Zombie AI and Base Building

[fazi]

Only issue is when they add randomness a lot of strategy is going to go out the window. Then we are just back to walls. Now i dont love the idea of mazes. But chokepoints are awesome. And if we lose them in going to be bummed.

 

Kage, i watch and enjoy your videos, but i think you need to do more research / experiments. In a17 B208 , i've build a classical pillar base, with multiple layers, 2 floors for defense and then my stuff.In time you add blade traps/dart/turrets. It was very fun.I had no time to complete it on experimental but i will once the game goes stable. You basically defend the first layer until hey get in, then move to the second layer, a lot of adrenaline.Also i made the first floor roof from bars so you can shot from above in case they break all the defenses on the first floor. If you do you put enough suports, you wont have Si problems.

Maze means exploiting Ai.

[Zourin]

From a single-player perspective, it's kinda really important to manage BM hordes in a controlled way.

 

Before A17, you needed a full 360 degree defense setup, because you had zero control over which section of a perimeter they were going to hit. Other than avoidance strategies, there were only two 'aggressive' setups. A small (10x10 or less) 'suicide box' built with half-pillars or bars to quickly prioritize targets and keep repairs within reach; or a perimeter wall heavily defended with trunk tips to deal with random strays and stragglers split from the main group.

 

In A17, It isn't 'easier' to herd them into a focused defense zone, doing it SAFELY requires a few very specific tricks. One wrong block placed or destroyed can cause dramatic changes to the AI's choices, and usually unexpected catastrophic effects to a defensive plan where there's already no room for error. The only reasonably safe option right now in SP is the 'drop loop' setup, as I've not found anything that doesn't resort to the tried, true, and last-ditch 'stay above them and shoot down' tactics.

 

I don't like Drop-Loop, but there's so little sustainable damage options that a Solo ends up having to juggle 5-6 live zombies while the 2-3 dead ones get replaced, and that basically equates to sustained wall damage and perimeter breaches. I've tried pit-traps, but the hordes, when entering only 8 at a time, basically expend the traps faster than it can kill or soften zombies. It's also insanely expensive to maintain at 20 wood a trap when you have to replace 100 wood spike traps after only killing half a horde (at best). Iron isn't 'cheaper' by any stretch.

[Grue]

Personally Gazz, I think they're a little too smart - I'm sort of hoping that when A18 and Bandits hit, the Bandits have the current AI (or an even better one), and Zombies have a more pre-A17-like "dumb" AI.

 

I think Zombies should, more or less, walk blindly into static defenses, and it should the Bandits that you really have to worry about finding that one chink in the armor that lets them into your base.

 

Yes, this is a good idea.

[Ghostlight]

Currently, as others have said, you need to use the zombie ai to your advantage.

 

Nitpick: We have devised a new base design that does not exploit the AI* and is absolutely rocking gamestage 300+ hordes. I am not prepared to describe it though as TFP will likely change the AI to make it non-viable, but such bases do exist in A17. I refuse to exploit the crap AI in A17.

 

* My yardstick for determining whether you are exploiting the A17 AI in your base design is whether the exact same base would also work in A16. All these infinite ramp/stairs loop bases for example, would be torn to pieces in A16.

[Colin248]

honestly base building these days reminds me of the good old days from back in the early alphas. set up a kill zone or kill box at the main entryway of your base, with a way you can get in effectively. or go through your own gauntlet. il get some screepcaps of my current base set up, but honestly, there is no reason to exploit the AI. just make a base but keep it logical. hell even a castle can work.

[Royal Deluxe]

honestly base building these days reminds me of the good old days from back in the early alphas. set up a kill zone or kill box at the main entryway of your base, with a way you can get in effectively. or go through your own gauntlet. il get some screepcaps of my current base set up, but honestly, there is no reason to exploit the AI. just make a base but keep it logical. hell even a castle can work.

 

The problem is only that if i stand on Heigh 245 in my living room i simply dont thrust anymore the SI and that no standart zombie destroy my tower. But for this we have mods

[RipClaw]

il get some screepcaps of my current base set up, but honestly, there is no reason to exploit the AI. just make a base but keep it logical. hell even a castle can work.

 

How exactly do you define "exploiting the AI"?

 

Even a castle is not just a few strong walls. The architecture is based on strategic considerations which of course includes the behaviour of enemy troops.

 

Of course you can ignore all you know about the zombies and just put up a lot of spikes and try to defend yourself with pure firepower but that doesn't work in the long run.