Why you broke your game

[bloom_meister]

So every time any one of the many players give negative feedback on here they get called emotional, aggressive, combative, are told they dont know the game, are playing it wrongly or that its alpha and any of a multitude of other reasons why their feedback is not wanted or wrong.

 

So here is some factual feedback for you.

 

1. Tools

 

Previously a player could find, make or buy, tools of different levels of quality, this is a fact

Previously a player would progress from poor quality tool to eventually Q600 steel tools, this gave a long progression curve and every time the player found, or bought or made a better tool they progressed, this progression was satisfying.

 

The new tool system means the grey fireaxe does the same damage as the purple fireaxe, sure the better quality ones have more mod slots but more are hard to come by and are random in what you find. Other than durability there is zero reason to want a better tool than the one you find in a random container on day 1, this damages the players sense of accomplishment because their progression is extremely limited.

 

2. Guns

 

Previously a player could find, make or buy weapons and weapon parts from Q1 to Q600. In order to put a weapon together or disssemble it you needed to find instructions on how to do it (schematics). When you found a new part or gun that was better than your current one you progressed, this was satisfying.

 

Now the gun thats level 1 and grey that you find one day 1 does the same damage as a level six purple one, it has less mod slots but again finding mods and or schematics to use/make mods is random and rare and cannot be counted on therefore you have no incentive to try and find better guns and the fun you had from continually working towards a high quality gun is totally gone

 

3. Armour

 

Same argument as for guns and tool, you took away the progression

 

4. Exploration

 

Many players like to explore the world, finding new places is fun, discovering new towns and cities is fun, some players like to build far out in the sticks, some like to find the 'perfect' spot for their base, this is fun to many players.

 

A combination of massively nerfing stamina usage and regen PLUS the removal of all the useful stamina drinks and the mass nerfing of coffee and beer means that you cannot now run more than about 100m without being out of stamina and having to rest constantly, this is not fun.

 

You have massively nerfed exploration and taken away that choice of gamestyle

 

5. Claim stones

 

You have limited all players to one claim stone and therefore hurt both you pve and pvp playerbase because now the players who like to build large elaborate bases cannot do so anymore because other players can destroy and grief them. You have also massively negated the usefulness of claim stones because only having one it is trivial for an enemy (pve or pvp) to count out the location of that claim stone and easily remove it.

 

This change takes away one of the biggest fun elements (large scale building) from the game

 

6. Zombie damage

 

You have greatly increased the damage zombies do to blocks and this combined with their changed AI means that even a reinforced concrete base is useless against a horde, they just chew right through it. This invalidates the desire for a player to spend a lot of time building a base when they know the zombies will just chew it up

 

This change greatly reduces the base building aspect of the game

 

7. Digging zombies

 

Many players of all types preferred to choose when and how they fought zombies, by some players building underground they gave themselves choices on how they played that did not, ever and in any way, affect other players, by making zombies magically know you are hiding at bedrock you took away this play option completely

 

8. Bedrock depth

 

Many players liked to build huge bases surrounded by moats at bedrock and then filled in these moats with spikes knowing that the fall would kill most (not all) zombies. These bases took enormous time and effort to construct and the sense of achievement when finishing them and having excellent defenses was a source of pride for many players. By nerfing bedrock depth severely and reducing fall damage to zombies you have remove this playstyle option for players and removed the players choice on how to protect themselves

 

9. Level gating perks

 

No objection to the perk system itself however it is gated by having to spend points to buy them, it is further gated because you have to buy the points in a perk tree in sequential order. To then add completely arbitrary level gates to this totally removes the players choices for specialisation and it is a punative and deliberate blatant ploy to slow the player down

 

In A16 you could and players did, choose to specialise, you have removed this from the game

 

10. Death penalty

 

Previously the penalty for death was reduced health and the run to get your bag back, I dont recall anyone complaining about this and it was well balanced. Now, even after your partial reduction of the death timer debuff the players are horribly punished for dying and this in a game which has many situations seemingly devised to give you no chance to live (traps in POI's, random dog or wolf hordes popping next to you, ferals on day etc etc)

 

This punishment is over harsh and discouraging and demotivates players from playing.

 

In summary you have removed the choices of players in many areas, you have removed the base building, the choices players made in how to fight, their ability to fight, their ability to be creative with large bases, their sense of progression in many many areas and increased the grind by (subjectively in my opinion) about 300%.

 

You have done with at the same time as adding precisely one end game item (Jeep) which many players wont even bother with. You did not add legendary weapons or armour or tools, you did not add bandits, you did not enhance electricity.

