The gameplay is broken ...

[Benjiro]

This is a continuation on a few topic here with people complaining.

 

The main focus for me was ... Building, survival, build my own stuff ( with combination of looted resources ), kill zombies only if needed. A16 was my personally most dislike Alpha. A17 just topped that a lot.

 

Game play:

 

The game play has changed so much.

 

Now you see people like this: "Do not kill the screamer, let her scream more zombies in". When in the past, you rush out to kill a screamer as fast as possible because you did NOT want it to scream. Now people WANT screamers because it generates the XP Pinatas. How f*cked up is that?!

 

I see no reason to even get a level 20 forge because its simply easier to do quests, get a reward, repair, sell to trader. Buy what i need.

 

The entire game mechanics is simply broken in favor of one game style. Some people like this hunter/trader play style but you do not need a voxel based game where you can build massive building for that.

 

Even if the developers reduce the Zombie XP and increase harvesting XP, your still going to be WAY faster just zombie killing thanks to the stamina drain on harvesting.

 

Weapons / Tools:

 

Hell, it even feels people are less adventures with their tools/weapons. In the past you cared a lot for your 300 or 400 level tools or weapon. Finding a high level weapon iron or steel tool was important because of the damage / harvesting capacity.

 

Now very few people give a darn for finding a level 3, 4 or 5 weapon / tool. The mod slots are simply not providing the value that people seek. Mostly because finding good mods are rare, nobody gives a xxx about color dye mods that make your tools look ugly.

 

Getting weapons now is so easy, its a joke. A few POIs, a few quests and you have a dozen weapons from shotguns to snipers on day 10. Go to the trader and you got every tool you need.

 

POI:

 

Broken POIs are also not helpful. After you see one POI, you have seen them all. You already know that the floors are going to give away. You already know that in the attic or toilet or behind cabinets you are going to get hidden zombies ( a lot in unrealistic placements ).

 

Even worse if you clean out a POI and then do the quest. Kage ran into that issue. Free reset for double loot ( inc workbench or chem station or ... change to be fixed ).

 

Oooo ... open loot in range. Yep, let me guess, feral / radiated / cops / soldier zombie around here somewhere hiding? What a surprise.

 

The POIs feel lazy... Yes, people put a lot of time into building them but they all have the same feel. POI, expect a dozen or more zombies, some hidden, some in hidden attic space, some in basements waiting for the floor to cave in. *snooze* ...

 

The challenge goes away very fast because you always know a POI is going to have a minimum of 10 zombies. There is no suspense when every room has a zombie or two or three or four. Quantity of zombies does not mean quality. I remember a dev saying that your looking at minimum 7 zombies for a POI.

 

It feels more like POIs are more about being time-sinks then anything else. And because of the lack of mid to high content, your rewards tend to get repetitive very, VERY fast. Weapon, Weapon, ammo, RPG, Weapon, ...

 

Broken:

 

The game is really broken because it has become pure about the XP and perks. The content has becomes even less interesting. And the lack of new content only made that worse.

 

I am not saying that A15 was a miracle of greatness. It also had issues but the moment we moved to A16, you clearly notice how the game changed. In what direction the game was going. A17 only continued that direction of a more "Shooter" focus.

 

Screw survival, A17 survival is now more like a drag then a feeling of necessity. Basic mods like Starvation etc gave you really more the feeling of survival when it came to food etc. Now because your almost forced to spend most of your days outside hunting Zombies, you also hunt more animals = more food = ...

 

Yes, some people love this gameplay because it feeds into people there inherent feeling of addiction. XP = Perks = Dopamine rush. We all have been trained by games to feel this way. But 7D2D was not like that. You still had the rush of finding a good weapon or tool but it felt more like "how lucky", not you grinding your way towards that rush.

 

Crafting:

 

It feels more broken then before.

 

Now you need to dig up half football fields for dirt because clay patches are gone. So smart people try to combine hidden treasure quests with there digging. But if you have none, its fun fun digging times.

