Take catwalks out of the saw table

[Feycat]

Come on. Making a catwalk base up in a tree was a classic early game thing! Who even needs a catwalk by the time you get a saw table? And now zombies can knock over trees, so it's not 100% safe anymore.

 

That's a basic construction.

[Mephistopheles]

You're no longer able to attach blocks to trees.

[Kam R.]

I would agree, but from another point of view:

 

I'd say the table saw should unlock clean woodworking and fancy furniture items, while rickety looking stuff can be done on the fly.

The crappy looking standard wood door would be done in the backpack, but the neat looking ones with the table saw.

There could even be a stronger (and cleaner looking) category of wood building blocks, almost on par with cobblestone based blocks. That would make the table saw something somewhat desirable for those who don't care about furniture too.

 

The catwalks would definitely belong in the rickety category.

Right now it's rather inconsistent and as feycat pointed out, most of the items gated by the table saw are not needed at the level you get it.

 

Take block shapes like poles, quarters, wedges and such fore example. Can't make those from wood 'til you have the table saw, but you can make 'em all from flag/cobblestone on day 1. Makes no sense to me.

[RyanX]

Well, I would tend to disagree with the "no longer attach blocks to trees" thing. Maybe that was their intention but it still works somewhat. I ran into a bear at an early level so I plopped about 5 frames next to a tree and shot it. A nearby burning zombie came over and took out one of the bottom frames before starting on the tree. So I was on an unsupported frame a couple blocks up next to a tree killing a bear and zombie. I've done it several times since...one of the bottom frames gets popped but I'm still up there. That's only when I start from ground level next to the tree, not when I try to stick one higher. Bug?

[ricp]

I like the introduction of the table saw, and would like to see similar bench "extensions" but the choices of what needs it or not is a bit daft - imo.

 

What is utterly frustrating, not just from an operational sense but it also touches my OCD in the bathing suit area, is the need for the table saw for iron stairs with a railings on the right, but you don't need it for iron stairs with a railing on the left. I mean, just wtf?

 

Even needing a table saw for crafting any iron item seems misplaced for me. I get that with the introduction of level gates means the workbench is not early game so you couldn't use that for iron crafting, but at present if you want an iron table you need a table saw however if you want a wooden table you don't.

[Thorne]

The table saw is a solution in search of a problem. In order to solve this solution, the game has to become too complicated. You're drunk, TFP, go home. Separating the workbench into an early woodworking bench, and a later crafting/metalworking bench would have made... entirely too much sense. Just say "no."

[ricp]

The table saw is a solution in search of a problem.

 

It does seem like that, however aside from the slightly random nature of what item is needed to be used for what product (see my previous post) I do think they are a decent addition. We've seen several mods like Starvation or Ravenhurst (sp?) which have 4, 5 or even 6 different benches for specific things. I'd like to see that rolled into vanilla and I guess the saw table could be the first of those. It would make the issue of the level gate for a workbench a little less severe too as you will have subsidiary items in between level 0 and 20.

[Thorne]

You know, these steps taken by TFP really frustrate the hell out of me, and I don't communicate well when I'm so frustrated. The table saw was a f***ing stupid addition. I think someone wanted to model a table saw. They put it MID-way in the game, to build EARLY blocks, using LATE technology. It makes no sense, and I'm pretty certain that attempts to justify it ultimately lead to over-complicating the game.

 

Do we have trouble picturing how a survivor with a stone/iron axe makes complex wood structures? There are perhaps ways to deal with that, depending on how muddled in the details you are willing to get. There is a point at which, for the sake of gameplay and progression you most certainly want to glaze over various details and just figure that your character gets it done somewhere/somehow in the crafting time.

[Randomdude]

You know, these steps taken by TFP really frustrate the hell out of me, and I don't communicate well when I'm so frustrated. The table saw was a f***ing stupid addition. I think someone wanted to model a table saw. They put it MID-way in the game, to build EARLY blocks, using LATE technology. It makes no sense, and I'm pretty certain that attempts to justify it ultimately lead to over-complicating the game.

 

Lack of direction causes this. They seem to be adding things at random to make the building aspect seem "alive".

[Kirtonos]

Agreed on all counts with this item. I've built one when I've unlocked it in b199, b208, and now in b221... the times I've used it in almost 300 levels of playtime is zero.