 

You have ruined the fun element of your game for a large proportion of your playerbase, I have 53 friends on steam who used to play 7dtd, this week i saw 'one' of them playing and when i asked around they all told me it was broken and grindy and just no fun anymore.

[R0bb0b]

It's unfortunate that a team of developers, with whom I have a lot of respect for, cannot figure out how to add to the challenge of the game and how to optimize the game without nerfing the hell out of it.

[lazyknob]

I've been very curious over certain 'dumb-arse' changes which developers make. Just what went on in their heads to think, hey we should do this and then roll it out.

 

To the players it was an obviously stupid move. Now this isn't pointing at anything in particular. Just a very common... occurence these days. *Looks at Blizzard and Bethesda*

[Edem_Alive]

All mostly valid points. Wasn't aware of the bedrock depth change.

[OzHawkeye]

So every time any one of the many players give negative feedback on here they get called emotional, aggressive, combative, are told they dont know the game, are playing it wrongly or that its alpha and any of a multitude of other reasons why their feedback is not wanted or wrong.

 

Ok, this bit I just flat out disagree with. SOME people do give good constructive feedback, and I've not seen that decried like you're asserting.

 

Points 1, 2 and 3, I do agree with do a certain extent, though hopefully this will be mitigated by the addition of more useful mods, so that the extra mod slots carry greater meaning.

 

Point 4, I think is really only an issue in the early game - you do pretty quickly overcome it.

 

Point 5 - no argument. I ought to be configurable I think.

 

Point 6 I more or less agree with, though I think the issue is more that zombies all focus fire now, rather than their innate damage rating.

 

Point 7 I'd like to see become a configurable option like Point 5, for those that want the invulnerable underground base.

 

Point 8, yes, bedrock should be deep.

 

Point 9, I'm not a fan of level gates just personally. I'll be modding them out of my stable game.

 

Point 10 I disagree with, but TFP has already moved to reduce it to 30 minutes.

[Vomkat]

I agree with most of their changes. I'm glad to see they are acting to nerf the OP players, and think those of you who are upset are just whining. If you want to build an invincible base, just mod it. Take out the zombies entirely. I've always had an issue with zombies being able to move through concrete, but I also have an issue with the player being able to produce concrete. I will mod it so neither the player nor the zombies can punch through concrete, nor can they make a concrete wall.

 

The yapping about grey vs purple quality is just annoying. Oh yah, in real life, a purple shotgun does so much more damage than a grey shotgun. Sure. I bet you'll tell me next that most players liked digging all the way down to bedrock. Sure.

 

Crying about balance issues in an experimental build of an alpha? Shame on you.

 

My hats off to the developers, who made a comprehensive effort to improve the game. Good job guys, I hope you keep working on this. My primary issue with this game has always been that it's too easy to just build an underground base and get infinite wealth and maximum skills simply by digging. I'm glad that someone decided to nerf the mole people.

[Viktoriusiii]

Agree with 1-6 disagree with 7-10

 

7. it DID effect other players. Because I knew for a fact, that if I build underground, I'm 100% safe, that took away my sense of tension. Maybe they should implement either an option (digging yes/no) or implement an "easy" setup for those not willing to fight the horde.

But overall I feel this is justified. Its a survivalgame after all, not a "I survive whenever I want". If you just wanna build, head on over in creative. I know its mean, but it DOES effect others! And not by a small margin! Sorry.

 

8. Moats were a bit too strong and too "ever lasting" and you can still do them by simply raising your base up, which takes even more time, but it still works

 

9. I have no idea how ANYONE can be happy with this, after we had such an intricate system. Even if it was unbalanced, that could have easily been fixed.

 

10.

 

The problem was, that, if you were already at min hp, there was no other penalty. I agree that for hardcore players like me with 190 wellness all the time, death was EVEN WORSE then it is now, but it was at least something to consider. I personally feel it got easier for me now, because I dont have to spend another 5 hours raising my wellness again, but overall I feel 30min death trauma is fine. I would actually add some sort of "semi-permanent"(until you fix it somehow) debuff. Maybe subtract food and water down to 10% each or something.

[Maxwar]

There is a lot of valid criticism that can be done regarding A17, I agree with some parts of what you say but honestly this version of 7dtd is my favourite ever. I just find it more fun. I was not expecting perfect with a17, I was just expecting the game to be better than before and it is by a solid margin imho.

