LuckyStar Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Personally I think it shouldn't be gated in any way. Just a simple recipe, since, as mentioned, it's just duct tape & a flashlight (should be, why the plastic?). Good tweak would be adding in lightweight 'Construction Hat'. Like the the spazzes wear in-game. Make them maybe 1 point worth of Armor. Have Football Helmet be an early-mid Light Armor helm, and allow duct taping of flashlights to it. Add scrapping to Plastic/s for both. Have the actual 'flashlight mod' that fits onto Military/Police helms be quite a bit brighter. Leave Construc/Football+taped-on-flashlight remain as is currently. Then there's not only a clear Armor up, but also improved visibility to motivate folks. Just my .02 cents Yeah.... hmm.... Perhaps the Miner's Helm could have no gate at all since it's weak armour. The Military Helm with flashlight could be gated. That makes sense and is better game play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FileMachete Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah.... hmm.... Perhaps the Miner's Helm could have no gate at all since it's weak armour. The Military Helm with flashlight could be gated. That makes sense and is better game play. It may be a much tougher helm than what it looks like to me? But it looks like a $6 Hard Hat from Home Depot worn on construction sites. Decent protection if someone drops a hammer on your head, but no chin strap, no ear pro, etc. Pretty darn worthless fighting a zombie imo So I'd definately nerf it's Armor rating down to 'hardly there'. Any 'modern' football helmet would be really good zombie protection, again, imo. Based on the models they chose for Military/Police helmets, they're bullet resistent, and quite heavy irl. So, rationally would be Heavy Armor, but pretty overkill until Bandits are added. Haven't looked if they're still made but 'old' riot helmets weren't bulletproof, so lighter. Hell, I don't know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 It may be a much tougher helm than what it looks like to me? But it looks like a $6 Hard Hat from Home Depot worn on construction sites. Decent protection if someone drops a hammer on your head, but no chin strap, no ear pro, etc. Pretty darn worthless fighting a zombie imo So I'd definately nerf it's Armor rating down to 'hardly there'. Any 'modern' football helmet would be really good zombie protection, again, imo. Based on the models they chose for Military/Police helmets, they're bullet resistent, and quite heavy irl. So, rationally would be Heavy Armor, but pretty overkill until Bandits are added. Haven't looked if they're still made but 'old' riot helmets weren't bulletproof, so lighter. Hell, I don't know Okay I'd be fine with that. Able to make Miner's helmet right from the start but it's got crap armour rating to balance. Yup... I'm on board with that. The helms with better armour will be gated. Yup fine with that too. That's just proper game play if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FileMachete Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 yep yep but maybe we're old school (at least I am, ha). Lure em in with honey, -then- start the pain Edit: I mean, that's marriage right? And -that's- been working for -centuries-, even though men damn well know better! lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Able to make Miner's helmet right from the start but it's got crap armour rating to balance. Are there any people who have the slightest interest in the armor value of the mining helmet? I would wear a sock on the head if it allows me to see in the night I have the impression that torches got a bit better in A17, they give off more light. Sure, at the moment they might have a little bug where they sometimes vanish in the wall, but that should only be a temporary inconvenience. The principle of the game is that you start useless and broke and work your way up to the top. You either have to scavenge for the good stuff or buy it, and the mining helmet IS the good stuff that isn't a vehicle. If crafting it early was possible it would have to be really expensive to build and then everyone would ask: "Why do I need 5 car batteries to build a helmet?". The idea with the batteries would work well too. Oh, got an idea: How about the mining helmet needs a solar panel to build it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FileMachete Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Are there any people who have the slightest interest in the armor value of the mining helmet? I would wear a sock on the head if it allows me to see in the night I have the impression that torches got a bit better in A17, they give off more light. Sure, at the moment they might have a little bug where they sometimes vanish in the wall, but that should only be a temporary inconvenience. The principle of the game is that you start useless and broke and work your way up to the top. You either have to scavenge for the good stuff or buy it, and the mining helmet IS the good stuff that isn't a vehicle. If crafting it early was possible it would have to be really expensive to build and then everyone would ask: "Why do I need 5 car batteries to build a helmet?". The idea with the batteries would work well too. Oh, got an idea: How about the mining helmet needs a solar panel to build it heh funny guy mega ... -If- the damn torches weren't such a pita, then ok. But trying to dig a tunnel using torches is just, yuck. It's ok to be in complete