a17 spikes

[zymex]

hey have been playing a17 exp. for abit of time, and noticed old big spike and fire spike is gone.

why is that removed

 

zombier have been harder to kill and defend horde night and now also less defence stuff to do it with? gg

 

any info why it was removed? and/or will it be replaced with something new to defend your base? despite cluster wooden and metal spikes?

[PeskyPomelo]

I don't have an answer for why they disabled them. but they are still in the xml-files, so a quick edit to recipes.xml and you should be able to craft them again

[Kosmic Kerman]

hey have been playing a17 exp. for abit of time, and noticed old big spike and fire spike is gone.

why is that removed

 

zombier have been harder to kill and defend horde night and now also less defence stuff to do it with? gg

 

any info why it was removed? and/or will it be replaced with something new to defend your base? despite cluster wooden and metal spikes?

 

Because the animations were funky when placed properly and zombies clipped inside them. Placing them upside down was clearly an exploit. There may have been other reasons as well.

[Blazer777]

the old spikes are gone because some of the original hardcore players whined their damn asses off that it made it to easy and those players know who they are

[JCrook1028]

Because the animations were funky when placed properly and zombies clipped inside them. Placing them upside down was clearly an exploit. There may have been other reasons as well.

 

If TFP removed them because people used them upside down then they could have just as easily removed the advanced rotations from them to fix that "problem". It's a simply xml edit of true to false to do so.

[InSanity]

If TFP removed them because people used them upside down then they could have just as easily removed the advanced rotations from them to fix that "problem". It's a simply xml edit of true to false to do so.

 

I believe a saw a comment from faatal that was something along the lines of they were always a placeholder and that they had previously stated for us not to get used to them as eventually they would be taken out.

[storm6436]

I believe a saw a comment from faatal that was something along the lines of they were always a placeholder and that they had previously stated for us not to get used to them as eventually they would be taken out.

 

I don't remember seeing that, but even then it does not make a lot of sense. Zombies were a lot easier to beat prior to this alpha, so why add a "placeholder", much less spend the effort to add additional tiers to placeholders that were going to be removed?

 

As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, the upside down bit is easily solved in acceptable orientation code... but the simple fact of the matter is that even with the iron upgrade added to regular spikes, they're still inadequate to the task, even 5 spikes thick. They really need a steel upgrade if this is all we're going to be given, especially given the polished steel nerf to walls.

 

And no, I'm not demanding impentrable walls or to be able to AFK through hordes here. I'm noting that with ranged DPS nerf + spikes nerf + wall upgrade nerf + cement downgrade nerf, the "balancing" is starting to get closer to "Anakin bringing balance to the force" instead of "We've brought balance to the game and now it's more fun."

[n2n1]

You have no idea how much more you can cut out of the game under different pretexts.

And still, there will always be plenty of things to "exploit".

 

In that play the then let us?

[Jugginator]

Either way, those log spikes were really OP lol. The iron spikes are actually very effective, and can be placed rather flush on top of one another to form a sort of a wall, I dig them. I used them/would keep using them in a 1-wall horde base all the way to day 58.

[LuckyStar]

Placing them upside down was clearly an exploit....

 

I'm betting this was the main reason why they're gone.

 

Shame too... I liked that exploit.

[n2n1]

There is no problem - was could just remove the "advanced rotation".

I did so and it solved the "exploit" problem.

[kamer1337]

now we cant defend our base on PVP servers without log spikes. the new ones are very low hp

[Gazz]

If TFP removed them because people used them upside down then they could have just as easily removed the advanced rotations from them to fix that "problem". It's a simply xml edit of true to false to do so.

A much bigger reason was the practically guaranteed leg decap of spikes so that 2 or 3 rows of spikes was all you ever really needed as base defenses.

That made a mockery of the "Tower Defense" part of the game.

 

 

I believe a saw a comment from faatal that was something along the lines of they were always a placeholder and that they had previously stated for us not to get used to them as eventually they would be taken out.

They looked okay as the top cover of wood palisades... but only with very bad-looking 1m pillar palisades that channel a strong Minecraft spirit.

They don't look dangerous at all.

 

If wood palisades were to be re-done to A17 graphical standards then I guess it would be something like fence segments with 3 or 4 poles to a meter.

[Viktoriusiii]

A much bigger reason was the practically guaranteed leg decap of spikes so that 2 or 3 rows of spikes was all you ever really needed as base defenses.

That made a mockery of the "Tower Defense" part of the game.

.

The funny thing is:

Now that zombies ragdoll, zombies that die should give the other zombies a kind of protection should it not?

