Is there a workaround for mining?

[PPanda0421]

In A16.x you would sometimes get cave-ins. In A17e you get a cave every other mining action. Based on previous A16 experience and hints in journals ore is supposed to be found near gravel patches. I see gravel, I shovel the gravel. Bam! Cave-in occurs dropping more gravel and losing ore (lead/iron/whatever). I see an ore block embedded in gravel, I mine the ore. Bam! Cave-in occurs dropping more gravel and losing more ore. So I'm losing a lot of ore (and health) just because I'm following the game's instructions to mine near gravel.

 

I'm in a forest and I'm getting so many cave-ins and losing lots of ore this way. Imagine what it's like in a desert biome where there's tons of sand...

 

Another issue, lead, iron, coal, etc all have the same color. What if I'm looking for a specific ore? Now I am forced to hit a coal-looking block just to see what it is. Whose bright idea was this to make ores have the same color now? You've already added tons of new - mainly cosmetic - blocks. Why would you change the color for existing/well known blocks?

 

So can I change some XML or setting to reduce cave-ins? What about reverting the ore colors to what they were before?

 

TL;DR - Mining sucks in A17e. Too many cave-ins for no apparent reason. Also different ores have the same color for some reason.

[sadpickle]

The only foolproof method is to dig down from the surface. Remember that it's a voxel game; digging straight down in a column will prevent a cave-in. I think that's what they mean when they say dig near gravel (there are gravel patches anywhere there are surface boulders).

[Zourin]

If you dig through the gravel layers, they should indicate the nearby ore type. Gravel near a Nitrate vein will yield small amounts of nitrate, etc.

 

It's a bit more complicated if you simply dig down, such as in the desert, looking for that sweet shale. There's no indication of what's nearby, and with everything looking the same, about all you can do is give it a tap to check.

[PPanda0421]

The only foolproof method is to dig down from the surface. Remember that it's a voxel game; digging straight down in a column will prevent a cave-in. I think that's what they mean when they say dig near gravel (there are gravel patches anywhere there are surface boulders).

 

Hi yes that's one way but I like to mine at nighttime. During the day I explore/loot. Mining at night while exposed to the surface can bring unwanted guests. Usually I create 3-wide tunnels on bedrock level from one biome to the next so I can safely travel anytime using the minibike. If I encounter gravel patches, then I just mine all the ore around them. I just started creating my tunnels and I ran into this issue.

[PPanda0421]

If you dig through the gravel layers, they should indicate the nearby ore type. Gravel near a Nitrate vein will yield small amounts of nitrate, etc.

 

It's a bit more complicated if you simply dig down, such as in the desert, looking for that sweet shale. There's no indication of what's nearby, and with everything looking the same, about all you can do is give it a tap to check.

 

Hi I know all about the indicators. The issue is I'm already underground at this point so I can't see the surface boulders. I need to tap a coal-looking ore to see what it actually is. So I'm wasting stamina/time just to check. Also, some biomes have other types as well. Eg. I found coal/iron/lead/potassium all in the forest biome so I still have to check. You make a good point about the desert biome though. Before the desert biome was my goto place to get iron since sand is very easy to dig through. But I'm having second thoughts because of the cave-ins.

 

My main issue is the frequent cave-ins.

[OzHawkeye]

Hi yes that's one way but I like to mine at nighttime. During the day I explore/loot. Mining at night while exposed to the surface can bring unwanted guests. Usually I create 3-wide tunnels on bedrock level from one biome to the next so I can safely travel anytime using the minibike. If I encounter gravel patches, then I just mine all the ore around them. I just started creating my tunnels and I ran into this issue.

 

Keep in mind, in A17, zombies can, and will, dig down, very quickly to you. Those bedrock tunnels are no longer 100% safe.

[PPanda0421]

Keep in mind, in A17, zombies can, and will, dig down, very quickly to you. Those bedrock tunnels are no longer 100% safe.

 

Well if I place a minibike down there I'm pretty sure they won't be able to keep up with me .

[OzHawkeye]

Well if I place a minibike down there I'm pretty sure they won't be able to keep up with me .