 

Everything crafting now feels more of a time sinks then before. But not in the good way. Upgrading has become a bugger without high level tools. Hello trader! Forget about looting, trader to the rescue again.

 

Frankly, the traders have become overpowered and help to break the whole looting aspect.

 

Mining in the night has become useless because the resources you find underground are harder to find then before. A lot more random hordes also do not help. Simple go to the trader for a lot of your resources! Win win ... Run between traders, XP kill zombies, Level, get your goods.

 

Why even bother harvesting, when all the focus simply becomes quest or POIs with high trade goods. All your doing with harvesting is handicapping yourself. The dead penalty is so weak anyway, your just better off dying. It resets your game stage lower, you do not care for X time lost skills. So it actually encourages Zombie hunting even more.

 

Experimental:

 

People will tell me how its only experimental, you know, experimental after the alpha game was in development for 16+ months.

 

The problem is, a lot of these issues are not something you can solve. A lot are now pure core design issues. You can tweak by changing loots tables, XP gain but the core designs like weapon parts, skill gains, weapon/tools levels/damages are all stripped out of the game. The POIs have been designed, they are not going to change the POIs to be more realistic. It will always be zombie dungeons.

 

I am not even mentioning other features that have been stripped a long time from the game. Caves for one...

 

Sorry to say this but whoever was play testing A17 at the devs, really are much more into Shooters type of gameplay, then actual builders/survival. Its a shame what the game has become and how we know the Devs are not going to change direction anymore. This is what 7D2D is now.

 

It feels like the game has become even more "suspend' of disbelieve the before. The whole Zombie bosses at the end of Dungeons are only going to enforce this even more.

 

I am sure some people are very happy with this game play but i frankly, i am disappointed with how the game changed. All i wanted was more A15 + AI improvements + Electricity expanded and more mid to late content. Sleepers, sure, if they worked like originally advertised. A few sleepers in every house, a mix of dead bodies and sleepers to keep you on your tows. It feels like the devs had a new game mechanism and did not know how to stop themselves from misusing it to turn every house into a zombie mini horde.

 

It feels like so much time has been wasted on A17 Experimental with so many rewrites ... 7D2D is like Fallout 76, its looks like 7D2D but but it does not feel like 7D2D anymore.

[RestInPieces]

Now you see people like this: "Do not kill the screamer, let her scream more zombies in". When in the past, you rush out to kill a screamer as fast as possible because you did NOT want it to scream. Now people WANT screamers because it generates the XP Pinatas. How f*cked up is that?!

 

It is definitely something that shouldn't happen. But that was also the case in A16-. Since zombie xp was introduced, not much has changed, only that it's even more compelling now because people try to reach the level gates. RPG elements should be complementary, not the goal.

 

I see no reason to even get a level 20 forge because its simply easier to do quests, get a reward, repair, sell to trader. Buy what i need.

 

At the moment yes. From what I've understood, they are working on that.

 

Even if the developers reduce the Zombie XP and increase harvesting XP, your still going to be WAY faster just zombie killing thanks to the stamina drain on harvesting.

 

Depends on the balancing. Don't forget that killing zombies has a risk or cost to it.

 

Hell, it even feels people are less adventures with their tools/weapons. In the past you cared a lot for your 300 or 400 level tools or weapon. Finding a high level weapon iron or steel tool was important because of the damage / harvesting capacity.

 

Agree that the mod capacity & durability are not enough. Would also like some increase in effectiveness.

 

Getting weapons now is so easy, its a joke. A few POIs, a few quests and you have a dozen weapons from shotguns to snipers on day 10. Go to the trader and you got every tool you need.

 

They are working on the traders atm, but I agree that they must revisit the loot lists as well. Weapons/good items are way too abundant.

 

Broken POIs are also not helpful. After you see one POI, you have seen them all. You already know that the floors are going to give away. You already know that in the attic or toilet or behind cabinets you are going to get hidden zombies ( a lot in unrealistic placements ).