 

I see this going the way of most items in that it'll be hamfisted into being required. I mean, if you want this item to be worthwhile, wood has to be worthwhile. Currently wood is only used to secure your first POI but once you start serious base construction it sees no significant usage.

[Dimpy]

The catwalks would definitely belong in the rickety category.

Disagree. They may look rickety, but they have a higher structural integrity, which suggests higher quality.

[LuckyStar]

Yeah I think the items and progression for the Table Saw need some tweaking.

 

 

Also like the idea of having some nicer blocks be made on the table saw.

 

TFP mentioned they made room for more textures.

Let's see a few of them be good looking things we can place in our bases.

[Feycat]

You know, these steps taken by TFP really frustrate the hell out of me, and I don't communicate well when I'm so frustrated. The table saw was a f***ing stupid addition. I think someone wanted to model a table saw. They put it MID-way in the game, to build EARLY blocks, using LATE technology. It makes no sense, and I'm pretty certain that attempts to justify it ultimately lead to over-complicating the game.

 

Do we have trouble picturing how a survivor with a stone/iron axe makes complex wood structures? There are perhaps ways to deal with that, depending on how muddled in the details you are willing to get. There is a point at which, for the sake of gameplay and progression you most certainly want to glaze over various details and just figure that your character gets it done somewhere/somehow in the crafting time.

 

I mean, I can apparently build solid brick structures with nothing more than a stone axe and some grass. The idea that I can't make a catwalk is dumb.

[Skeeter63082]

Perhaps making the normal non-rail variant of catwalks from your backpack while the nicer ones with railings requiring the saw would be a fair compromise? The general direction of this conversation is crude items = backpack and finer items = saw, and I agree with this 100%. Crude items should typically have less hp and structural strength, so you have to be mindful when building with them, while the more professsionally built items would be stronger all around and allow for more creative base building.

[LuckyStar]

Perhaps making the normal non-rail variant of catwalks from your backpack while the nicer ones with railings requiring the saw would be a fair compromise? The general direction of this conversation is crude items = backpack and finer items = saw, and I agree with this 100%. Crude items should typically have less hp and structural strength, so you have to be mindful when building with them, while the more professsionally built items would be stronger all around and allow for more creative base building.

 

Yeah I can see TFP doing this.

It makes so much sense.

 

The Saw is new and it just going to take time to get right.

Let's hope we see a few positive changes in the next patch.

[Skeeter63082]

Yeah I can see TFP doing this.

It makes so much sense.

 

The Saw is new and it just going to take time to get right.

Let's hope we see a few positive changes in the next patch.

 

I love the concept of a table saw! It always kind of felt out of place to be able to make all these intricate wood and metal designs with just crude tools. I'd like to see more work tables in the future that are relevant to other materials like metal. Maybe a metal working station that is complete with a drill press, sheet metal brake, and band saw that would basically be the metal equivalent of the table saw. So many possibilities!

[LuckyStar]

I love the concept of a table saw! It always kind of felt out of place to be able to make all these intricate wood and metal designs with just crude tools. I'd like to see more work tables in the future that are relevant to other materials like metal. Maybe a metal working station that is complete with a drill press, sheet metal brake, and band saw that would basically be the metal equivalent of the table saw. So many possibilities!

 

Yeah good ideas.

 

What I'd also like to see is a few vanity blocks.

 

Just mechanical and electronic thiggamajigs and stuff that do nothing but look cool.

 

The table saw looks great! Would be nice to have a few other "Power Tool" looking things to build with.

[Skeeter63082]

Yeah good ideas.

 

What I'd also like to see is a few vanity blocks.

 

Just mechanical and electronic thiggamajigs and stuff that do nothing but look cool.

 

The table saw looks great! Would be nice to have a few other "Power Tool" looking things to build with.

 

You can kind of get some of that stuff from the traders, but it would be fun to have that list greatly expanded. Make that workshop look more workshop-y. Or have an electrical room in your base complete with fuse boxes, conduit, and cool looking control panels. Maybe since now we have all these vehicles some things to put in a garage would be cool like tires you can put on the wall or posters or even some decorative neons signs. I just feel like that would be a fun late game thing to do.