 

 

I mean the concept of "they are not balanced so lets remove them entirely instead of tweeking them" seems to be a common practise with TFPs... but still.

Lower damage! Reduce legsremoval chance, dead zombie ragdolls as protection, nothing can be placed above them (like other spikes or barbed wire) so there is no slow down.

Hell make it so that they only increase falldamage (like in spikepits).

 

 

There are so many fixes... removing a part of the game the player was trained to use/love is such a bad idea... -_-

[Gazz]

No amount of balancing would have made log spikes look good or dangerous.

[General Lee]

We could still keep them in the game as a decorative type block, and have them do no damage. I'm not a fan of removing anything from the game in most cases. The more content, the more variety, the better.

[seagas]

We could still keep them in the game as a decorative type block, and have them do no damage. I'm not a fan of removing anything from the game in most cases. The more content, the more variety, the better.

 

Could you imagine the outrage that would happen if they kept them but they did zero damage =8^O

[Gazz]

I think that would be fun.

[Viktoriusiii]

No amount of balancing would have made log spikes look good or dangerous.

 

and you are basing this hypothesis on what exactly?

make them cost a lot of wood/iron to upgrade (so that you cant fill large pits with them)

make them deal considerable less damage when walked on.

make a steel version of them that deals about the same as the upgraded iron ones did in A16

remove legexplosions from spikes

zombiecorpses protecting zombies coming after from getting spikedamage

no placable blocks above spikes

zombies now can dig down. Make them target the logspikes if they cant find immediate entrance to the player

 

and I can think of at least three more varients with a bit less effectiveness of the top of my head.

 

You want to tell me that NONE of those might have balanced logspikes? REALLY?

So are the bladetraps now balanced? Better remove them too!

Btw molotovs are too op, they can't be in the game.

Did I mention that you can simply dig down to bedrock and be completely safe? REMOVE DIGGING!

Oh and what about lakes? Zombies cant swim. REMOVE LAKES.

And vehicles can let you avoid every horde you want REMOVE VEHICLES

and...

 

you get my drift? Just because you haven't found a way to balance them yet does not mean that you should completely remove a feature that was previously a key part in the game (*cough cough* Ark Flyer nerf).

Its one thing to change how they work (more falldamage, nearly no walking damage), but to completely remove them is just...

 

*shakes its had with a sad expression*

 

but oh well... I'm just a stupid player pleb who has obviously no idea about gamedevelopment and only has a kneejerk reaction and nothing he says is based on facts.

I'm sorry to bother you.

[Gazz]

and you are basing this hypothesis on what exactly?

The fact that they look like a cone that you can stand on or walk over/past without taking as much as a scratch.

[Viktoriusiii]

Which is how spiketraps work.

Which is why I said reduce damage (from non falling damage) drastically, but keep the falldamagemultiplier.

Its hard enough to dig deeper than dirt anyways. (a pit of 10 blocks takes hours without an auger, at which points there 100% are multiple cops who will survive it)

Not to mention that there are things WAY WORSE for the balance, which are obviously not getting removed. So why the spikes?

[PeskyPomelo]

No amount of balancing would have made log spikes look good or dangerous.

 

Lol, this. Always thought the log spikes looked a bit weird.

 

I don't understand what people have against the small spikes. I think they look way better, especially the new metal ones, and they do a decent job.

 

Still, people who want the log spikes back, why not just add them yourself? If you don't know how to, just ask in the mod section.

[Viktoriusiii]

They definatly look better and make more sense (especially the iron ones) problemn is, they are super weak and have no real killing potential and zombies avoid them like some gps system.

So a spikepit would still be nice

[Feycat]

The stick spikes are fine. They kill zombies just fine. They obvious get wiped out in places during a horde night, but for the rest of the week they're MORE than enough.

 

And if you take advantage of the AI in their placement, they're fine on horde night too. Especially once you upgrade them to iron.

[storm6436]

Lol, this. Always thought the log spikes looked a bit weird.

 

I don't understand what people have against the small spikes. I think they look way better, especially the new metal ones, and they do a decent job.

 

Still, people who want the log spikes back, why not just add them yourself? If you don't know how to, just ask in the mod section.

 

Personally I agree. The new spike models look a lot better, especially the irons... I'm not even necessarily attached to the leg-splosions from A16. Hell, the new spikes do a hell of a lot of damage... but their HP is ass. Hence why I'm thinking they need a steel upgrade and the HP curve needs tweaked a bit more.

 

And not "I want 10x the HP" either. Irons have 2x the HP wood does, maybe a bump to 2.5 or 3 might do and steel twice that.