stupid Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 7D is one of the best voxel games ever created. Just googling a list of best voxel games, the first result has 7D at the very top, right up there with Minecraft: https://www.slant.co/topics/1748/~best-voxel-based-games-for-the-pc Given that 7D is recognized for this, A17 makes some strange choices in my opinion: -Mining seems to be deprioritized(little xp, stamina issues, lack of caves). Many players say "Just mine the surface rocks, its easier!" They're right, it is easier, but what's missing from this picture? Oh, right, this is only the best voxel game ever created. If I won't be digging to create a bunker, and I won't be digging to mine, then what is the purpose of digging? A17 just marginalized one of its core features. -Base building seems to be deprioritized as well, and limited in terms of safe designs. XP is nerfed. Underground bases aren't feasible as far as I can tell. Bases which take advantage of fall damage aren't feasible. Spikes are gone. If you place something down you can't pick it back up. This puts a limit on creativity and variation, confines the player to a limited number of designs, and undermines 7D's paramount base building. I understand certain base designs were OP(like the spike pit/shooting gallery bases) but there are a number of ways of solving that other than eliminating a core aspect from the game. For example(I'm just spitballing ideas) make spiders immune to fall damage and capable of sliding through gaps in pillars. Or make fatties violently explode when they die from fall damage. Or make soldiers with their combat boots able to walk over spikes. I'd like to see balance happen, and if you have to nerf something, don't nerf a core feature that put you on the list for best voxel game of all time. This is a great game, and A17 definitely brought some awesome new features. I think with some adjustments this could be a very, very well-received update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzHawkeye Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 See, that's how to do constructive (negative) feedback. Can't say I disagree with much there either. I'd love more of a reason to mine, and I'd love a reason (beyond just for the sake of doing it) to build a really big base. I was a fan of the A11 cave system myself, or indeed, the need in A9 to keep Zeek away from crops due to them being trampled. I still think implementing Colonies could address some of these issues, so it's something I hope TFP do plan for, either in the base 1.0 game, or as a later DLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorne Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Amen to that. In my agreement, however, I have come to believe that the limited base design argument tends to be overstated. I think it's clear a lot of old designs have been killed, but who can say where the creativity of 7D2D survivors may lead, out of necessity. Certainly not underground, as of this experimental release. "If you place something down you can't pick it back up." Nothing has changed there from A16--only frames can be picked back up (until you upgrade them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 but who can say where the creativity of 7D2D survivors may lead, out of necessity. I agree. Since A8 my friends and I have made all kinds of bases. We reinforced existing POIs, we made fall traps, moats, shooting galleries, bunker gauntlets, a hollow pyramid covered in spikes with the top cut off, etc. We don't build these because we read about other players' exploits, we built them because we had our own ideas. We had that flexibility. That flexibility makes the game fun because we came up with the ideas ourselves. We shouldn't have to read about how someone found an optimal design which takes advantage of pathfinding or whatever. If I'm 1400 hours in and I'm only coming up with menial designs, maybe I'm stupid, but I feel bad for the new guy who tries to be creative but gets obliterated because he didn't use an optimal design made by someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Dude, you literally ARE stupid. You have sole claim on that in these forums. I have not closely read a single base building thread. I want to figure things out for myself and I am. I’ve been having fun figuring it out for myself. Balance needs that you mention are planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorne Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I won't argue with you, because I feel myself in the same boat, but I also find myself feeling rather stupid as a result of the change (no play on your handle intended). I think we feel experienced because we have A16 (more?) under our belt, but so many rules have changed that this experience no longer really applies like it "should". Your mind tells you "this is 7D2D, you've got this!", but the damn game tells you you're a noob and it's time to die. It's not easy to re-learn something that looks so familiar. That said, everything you're addressing I don't like. I'm coming from a MASSIVE, almost impenetrable base (because I WANT to meet zombies on my terms, ultimately, not just survive constantly), on a fairly large island in the middle of a really large lake, linked by a yet unfinished 5x5, bedrock tunnel ~8kmacross the 10km RADIUS map to the heart of a ~200m mountain in a mountain range on the outer CIRCUMFERENCE of the map. As awesome as the graphics, the vehicles (that you can no longer disassembled/cannibalize) and so many other things are in A17, I feel like they cut my game in half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Dude, you literally ARE stupid. You have sole claim on that in these forums. I have not closely read a single base building thread. I want to figure things out for myself and I am. I’ve been having fun figuring it out for myself. Balance needs that you mention are planned. I tend to build high up in a poi when I take one over, but, I make sure I make a path for zombies to get to me, usually a long winding staircase/path, with barbed wire on top of it so they are slowed. They get ragdolled they usually fall off and have to restart walking up from the start. This prevents them from going after suppot pillars, and makes them take a predictable path I can trap. The large church with its high roof and pretty big open area inside, is great for a starter base, knock out the back stairs, and the only way the zombies enter is from the front door. Perfect for a blade trap, or a molotov chucking experence. As zombies do way to much block damage now, mainly because they tend to focus fire blocks now and get a bonus the more of them are hitting the same one, the main way to make a viable base is to exploit the AI. Especally with how stupidly weak and useless the spike traps are now on nomad and up, i'm not talking about the exploit with the log spikes either, the wood/iron spikes just do far to little damage now, and they can't bust the zombies legs out either. I've adapted though, I use barbed wire fences insted of spikes, sure they don't do damage but they slow and pain animation them making them take MUCH longer to get to me along my kill path I made. I figured this out after seeing how zombies path now, I can now get thru horde nights sometimes with zombies barely touching any blocks at all, Think my record was my first horde in the chruch, they destroyed I think, 3-4 blocks total the entire night... or it would have been 3-4 but my staircase I made to me, I didn't make strong enough and a puking cop kinda... busted my staircase in the middle lol. Thankfully the church roof/floor I made seemed to be fine even with all the support pillars inside the church destroyed. so I got past it fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I did not read your post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 I understand that some of the game needs to be re-learned. It's great that we're re-learning and adapting. But what have we learned? That core mechanics no longer work? If someone new were to play this game, they would buy it knowing it's one of the best voxel games ever. What do we tell them? "Hey the whole voxel thing was OP so now it's a shooter game" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirefightGI Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 I have not built a base since A15, if you put perks in the right area and fight smart you can take on the horde night without dying as long as you didn't get hurt the day before. IMO this is more fun/challenging but I'm weird and have also done playthroughs where I only allow myself to break blocks that can be broken in one hit. If you mine, build underground or build a skyscraper it does not matter as long as you are doing what you think is fun, with enough practice you can even defend an unmodified POI on horde night. I do miss caves though, I would love to see more underground POI since many you can just pillar up to the roof and grab loot =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupid Posted December 12, 2018 Author Share Posted December 12, 2018 I have not built a base since A15 It sounds like A17 is perfect for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.