 

No, not while you're riding around, but when you stop to mine it'll be a whole other story. ;-)

[PPanda0421]

No, not while you're riding around, but when you stop to mine it'll be a whole other story. ;-)

 

Yeah you could be right. I haven't faced them yet while mining though. Actually it seems that there are less zombies in A17e in the wilderness than in A16. In one session I ran 3-5KM at nighttime from the desert biome to my base in the forest biome. Saw 1 zombie out in the wilderness and easily took care of him. Now I'm currently playing on nomad (just to try it out) so I don't know if the lower difficulty settings affects zombie counts. In A16 you could set the zombie count to very high and find tonnes of zombies outside (town and wilderness). Barely see that many out in the wilderness in A17e. Perhaps it's because they moved most zombies to sleeper zombies inside POIs?

 

Bottom line is outside of BM nights there aren't that many zombies (not including the wandering horde) that can track me at night time.

 

Edit: Might be A15 that allowed zombie count setting (not the blood moon count).

[Guest]

I noticed the more frequent cave ins too. You can probably prevent some of them by placing frames or other blocks as support while you dig, but I haven't really done enough mining to know if this is actually workable.

[myrkana]

I noticed the more frequent cave ins too. You can probably prevent some of them by placing frames or other blocks as support while you dig, but I haven't really done enough mining to know if this is actually workable.

 

 

this. make a support system of wood frames and you're fine. Gravel has always needed a support system to hold it in place gravel isn't very strong on its own

[storm6436]

Yeah, there's no real work around other than being aware of the physics and changing your approach. Either mine from the surface down or if you're starting from bedrock the name of the game is to bore a single-wide tunnel up to the "top" of the gravel and then begin shaving it down to bedrock from there.

 

Complicating factor of the last option: if the gravel vein is wide enough you're going to get SI issues unless you're putting in support pillars to the "ceiling" all the way from bedrock. Aaaand if it's tall enough to hit dirt layer you get a different set of fun times. Not only are you more easily detectable by wandering zombies (and that dirt isn't going to slow them down much), but dirt's SI is *significantly* weaker. So either your support pillar density must go up or you must place a layer/cap immediately under the dirt attached to pillars appropriately spaced for the material you're capping with.

 

I really need to have lowf do a video so I can explain this approach. Not sure if it's the best way, but it's the best way I've found so far.

[pahbi]

You either have to strip mine, use support blocks, or edit the materials.xml file.

 

I really don't like the cave ins either.

 

Look for Msand and Mgravel in materials.xml. I haven't tried it, but it looks like changing the stability_glue value might help. For reference, the stability value of stone is 120.

 

*EDIT*

 

I tried it and it worked well. I changed the stability_glue value for Msand and Mgravel in materials.xml to 40. The materials are still soft, and will slide if you undercut it to much, but it doesn't just fall apart at the first touch anymore. I guess gravel and sand *SHOULD* fall apart at the first touch, but it just isn't fun to deal with. And I play to have fun.

 

- P

[PPanda0421]

Thanks for the good ideas guys. What I did was that I found the highest 'point' of the gravel area and just mined downwards starting from that point. It's similar to storm6436's idea except I didn't do a single wide tunnel and I only dig when its necessary, not removing all blocks. Worked pretty well as I'm not exposed to the surface and didn't have to waste frames for support. This was in the forest biome. I have yet to try it in desert biome but I have a feeling I'd have to do support there as there aren't any stone blocks for support.

 

@pahbi Your change sounds promising. I'll have to compare the 16.4 materials.xml file with the 17e version and see if those values are different. According to what TFP staff said (forgot which thread it was) they only changed the ore indicator by adding boulders. I'm wondering if the height reduction of bedrock to +3 is what's causing this issue.

[storm6436]

Yeah, the single-wide comment isn't quite accurate. You end up going more vertical than anything else, with the single-wide horizontals serving to minimize the amount of stuff you can accidentally collapse until you find the "ceiling" as it were. First thing I ended up doing once I found the top was to clear a 5x5 area at the top, shave it down to bedrock, and put wood frames in the corners (didn't have enough iron for trussing blocks, but I've set it up to where I can replace the frame supports with trussing when I get there.

 

Now, my sample size is relatively small but this has been consistent: Every gravel column I've found and started excavating seems to have all different types of our distributed throughout it (to be fair, I haven't found coal, but I also haven't completely excavated a gravel column yet so I figure this might still hold) ... but the various ores show up in zones... like there's a predetermined RxSxT block in the gravel column where you'll find only a certain ore. The current column I'm chewing apart was primarily nitrates where I found it at ground level, but farther back as you go up it swapped to lead and then to iron before ending in stone. An exploratory side-dig I did from the middle of the iron area turned from iron into lead and after 20 some odd blocks back into iron again. Anyone notice a similar pattern or zoning at least?