game setup to turn off zombie spawns, hope thats helpful?

[lord_ahriman]

Pardon my ignorance, as I am a new player, but I cannot understand this. On my last A17 solo playthrough I took over a junkyard in the desert on Nav map. By day 7 I had built up the walls, planted gardens in all the garbage bins and installed basic kill corridors from three directions. I had a (poorly) placed bank of dart traps hooked to a (not targeting zombies doh) motion sensor. Concrete mix in the mixer and forge humming away on forged iron. Who doesn't want you to build? I think I recall seeing a slider in the game setup to turn off zombie spawns, hope thats helpful?

 

Adding to that. Since B197, I'm building underground workshops (below horde defense). I've been collecting materials all night (although, iron still a problem because main source still boulders) and no problems with wandering hordes or screamers. You absolutely can build, you just need to be extra careful.