 

It's unfortunate that a team of developers, with whom I have a lot of respect for, cannot figure out how to add to the challenge of the game and how to optimize the game without nerfing the hell out of it.

 

This game needed nerfing overall. It was too easy to be strong and progress was too quick and uneven.

[Zourin]

1. They removed the wild scaling. Instead of Q1-600, they just divided everything by 100 and sunk the difference in effectiveness into the perk and mod system. A Q6 wrench is going to be less useful to a novice than a 'pro', even though both are equally effective on paper.

 

2. Guns are in the same boat. If you find a shotgun, you have a shotgun. Quality isn't going to affect what comes out the other end, character perks and whether the weapon supports modifications will.

 

3. Armor perks are bugged. Again. progression isn't about Q1-Q6, but advancing through material qualities for higher damage reduction. No matter how good you are at stacking cotton, you aren't going to beat kevlar. The quality affects how readily it supports modifications like pockets, additional plating, or more comfortable fitting. A coat is a coat. A coat with twenty pockets is a packrats' dream, even though both are coats.

 

4. Exploration is much more viable with a bicycle. Early on, you're mostly confined to a town near a trader, but that expands once you have time to establish yourself and get your hands on a vehicle. That's when the map can really open up. you aren't expected to run everywhere all the time. Even without it, it's still possible to develop your stamina management to run considerable distances with Rule #1. There are even running shoes in the game that will cut running costs further and let you run for KM's without stopping.

 

5. This game was never focused or balanced around pvp, and probably never will. This isn't a Rust-like. Like with any multiplayer sandbox game, if you don't like strange people pooping in your sandbox, get your own. Further, LCB's never inhibited zombie spawning until this version, and only your most active bedroll would do so in A16. LCB's are just a basic hedge with limited pve functionality for managing expensive placeables.

 

6.Zombies generally do less damage now than in A16, and substantially less block damage individually (they get a gang up bonus, but 'ganging up' should only mean 'molotov bait', unless you wuss out). Zombies no longer have damage bonuses to wood, and mid-tier armor is exceptionally advantageous when clearing POI's. You have further access to Healing Factor, which grows into almost wolverine-level regeneration that can outheal bleeds and mend wounds without medical assistance. If you don't like dying, invest in Fortitude skills; glass cannons don't live long.

 

7. Digging zombies used to be in the game, and now they're back. They're as lazy as the people who dug down six blocks into the stone and waited out horde night. Horde night is meant to be tackled head-on at ground level, and furthermore, do their best to bring that party to you if you wuss out.

 

8. Bedrock is bedrock. If you're complaining where it is, it's always at the bottom of the map. If you're worried how far down it is, you're really not playing the same game as everyone else and should re-evaluate why it should matter at all.

 

9. The level gates are fine, if a bit delayed in the first stretch. Levels come fast and furious and it's not unusual to hit L20 by the end of the first week, which is only 3-4 days behind when we'd normally have a forge to make our own iron tools. What you don't realize is that iron and steel drops are MUCH more common and easy to find due to the abundance of WS crates sprinkled like bae salt in more than half the POI's. Further, you can find iron & steel much easier to repair these tools, or buy iron and steel from the trader. You can have a steel mining pick day 1. Whine about that.

 

10. The death penalty is now fine. It's no longer long-term cripping to die early on as long as you have a bedroll in town. The penalty has been cut back to a fairly reasonable half-day of light work in V208, which certainly is a good reason not to do something dumb like get killed repeatedly. The ONLY difference between the old system and the new is you no longer need to stuff your face full of stew to get your HP and Stam back up, you just have to sit out the penalty period, most of which is probably spent running back to get your stuff while you reevaluate your poor life choices.

[With_Faith]

I am waiting to see what mods get added in the future and hopefully they make up for the differences.

 

Exploration I haven't tried doing too much yet. Though I always did find it entertaining how long in game time it took to travel a km.

 

Only other thing I have to say is that I don't like the 100% perk/trait purchasing. I liked the idea of training up some skills and then putting points to specialize.

 

Overall I am still really excited to see what changes they keep putting out though and have been enjoying the game. Hopefully they find a good balance of changes that keeps the game challenging but lets people keep doing what they love.

[Zourin]

I am waiting to see what mods get added in the future and hopefully they make up for the differences.

 

Exploration I haven't tried doing too much yet. Though I always did find it entertaining how long in game time it took to travel a km.

 

Only other thing I have to say is that I don't like the 100% perk/trait purchasing. I liked the idea of training up some skills and then putting points to specialize.