 

A factor of randomness is obviously needed here.

 

Oooo ... open loot in range. Yep, let me guess, feral / radiated / cops / soldier zombie around here somewhere hiding? What a surprise.

 

Hopefully, with a factor of randomness in POI spawns and revisited loot lists, dungeon POIs will feel less like "dungeons" and more like natural POIs. They have done a good job with POI design though.

 

It also had issues but the moment we moved to A16, you clearly notice how the game changed. In what direction the game was going. A17 only continued that direction of a more "Shooter" focus.

 

Screw survival, A17 survival is now more like a drag then a feeling of necessity. Basic mods like Starvation etc gave you really more the feeling of survival when it came to food etc. Now because your almost forced to spend most of your days outside hunting Zombies, you also hunt more animals = more food = ...

 

I agree that Starvation mod was pretty much on the spot (spoilage is needed in the game), but you can't be serious that A16 was more of a survival than A17. Dying has consequences and it's not beneficial at last, eating/drinking are more necessary, stamina is now an issue, status effects are more impactful.

 

 

Win win ... Run between traders, XP kill zombies, Level, get your goods. Why even bother harvesting, when all the focus simply becomes quest or POIs with high trade goods. All your doing with harvesting is handicapping yourself. The dead penalty is so weak anyway, your just better off dying. It resets your game stage lower, you do not care for X time lost skills. So it actually encourages Zombie hunting even more.

 

Not if zombie xp and traders are properly balanced, which hopefully, they will.

[Kam R.]

I love how "XP pinata" has become a recognized term already. I do not love the reasons for its existence though.

[wildaxeman1]

i completly agree with z kill xp compared to other actions. that will go down for sure. but hopefully not as it was in a16, when you get 4 levels per night by digging sand.

rest of Benjiro thoughts i do not agree or at least not fully agree. you never can get all your needs covered by trader. you need to sell something to get tokens. you need forge and workstations for everything. you need building materials, so you can build awesome bases. you need to get top tier tools and weapons to maximize output (more better mods) etc etc. there is so much to do and so many different ways to beat the game.

[paulatcellan]

This is a continuation on a few topic here with people complaining.

 

The main focus for me was ... Building, survival, build my own stuff ( with combination of looted resources ), kill zombies only if needed. A16 was my personally most dislike Alpha. A17 just topped that a lot.

 

Game play:

 

The game play has changed so much.

 

Now you see people like this: "Do not kill the screamer, let her scream more zombies in". When in the past, you rush out to kill a screamer as fast as possible because you did NOT want it to scream. Now people WANT screamers because it generates the XP Pinatas. How f*cked up is that?!

 

I see no reason to even get a level 20 forge because its simply easier to do quests, get a reward, repair, sell to trader. Buy what i need.

 

The entire game mechanics is simply broken in favor of one game style. Some people like this hunter/trader play style but you do not need a voxel based game where you can build massive building for that.

 

Even if the developers reduce the Zombie XP and increase harvesting XP, your still going to be WAY faster just zombie killing thanks to the stamina drain on harvesting.

 

Weapons / Tools:

 

Hell, it even feels people are less adventures with their tools/weapons. In the past you cared a lot for your 300 or 400 level tools or weapon. Finding a high level weapon iron or steel tool was important because of the damage / harvesting capacity.

 

Now very few people give a darn for finding a level 3, 4 or 5 weapon / tool. The mod slots are simply not providing the value that people seek. Mostly because finding good mods are rare, nobody gives a xxx about color dye mods that make your tools look ugly.

 

Getting weapons now is so easy, its a joke. A few POIs, a few quests and you have a dozen weapons from shotguns to snipers on day 10. Go to the trader and you got every tool you need.

 

POI:

 

Broken POIs are also not helpful. After you see one POI, you have seen them all. You already know that the floors are going to give away. You already know that in the attic or toilet or behind cabinets you are going to get hidden zombies ( a lot in unrealistic placements ).