dark when digging down, but once you start going horizontal... So while I get your point, I guess I'm too realistic; hmm, found a flashlight, found a head/hat thingy, have some tape... but yes, as the Mining Helmet is it's a bit op'd for start of game; though we used to find them really early on if rng liked us right? So suggested it just become basically a headlamp, I mean hell I used to hold my mini-maglight to a bandana with tape for a hillbilly headlamp, worked just fine. **Will say this, look at Guppys vid in dev thread he just posted, put those in the game & I'll keep quiet https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?74084-Developer-Discussions-Alpha-17&p=905551&viewfull=1#post905551 Edit: should add that early game there's not much to do at night except mining. Which is fine by me, I try to stockpile for when I get a forge. But I tend to mine tunnels to somewhere, rather than just big empty rooms now that z's can big. So something like Gups flashlight/lantern, ground placeable & pick-upable without LC, or a headlamp really just allows me to stay busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Are there any people who have the slightest interest in the armor value of the mining helmet? I would wear a sock on the head if it allows me to see in the night I have the impression that torches got a bit better in A17, they give off more light. Sure, at the moment they might have a little bug where they sometimes vanish in the wall, but that should only be a temporary inconvenience. The principle of the game is that you start useless and broke and work your way up to the top. You either have to scavenge for the good stuff or buy it, and the mining helmet IS the good stuff that isn't a vehicle. If crafting it early was possible it would have to be really expensive to build and then everyone would ask: "Why do I need 5 car batteries to build a helmet?". The idea with the batteries would work well too. Oh, got an idea: How about the mining helmet needs a solar panel to build it How about a nailgun battery? That could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter63082 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah, kind of a pain in the ass to find a mining helmet anymore. Used to find one in every 10 or cars searched and was a great early on light source you didn't have to wield. Now cars seem to mostly have ammo, which I suppose makes sense considering with an apocalypse looming, most people are going to pack things like food, water, ammo, etc when they attempt to evacuate vs grabbing a mining helmet they may or may not have lying around in the garage. Having an early head mounted light source is super helpful while base building at night, and with NVGs broken all to hell currently, headlamps are pretty much the gold standard unless you get lucky enough to score a helmet light mod (not schematic) and have something decent to mount it on. I suppose this is a counterbalance to how OP having a head light in early game can be and TFP are trying to cultivate that fear and anxiety early on so you can slowly overcome it and have a sense of accomplishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FileMachete Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 The 'fear factor' is a good point Skeeter. Too many hours played, kinda forgot all about that bit tbh Guess, for me, finding a flashlight 'should' equal "usable light". And I've found a flashlight every experimental game by end of day 2. Switching back and forth between flash & axe/pick to see if you're still pointed the right way is just a wee bit aggravating to me, heh. So I end up doing what Slingblade2040 does; once I have any helmet, a flash & duct tape, throw em out & cm in a t1 mining helmet. I was a tad worried, but nope, haven't lost any sleep over doing that --- and being serious, it's fine if the pimps like it as is, their game after all, and it doesn't bunch up my panties to cheat one in, err, I mean boxers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter63082 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah, I think that happens to people who have been playing a long time. We know the game so well that we honestly don't have much fear outside of "am I going to be able to find X by X time" or "will I be able to get X done by the bloodmoon". My very first playthrough, green as a damn cucumber, didn't really even grasp the basics. On my first bloodmoon, I realized why they called the game 7 Days to Die. I got caught out in the wasteland of Navezgane unable to get back to my base before dark. I didn't even realize what would happen on the night of Day 7 and once realizing I was in deep doodoo, I ran for one of the bombed out building POIs with the second story you have to jump like hell to get into. I blocked off the door with some wood frames and crouched in the back of the room clinging to my little quality 34 pistol and 4 rounds while wetting myself to the sound of an insane mob of bloodthirsty zombies savagely trying to bring the place down on my head. I was never so happy to hear the dawn music in all my time in 7DTD. I didn't even bother to see how much damage was done. I broke out the blocks I h ad placed and ran like hell for my base, nearly tripping a landmine or two in the process, caution be damned. I practically kissed the dirt floor of my base once I got back. That's a memory I will always have of 7DTD, and I honestly wish they could keep that anxiety going, but with knowledge comes power and day 1 is now