gamestage and progression, punative to crafters for no reason

[WolfyBlah]

So from everything i have seen, read and experianaced in a17... the bloody hell is with this punative attitude towards players that enjoy the building and crafting aspect of the game rather than the (IMO lackluster) combat? If i want to mindlesdly kill zombies killing floor exsists and is a much better FPS/horde game

 

To make this clearer if you wish to craft your own tools (forge) you must grind your way past the level gate to do so, but doing so will also sky rocket your gamestage and make much tougher and higher tier zombies appear, so then the price of making a forge for crafting your own tools is not only hours (not an exaggeration, literal hours) of grinding zombies for xp, alongside the resource cost to make and use the forge but also being punished by having a harder gameplay experience.

 

Its frankly asinine, you can find a iron tool on day 1 as loot at no cost but if you want to actually craft the thing you have hours of grinding and end up with stupidly tough zombies spawning as a result.... why?

 

As it stands i wont be playing anymore a17, 18 or release if this attitude of 'punish those who do not play the game in xyz fashion' continues. looks like a heavily modded version of 16.4 is the best the game is going to get for me and thats a real shame.

 

This game has changed a hell of a lot from what i originally purchased in A9 and i feel almost as if iv been the victim of a bait and switch and had i had a hint of how the games systems would have developed i never would have purchased the game.

(Harvest system, streamlining or dumbing down of systems in general, lack of player choice, grindy mechanics to stretch the exsisting content instead of new content)

[beHypE]

This is offtopic but you clearly hurt yourself and your credibility everytime you feel the urge to add something along the lines of "I won't play anymore if this is still a thing". I see it so often, you're the one that gets my reaction, sorry for that. But seriously start considering what those kind of sentences trigger to whoever reads you. Hint : it's nothing close to "oh my god no, we'll revert everything so you stay !".

 

Regarding the zombie killing experience, it's a WIP, they will reduce the exp you gain from zombies and increase the exp you gain from doing other stuff.

I'm also a bit disappointed about the new content, specifically end game content (was eagerly awaiting bandits), but stretching early game is something good in a survival game. You're just not used to it, and maybe it got a bit "overdone". But there's not a single game out there that brands itself as a "survival game" where you run around with iron tools and build huge castles day 1, for a reason.

[RestInPieces]

Zombie xp will be toned down so that it's not by far the most viable way to level up.

Question - do you only enjoy the building and crafting aspect of the game?

[WolfyBlah]

If you view that as a negative to my credibility then thats your perogative, despite the fact that i didnt say 'i wont play anymore' i infact said i wont be playing the newer updates, two very diffrent things from where i stand.

 

As far as balancing the XP gain... its completely irrelevant, if zombies give less exp than digging then i would dig to grind past the level gate... the issue is the gate exsisting in the first place and how unbalanced it is.. if a fire axe couldnt be found as loot until you can craft them that changes things completely, as it stands now its punishing to one style of gameplay for seemingly no reason.

[WolfyBlah]

Zombie xp will be toned down so that it's not by far the most viable way to level up.

Question - do you only enjoy the building and crafting aspect of the game?

 

I dont *only* enjoy building, i enjoy looting and scavanging and fighting too but in a very limited ammount and choosing when i do it. But when the building and crafting aspects of the game are so strongly discouraged... the rest of the game is not appealing enough to keep my intrest. The reason i played 7 days instead of somthing like killing floor is BECAUSE of the voxel sandbox elements, the game is simply not a good enough FPS or action game for that to be a reason for me to play

 

Edit- for clarity see my above response about the XP gain being higher from zombies, regardless off the method a player like me is still going to have to grind one way or another to unlock a forge

[Auger]

If you view that as a negative to my credibility then thats your perogative, despite the fact that i didnt say 'i wont play anymore' i infact said i wont be playing the newer updates, two very diffrent things from where i stand.

 

As far as balancing the XP gain... its completely irrelevant, if zombies give less exp than digging then i would dig to grind past the level gate... the issue is the gate exsisting in the first place and how unbalanced it is.. if a fire axe couldnt be found as loot until you can craft them that changes things completely, as it stands now its punishing to one style of gameplay for seemingly no reason.

 

You couldn't make a forge on day one in A16 since you had the skill gate. Don't see your point. It takes about the same amount of grinding to get a forge in A17 as it did in A16.

[WolfyBlah]

You couldn't make a forge on day one in A16 since you had the skill gate. Don't see your point. It takes about the same amount of grinding to get a forge in A17 as it did in A16.

Thats just plain factually incorrect and i frequently had a day 1 forge in a16... are you thinking of an earlier alpha?

[Auger]

Thats just plain factually incorrect and i frequently had a day 1 forge in a16... are you thinking of an earlier alpha?

 

Sorry your right was think that it was tough to get parts for bellow but your correct you could have it day one

[Verne]

In alpha 16 i usually had my first forge like 30 min after starting new world.

Alpha 17? I've got forge at lvl 46 just because i wanted to spawn screamers. Forge is only usefull early in the game (day 1) or after reaching lvl 60 for steel bullets (i think it's lvl 60). It's not hard to have full iron set before end of day one. In current build i found steel axe and chainsaw first day making lvl 20 forge even more useless.

[WolfyBlah]

In alpha 16 i usually had my first forge like 30 min after starting new world.

Alpha 17? I've got forge at lvl 46 just because i wanted to spawn screamers. Forge is only usefull early in the game (day 1) or after reaching lvl 60 for steel bullets (i think it's lvl 60). It's not hard to have full iron set before end of day one. In current build i found steel axe and chainsaw first day making lvl 20 forge even more useless.