 

Even worse if you clean out a POI and then do the quest. Kage ran into that issue. Free reset for double loot ( inc workbench or chem station or ... change to be fixed ).

 

Oooo ... open loot in range. Yep, let me guess, feral / radiated / cops / soldier zombie around here somewhere hiding? What a surprise.

 

The POIs feel lazy... Yes, people put a lot of time into building them but they all have the same feel. POI, expect a dozen or more zombies, some hidden, some in hidden attic space, some in basements waiting for the floor to cave in. *snooze* ...

 

The challenge goes away very fast because you always know a POI is going to have a minimum of 10 zombies. There is no suspense when every room has a zombie or two or three or four. Quantity of zombies does not mean quality. I remember a dev saying that your looking at minimum 7 zombies for a POI.

 

It feels more like POIs are more about being time-sinks then anything else. And because of the lack of mid to high content, your rewards tend to get repetitive very, VERY fast. Weapon, Weapon, ammo, RPG, Weapon, ...

 

Broken:

 

The game is really broken because it has become pure about the XP and perks. The content has becomes even less interesting. And the lack of new content only made that worse.

 

I am not saying that A15 was a miracle of greatness. It also had issues but the moment we moved to A16, you clearly notice how the game changed. In what direction the game was going. A17 only continued that direction of a more "Shooter" focus.

 

Screw survival, A17 survival is now more like a drag then a feeling of necessity. Basic mods like Starvation etc gave you really more the feeling of survival when it came to food etc. Now because your almost forced to spend most of your days outside hunting Zombies, you also hunt more animals = more food = ...

 

Yes, some people love this gameplay because it feeds into people there inherent feeling of addiction. XP = Perks = Dopamine rush. We all have been trained by games to feel this way. But 7D2D was not like that. You still had the rush of finding a good weapon or tool but it felt more like "how lucky", not you grinding your way towards that rush.

 

Crafting:

 

It feels more broken then before.

 

Now you need to dig up half football fields for dirt because clay patches are gone. So smart people try to combine hidden treasure quests with there digging. But if you have none, its fun fun digging times.

 

Everything crafting now feels more of a time sinks then before. But not in the good way. Upgrading has become a bugger without high level tools. Hello trader! Forget about looting, trader to the rescue again.

 

Frankly, the traders have become overpowered and help to break the whole looting aspect.

 

Mining in the night has become useless because the resources you find underground are harder to find then before. A lot more random hordes also do not help. Simple go to the trader for a lot of your resources! Win win ... Run between traders, XP kill zombies, Level, get your goods.

 

Why even bother harvesting, when all the focus simply becomes quest or POIs with high trade goods. All your doing with harvesting is handicapping yourself. The dead penalty is so weak anyway, your just better off dying. It resets your game stage lower, you do not care for X time lost skills. So it actually encourages Zombie hunting even more.

 

Experimental:

 

People will tell me how its only experimental, you know, experimental after the alpha game was in development for 16+ months.

 

The problem is, a lot of these issues are not something you can solve. A lot are now pure core design issues. You can tweak by changing loots tables, XP gain but the core designs like weapon parts, skill gains, weapon/tools levels/damages are all stripped out of the game. The POIs have been designed, they are not going to change the POIs to be more realistic. It will always be zombie dungeons.

 

I am not even mentioning other features that have been stripped a long time from the game. Caves for one...

 

Sorry to say this but whoever was play testing A17 at the devs, really are much more into Shooters type of gameplay, then actual builders/survival. Its a shame what the game has become and how we know the Devs are not going to change direction anymore. This is what 7D2D is now.

 

It feels like the game has become even more "suspend' of disbelieve the before. The whole Zombie bosses at the end of Dungeons are only going to enforce this even more.