just a minor inconvenience for us veterans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FileMachete Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I'm not as crazy as Royal (at least I hope not! ) but I have done a fair bit of tunneling this game. Here's a pic. Navesgane western lake area. grade is +61, I dug down to +18, then horizontal. Think I made it down to +18 before nightfall day 4? Learned the hard way in earlier game to -not- try and dig/mine at night until you're down ~40 blocks or so. So dug first vertical access shaft during daytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerial Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Though the system could use some tweaks, to me, the gating system seems more like a bad luck protection system. You might get lucky and whatever item early on, but with the leveling system in place, you will be able to craft the item if you don't find it early on. - P I think a better way to accomplish bad luck protection would be to make desirable items available in the trader's secret stash after a certain number of days/player levels rather than level gating. Then if you are X level or it's day Y and you still haven't found that mining helmet you should be able to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter63082 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I think a better way to accomplish bad luck protection would be to make desirable items available in the trader's secret stash after a certain number of days/player levels rather than level gating. Then if you are X level or it's day Y and you still haven't found that mining helmet you should be able to buy it. I mean trader RNG alone pretty much gets you this, especially if you are able to locate multiple traders. Personally, I've never had to look too hard to find something I was looking for. There have been a few things that have been more difficult than others, such as solar banks and panels since traders are still the only source of those, but I'm typically not even incorporating those into my electrical grid until way into the game anyway. Wrenches for example used to be a big ticket item to find in A15 and A16 due to needing them for harvesting cars, electrical panels, etc for parts. Now by day 20 I've got so many wrenches that I could start using them as ammo to chuck at zombies, not to mention electrical and mechanical parts are easier to find if you know where to look and what to do. I'm just not sure how I feel about something being guaranteed at a trader at a certain point. I love the randomness of hitting a trader after an inventory reset and digging through to see what might be of use. If they have something that I've been after, I get a little burst of excitement. If I know for a fact it'll be there because I've either reached a certain day, level, or gamestage, I feel like it might take some of the fun out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerial Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I mean trader RNG alone pretty much gets you this, especially if you are able to locate multiple traders. Personally, I've never had to look too hard to find something I was looking for. There have been a few things that have been more difficult than others, such as solar banks and panels since traders are still the only source of those, but I'm typically not even incorporating those into my electrical grid until way into the game anyway. Wrenches for example used to be a big ticket item to find in A15 and A16 due to needing them for harvesting cars, electrical panels, etc for parts. Now by day 20 I've got so many wrenches that I could start using them as ammo to chuck at zombies, not to mention electrical and mechanical parts are easier to find if you know where to look and what to do. I'm just not sure how I feel about something being guaranteed at a trader at a certain point. I love the randomness of hitting a trader after an inventory reset and digging through to see what might be of use. If they have something that I've been after, I get a little burst of excitement. If I know for a fact it'll be there because I've either reached a certain day, level, or gamestage, I feel like it might take some of the fun out of it. I'm actually in favor of everything being RNG, despite how frustrating that can sometimes be. And I'm in favor of some top-tier things not being craftable, ever. But, if there's going to be a mechanic to guarantee access to specific items, I'd rather find some way to do it that doesn't involve level gating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter63082 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I'm actually in favor of everything being RNG, despite how frustrating that can sometimes be. And I'm in favor of some top-tier things not being craftable, ever. But, if there's going to be a mechanic to guarantee access to specific items, I'd rather find some way to do it that doesn't involve level gating. Well, the idea I'm toying with regarding level gating involves removing the level gates entirely for the first 5 tiers of each category. This would allow you to spec into whatever basics you want at first, but once you get to a certain point, i.e making a forge you're going to hit a wall before you can do too much more. This way you might be able to have a forge and bicycle on day 1, but it'll still be way later on before you start making steel or advanced ammo or better vehicles etc. This would allieviate a lot of the early game woes that