 

Overall I am still really excited to see what changes they keep putting out though and have been enjoying the game. Hopefully they find a good balance of changes that keeps the game challenging but lets people keep doing what they love.

 

It's really no different. Fortitude and Agility replaced Wellness, level ups come at a pretty fast rate, and you get 5 bonus points for completing the tutorial. There's plenty of ways to specialize, and while I hate to defend the L20 progression step, it does give you time and points to build out the basic skills you see as a priority, whether it's combat, resourcing, stealth, or stamina management, or establish a broader capability for self sufficiency.

 

While a SP character isn't going to be nearly as specialized as a MP one, there are still choices to be made. SP characters are faced with an almost immediate choice: Combat survival or material resourcing. A more combat focused character with a lot of Str, Percep, or Agi is going to have a MUCH easier time in POI's than someone who stacked up points in Motherlode, Pack Mule, and stamina management perks. That same combat character also isn't going to have as easy a time producing the raw materials for base building.. so do you specialize or spread? Offense skills or survivability? Sure, every character is going to want at least an average intelligence for technology access, but how far do you go? Whole hog for a 4x4, or is a bicycle enough to ditch horde night while you explore or head to a mine location?

 

There are no 'mandatory' points to invest like in A16, where you ALWAYS pumped tool quality, weapon quality, armor quality, and stamina skills. Everything else was just fluff. Now, every perk matters, and getting a perk to 3 is often a major boost. Suddenly, Healing Factor goes from passive natural healing into freakish regeneration, and other skills mature with additional bonuses.

[Roland]

So every time any one of the many players give negative feedback on here they get called emotional, aggressive, combative, are told they dont know the game, are playing it wrongly or that its alpha and any of a multitude of other reasons why their feedback is not wanted or wrong.

 

Not every time. There were some great threads of a negative nature that were well received because they were stated matter-of-factly and without insulting accusations. You're off to a bad start on facts if that is indeed the theme of your thread.

 

1-3. Gear

 

Here are some more facts:

 

Old system progression was limited to two parameters: durability and damage. Other than that every shotgun was the same. Every iron armor was the same. Every pistol was the same.

 

Old system created weird player actions where nobody would open crates because they were too low level. If players were playing with higher level friends only the higher level players would be allowed to open chests.

 

Old system made brown and orange level gear completely useless and shunned.

 

New system makes all base gear the same so brown and orange are basically as useful as the higher tier and don't have to be completely discounted.

 

New system progression adds several parameters to durability and damage. Examples: Rate of fire, accuracy, range, ammo capacity, stamina reduction, special hits like knockdown, stun, and bleed. Through mods all of these paramaters and more can be progressed and you can have two very very different and unique pistols. There is no limit to what the new system will be able to add to gear progression.

 

New system is brand new and in its infancy. More mods will be created.

 

4. Exploration

 

Disagree with your claims that the new stamina and hunger mechanic stifle exploration. If you aren't opposed to drinking drinks to help stamina then you should be opposed to buying some ranks in Agility and also some of the hunger and thirst reduction perks in Fortitude. I run all over the place without any more problem than in previous versions.

 

5. Claim stones

 

Agree. I don't know why the change was made.

 

6-7. Zombie Damage and Digging

 

Disagree. Bases can be built and people can live underground still. Proof is popping up in more and more posts and threads sharing base designs. Underground dwelling is possible-- just not easy and automatically safe.

 

8. Bedrock depth

 

Wasn't aware of this. Not sure what the result will be.

 

9. Level gating perks

 

In A17 I have specialized several times. Sorry, I do not agree that the game prevents one from specializing.

 

10. Death penalty

 

This section was full of opinion rather than fact. Opinions I don't share.

 

 

You have ruined the fun element of your game for a large proportion of your playerbase, I have 53 friends on steam who used to play 7dtd, this week i saw 'one' of them playing and when i asked around they all told me it was broken and grindy and just no fun anymore.

 

There is no way to move forward and make final decisions without disappointing some large proportion of the playerbase. A large proportion of the playerbase is having more fun than ever before. A large proportion of the playerbase is ambivalent about it. The devs make decisions based on their own preferences.

[pApA^LeGBa]

There is no way to move forward and make final decisions without disappointing some large proportion of the playerbase. A large proportion of the playerbase is having more fun than ever before. A large proportion of the playerbase is ambivalent about it. The devs make decisions based on their own preferences.