 

I am sure some people are very happy with this game play but i frankly, i am disappointed with how the game changed. All i wanted was more A15 + AI improvements + Electricity expanded and more mid to late content. Sleepers, sure, if they worked like originally advertised. A few sleepers in every house, a mix of dead bodies and sleepers to keep you on your tows. It feels like the devs had a new game mechanism and did not know how to stop themselves from misusing it to turn every house into a zombie mini horde.

 

It feels like so much time has been wasted on A17 Experimental with so many rewrites ... 7D2D is like Fallout 76, its looks like 7D2D but but it does not feel like 7D2D anymore.

 

I agree with every word. This game sucks now. I feal like I would be better off going back to A16.4

[HungryZombie]

Fair enough. I think enough people do like the direction of the game that you are going to have a hard time convincing TFP's to change.

[Ghostlight]

Er....necro time-travel?

[Luzifer]

Definitly necrotroll. Wheres the mods?

[warmer]

First thing I want to say is, "Don't use absolutes like 'The gameplay is broken'"

 

It isn't broken, it is different. It is hard to take someone seriously when they use such a broad blanket description of something. I am sure most of these posts are automatically ignored by the devs do to the nature of the subject line.

 

"Hey guys we just released the new Alpha, be prepared to ignore all the 'gameplay sucks now posts' because people can't handle change."

 

As someone that has been playing every release since A6, A18 is by far the most "balanced" build by a LONGSHOT. SP is actually viable again. I can understand you have quite a few concerns, but you do realize the majority of your issues can be solved with in game options right?

 

I spent about 60 hours playing Rust while waiting for A18 to drop and I can tell you that 7D2D is such a superiour game in the sense of randomized "possibility" vs. such a static world like RUST. Granted they are two very different games, but both use a RWG, but unlike 7D2D, Rust has a handful of POI were as 7D2D has well over 100. You have seen 1, you have seen 1 in 100 POI. They aren't remotely all the same.

 

What TFP are aiming for is a balanced game in terms of less ability to cheese the game. What I feel a lot of your complaints stem from are the balancing aspects to ensure multiple play styles are viable now.

 

With EVERY release, you have to re-think your strategy. A18 is no different. And guess what! A19 will be as well. Get used to big change. It is going to keep on happening until Beta.

 

Meanwhile, Right click on your 7D2D in steam > properties > Betas

 

Now you can download whatever version of 7D2D makes you personally happy to play. Here's a screen in case you didn't know how to do that.

 

 

Better yet, take half the time it took to write this rant of a post and edit the XML files to be EXACTLY as you wish it was. Or make your own game...

[grieferbastard]

OP is from december 2018.

 

It has absolutely nothing at all to do with A18.

 

Risk and reward are better balanced now.

 

The game has guns and ammo and traps and all the crafting in the game is largely centered around survival and killing zombies. I don't get why some people want to pretend the game was never about killing zombies and survival. Before you were rewarded more for crafting and avoiding zombies; I get that some people still enjoy that and it's cool but even the original videos from years ago and the actual description of the game make it pretty clear that killing zombies is a big part of the game. That for a couple of iterations at one point risk/reward was horribly unbalanced, zombie AI was terrible (even for brainless zombies) and the game wasn't as advertised but it was what some people enjoyed. That doesn't mean that the single snapshot in question is what the game was supposed to be.

 

A year from now it'll be different again. However I don't think it's unreasonable to say that there will be a focus on risk/reward and killing zombies, hence, you know. All the guns. Bombs. Traps. Vast majority of games content.

[warmer]

Well geez why is this ANCIENT post being resurrected. I made the dumb mistake of assuming it was current.

 

One more reason to use a more descriptive subject line.

 

All of what I say still stands, minus the reference to the Alpha version. People need to realize this is one of the most customizable AND EASY to customize games out there. If it isn't to your liking, then you need to DL some mods or take 20 min and edit an XML file. It is a lot more effective that griping to the devs. lol

[OzHawkeye]

Letting this tired old thread rest in peace. #NoNecrosNow