are bugging a lot of people. Mainly it would give you a hell of a lot more flexibility when you need it most and are the most vulnerable, and allow you to more adequately respond to your environment and situation until you can get a stable setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HungryZombie Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Are there any people who have the slightest interest in the armor value of the mining helmet? I would wear a sock on the head if it allows me to see in the night I have the impression that torches got a bit better in A17, they give off more light. Sure, at the moment they might have a little bug where they sometimes vanish in the wall, but that should only be a temporary inconvenience. The principle of the game is that you start useless and broke and work your way up to the top. You either have to scavenge for the good stuff or buy it, and the mining helmet IS the good stuff that isn't a vehicle. If crafting it early was possible it would have to be really expensive to build and then everyone would ask: "Why do I need 5 car batteries to build a helmet?". The idea with the batteries would work well too. Oh, got an idea: How about the mining helmet needs a solar panel to build it Nah don't need to get crazy. Just gate it behind finding AAA batteries or something. Sure make the helmet at lvl 1. You're gonna need a factory though to make batteries for it - gated lvl 100 BAM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I'm actually in favor of everything being RNG, despite how frustrating that can sometimes be. And I'm in favor of some top-tier things not being craftable, ever. As much as I find this frustrating it's also rewarding isn't it? It's a little like gambling isn't it? That rush you get when you finally craft the perfect thing with the stuff and the junk! Aaaah yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerial Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 As much as I find this frustrating it's also rewarding isn't it? It's a little like gambling isn't it? That rush you get when you finally craft the perfect thing with the stuff and the junk! Aaaah yeah. Not to mention that as long as you haven't found X important thing, your game does not feel "over". It's hard to get bored when you still have things to work toward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter63082 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Not to mention that as long as you haven't found X important thing, your game does not feel "over". It's hard to get bored when you still have things to work toward. This! I mean once you have a solid base built, full military armor at max quality, max quality weapons, enough ammo to supply a small army, more food and water than you'll ever eat/drink, and all the vehicles sitting in a garage, what is there to really do? You've won. Start over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Not to mention that as long as you haven't found X important thing, your game does not feel "over". It's hard to get bored when you still have things to work toward. Hahahahaha suuuuumbuddy has a little OCD. Haha me too! I HAAAAAAVE to get all the things and stuff and junk in a game. It never feels right until I've got it all. I even keep journals so I can write stuff down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter63082 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Hahahahaha suuuuumbuddy has a little OCD. Haha me too! I HAAAAAAVE to get all the things and stuff and junk in a game. It never feels right until I've got it all. I even keep journals so I can write stuff down. Yeah, same here. Which is why as we talked about in the other thread Runescape is going to suck whats left of the life out of me. At least I can see 7DTD as a more controlled environment for my gaming OCD and I have a little more control over what happens. At least it feels that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah, same here. Which is why as we talked about in the other thread Runescape is going to suck whats left of the life out of me. At least I can see 7DTD as a more controlled environment for my gaming OCD and I have a little more control over what happens. At least it feels that way. Yeah... jeez all those capes. And cape parties! Ohh...... wow I miss all those people from back then. Even almost married someone from Runescape irl. [Regret not going through with it actually.] Aaaah good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter63082 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Yeah... jeez all those capes. And cape parties! Ohh...... wow I miss all those people from back then. Even almost married someone from Runescape irl. [Regret not going through with it actually.] Aaaah good times. Don't forget the party hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuckyStar Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Don't forget the party hats. I lost mine. Think all I have is 4 santas and some decent armour. Was maxed out back then though... except dungeoneering. Been awhile. [Though I still have all my RS info.... yeesh why do I still keep that?] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeeter63082 Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Been awhile. [Though I still have all my RS info.... yeesh why do I still keep that?] Same reason an ex-smoker keeps a cigarette lighter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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