 

You base this on what happens in this forum. Where not even 0.5% of the playerbase are active. And a large part of the regulars on here have the "Whatever they do is good as long as it´s challenging enough for people with 2k plus hours and modable" mindset.

[wastelandstoic]

Fully agree with OP.

 

You missed one major, common reply always given to this type of player criticism: "mod it out if you don't like it",

it goes both ways. Seems to me the best games are made to attract all types of players --therefore the most amount of players. Mods then would be icing on the cake and extras not needed for standard game play. If you sell a game expecting a large sector of players to mod it so they can play it at all, that's a failure and plenty of players will just take a pass.

[Zourin]

Despite evidence to the contrary, I can't bring myself to admit Roland is correct. Therefore i will not, and instead post my reticence to do so.

[Gamida]

I still don't understand how many feel that people that build underground want to avoid horde nights. I built underground. I came up and explored and looted during the day (sometimes night but not often ). I also came up and fought the horde on horde nights. Sometimes at a friends or community horde base or I would hoof it and melee. I don't get why the thought is we have to turn off zombies and build above ground bases to play the game correctly. I thought the point of the game was you could play it any way you wanted. I know a lot of players make separate bases for horde night now so it doesn't matter if you have your main one underground, on stilts or underwater for that matter. Also if we didn't want to fight the horde it only takes a couple of clicks to log out. Done. More for the rest of you.

[Zourin]

I still don't understand how many feel that people that build underground want to avoid horde nights. I built underground. I came up and explored and looted during the day (sometimes night but not often ). I also came up and fought the horde on horde nights. Sometimes at a friends or community horde base or I would hoof it and melee. I don't get why the thought is we have to turn off zombies and build above ground bases to play the game correctly. I thought the point of the game was you could play it any way you wanted. I know a lot of players make separate bases for horde night now so it doesn't matter if you have your main one underground, on stilts or underwater for that matter. Also if we didn't want to fight the horde it only takes a couple of clicks to log out. Done. More for the rest of you.

 

There are alternatives that require less labor. you only need a 7-block buffer to prevent passing zombies from hearing most normal noises from inside a base, 14 if you're banging around metal doors and containers. If you pick a reasonable POI, that is not huge, you can put up a perimeter wall, and tall POI's like apartment buildings are far enough off the ground you get that buffer too.

 

I used to build stilt-bases way back in A9 when BM hordes were essentially infinite and there wasn't any point in trying to fight a battle you can't win. a16 made it 'kinda sorta' possible to win, but you always had one zombie running around 'till dawn, so you never got cut a break. With resourcing being harder, I gave up building my own base in favor of taking over a POI for the stronger structure. The only difference, after all, between a 2nd-floor POI base and a custom stilt base is the POI comes pre-resourced, pre-built, and comes with a LOT more pillars/structural integrity. This also meant needing a perimeter wall to keep Z's out of earshot. The drawback: sleepers inside your base if you moved your bedroll.

[Gipothegip]

1, 2, and 3 - I'm not against the new quality system, however I feel like there are a lack of mods, especially when the game gives one so many slots. If modifications had a bigger role and were more common, then I think quality would be more worthwhile beyond durability.

 

4 - I personally haven't felt this is a major issue. Stamina, cardio, and avoiding encumbrance are your friend. Hunger reduction helps too. Coffee isn't utterly useless either, though I don't understand the extensive nerf.

 

5 - I haven't really played multiplayer in a long time, so I have no comment.

 

6 - Agreed, from what I've seen they are complete bulldozers now.

 

7 - I don't have much of an opinion, other than it was arguably imbalanced to be completely safe like that.

 

8 - I agree, I never did this myself but I feel it is a valid strategy given the amount of work needed.

 

9 - I'm not completely against the gating, the game has to have some sort of pacing and a way to do so. However, what we have now doesn't feel fluid, it's like you're hitting a very obvious roadblock and this kills the progression.

 

10 - I don't have much experience with this.

 

 

I haven't played a ton of the experimental though, so it's just my early impressions.

[Skipio]

Crying about balance issues in an experimental build of an alpha? Shame on you.

 

I think this argument - which I’ve heard from others - is missing the whole point of experimental! This is EXACTLY the right time to cry about balance issues!

 

TFP are actively looking for this sort of feedback now (or if they aren’t, they’re missing a trick). Experimental is the time when systems are being tuned. Stable is the time when “no one complained about it during experimental, so just suck it up”.

[Bhaaltazar]

I agree with most of their changes. I'm glad to see they are acting to nerf the OP players, and think those of you who are upset are just whining. If you want to build an invincible base, just mod it. Take out the zombies entirely. I've always had an issue with zombies being able to move through concrete, but I also have an issue with the player being able to produce concrete. I will mod it so neither the player nor the zombies can punch through concrete, nor can they make a concrete wall.

 

The yapping about grey vs purple quality is just annoying. Oh yah, in real life, a purple shotgun does so much more damage than a grey shotgun. Sure. I bet you'll tell me next that most players liked digging all the way down to bedrock. Sure.

 

Crying about balance issues in an experimental build of an alpha? Shame on you.

 

My hats off to the developers, who made a comprehensive effort to improve the game. Good job guys, I hope you keep working on this. My primary issue with this game has always been that it's too easy to just build an underground base and get infinite wealth and maximum skills simply by digging. I'm glad that someone decided to nerf the mole people.

 

Couldn't say it better myself. So many whiners with these threads where did go my invincible bases and gear.

 

And yes steel axe from Walmart would do more damage than axe from dunno guy who bought steel pickaxe from local hardware store. Yes some sharpen it, make some customization with its grip, put on stickers and whatnot... but that doesn't mean they will chop the tree down in one swing :DD. I mean piece of steel does the same damage IRL doesnt matter how you put it. So better quality items now will have more slots for mods inside ( scopes, silencers, muzzles, sharpness....) I love these changes.

 

But skill of user DOES matter. So hardy miner does know how to use his pickaxe much better than I do I m sure. Same goes for lumberjacks compared to me, soliders shoots better than I do. But we both use pretty much the same tools and weapons.

 

Going to bookstores now makes sense now. Before you went to couple of bookstore so you found that skillbook you needed and than never ever went there again. Now you must make plan on how to use skills - is it really wise to invest a skillpoint into forge for example or rather use a book that you found and invest that skill point into something else that u need more at the moment.

 

Yes there has to be more tweaking and polishing and balancing... but I think game is heading in the right direction.

[crazywildfire]

I think this argument - which I’ve heard from others - is missing the whole point of experimental! This is EXACTLY the right time to cry about balance issues!

 

TFP are actively looking for this sort of feedback now (or if they aren’t, they’re missing a trick). Experimental is the time when systems are being tuned. Stable is the time when “no one complained about it during experimental, so just suck it up”.

 

 

This is the time to talk about balancing not cry about it. I have seen post in threads cry to a degree of how tfp should be ashamed or how dare them not have it right and perfect. It is experimental and not going to be perfect or balanced to the tee and if one can't talk about it and feels they need to bash tfp about it then that is the difference.

[Vomkat]

This is the worst time to talk about balancing, because a lot of the final settings can and are going to be changed at the last moment. They are easy to change, and have nothing to do with the underlying code. You guys don't understand the programming process. Experimental means they are looking for BUGS, this is not a gameplay balance experiment.

[crazywildfire]

This is the worst time to talk about balancing, because a lot of the final settings can and are going to be changed at the last moment. They are easy to change, and have nothing to do with the underlying code. You guys don't understand the programming process. Experimental means they are looking for BUGS, this is not a gameplay balance experiment.

 

That is why they have a bug section for that. This is general discussion. So yes one can freely talk about what they feel could use work. For example not that I agree it should of been turned down to 30 minutes as I personally felt one hour was fine for the dp but they made a adjustment because of some feedback from here while they was working on the bugs.

[Vomkat]

You can freely talk about whatever you want. Other people will tell you to quit crying and shut your yap. Nothing worse than seeing a forum full of whiny threads where someone is complaining about how terrible the game is now because of this latest unbalanced OPTIONAL EXPERIMENTAL ALPHA. Yah, they totally broke the game, it's never ever ever gonna work ever again. 7 Days to Die is dead now.

[crazywildfire]

You can freely talk about whatever you want. Other people will tell you to quit crying and shut your yap. Nothing worse than seeing a forum full of whiny threads where someone is complaining about how terrible the game is now because of this latest unbalanced OPTIONAL EXPERIMENTAL ALPHA. Yah, they totally broke the game, it's never ever ever gonna work ever again. 7 Days to Die is dead now.

 

Those are the differences. If you come across saying they broke the game or how it it is terrible now then yes I would say that is crying. If you come across to talk about how you feel it can be improved and how this or that would be more balancing then I would say that is good feedback regardless if someone else agrees or not.

 

If you put someone talking about a change and someone crying about it in the same category then I don't know what to tell you besides we will just have to agree to disagree at that point.