 

Sorry to say that you are missing the point, the issue isnt how useful a forge is or even when you get it, its about how punative the current system is to someone who wants to craft thier own tools instead of looting them.

[Jedo]

I found a house with a forge in it on Day 1. I have crafted my own iron tools. I like the building aspect of the game the most.

 

I don't have a problem with the changes.

[WolfyBlah]

I found a house with a forge in it on Day 1. I have crafted my own iron tools. I like the building aspect of the game the most.

 

I don't have a problem with the changes.

 

Im sorry but you are full of crap, you CANNOT craft the iron tools without the forge perk in its current implementation.

 

Edit: sorry if that came off a little harsh, but misinformation in cases like this helps nobody.

[With_Faith]

I've always enjoyed the building in this game, and I still do. I do also enjoy the longer early game. Yes it is currently more catered towards mass zombie killing, but I agree with a few tweaks to the experience system it will be better balanced between the difference play styles.

[Jedo]

Im sorry but you are full of crap, you CANNOT craft the iron tools without the forge perk in its current implementation.

 

Edit: sorry if that came off a little harsh, but misinformation in cases like this helps nobody.

 

I went and checked my game. You are right. My apologies. I guess I just found it somewhere. I had crafted a bunch of iron and stuff at the forge (and tinkered at the workbench at the nearby trader), so I just misremembered how I got it.

 

Still, I have my own iron tools (shovel, pick axe, and hoe), and I'm only on Day 3 in this game. If anything, it feels like a return to when you depended on RNGesus to succeed, and I don't mind that.

 

(I will say that I wouldn't mind if I didn't have those things. In another game where I didn't have them, I was still mining and building. That's what I love most, so I do it. I don't really pay attention to how quickly it comes about. My work is never really done.)

[Doctor3D]

I don't think it's intentionally this way to punish a certain playstyle. It's just simply not balanced very well AT ALL in this current state. The end-game is even worse as far as enjoyment for me - you are just sooo OP now when you start maxing out perks - it's not even funny. You're gonna have to really crank the difficulty or possibly even mod the zombie hand damage cause you can just stand there and let a zombie beat on you long enough to microwave a burrito before you even die with your armor and perks maxed.

 

Your situation is somewhat easy to combat - you could just go loot around for some cars and you'll find Iron tools relatively quickly. The loot is another unbalanced part of the game right now and you'll find virtually all the tools you need. Then just go out into the forest and within a few mins of running around you'll find a forge house. You can make forged iron to repair the tools and there you go..

[WolfyBlah]

Well this alpha is the worst by far to build in (stamina issues, swing speed being twice as slow as previous, takes minmium of 3 power attacks to mine a single stone voxel with a steel pick and maxed skills, zombies having buffed damage vs blocks to an unreasonable degree)

 

i honestly dont mind looting and RNG being an option, it just shouldnt be the only reasonable option for no valid reason, the way things are currently it dosent matter if you find a forge, you are still level locked out of creating the better tools)

 

Its ironic that this perk system is said to be giving us choices when infact its doing the exact opposite, this punishing of the builder/crafter playstyle is exactly what this thread is about.

[Jedo]

Except my playstyle is builder/crafter, and I don't feel punished.

[WolfyBlah]

I don't think it's intentionally this way to punish a certain playstyle. It's just simply not balanced very well AT ALL in this current state. The end-game is even worse as far as enjoyment for me - you are just sooo OP now when you start maxing out perks - it's not even funny. You're gonna have to really crank the difficulty or possibly even mod the zombie hand damage cause you can just stand there and let a zombie beat on you long enough to microwave a burrito before you even die with your armor and perks maxed.

 

Your situation is somewhat easy to combat - you could just go loot around for some cars and you'll find Iron tools relatively quickly. The loot is another unbalanced part of the game right now and you'll find virtually all the tools you need. Then just go out into the forest and within a few mins of running around you'll find a forge house. You can make forged iron to repair the tools and there you go..

 

Im still of the opinon that this has been done intentionally to punish the more build orientated players, as far as this alpha being an unbalanced mess i 100% agree but the blame for that rests squarely on the developers shoulders, they had over 16 months working on this alpha and this is what we ended up with?

 

Your solution is not very helpful, i could also just open the creative menu and give myself the tools, or edit the XMLs or any number of other 'solutions' but thats not the point of this exercise, the point is for the developers to hopefully see that thier current implementation of the perk system is forcing one playstyle over another.

 

I started in a9 and have the same issue with levels and gamestage that i have had since those features were implemented... its a reverse difficulty curve which ultimately pleases nobody... games are supposed to get harder as you progress not easier and by simply gimping a newly spawned player its never going to achive any other result.

 

Right now we have people purposfully not leveling up to avoid raising thier gamestage which speaks volumes about how bad this design is. Which is fine for people who play that way but people that want to craft thier own items are FORCED to level up to be able to craft them, again its punative to one group for no real reason.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Except my playstyle is builder/crafter, and I don't feel punished.

 

Clearly that is NOT your playstyle since you didnt craft your own tools, you looted them.

[HerrKingsley]

Except my playstyle is builder/crafter, and I don't feel punished.

 

Let's see how you feel about that when the bm horde comes.

[WolfyBlah]

To further my point a bit more:

Gamestage and XP are systems that dont make sense.

The smartest way to play a survival game is to AVOID danger (in this case, zombies) and yet if they provide xp which you need to be able to progress... its a catch 22 situation where you are damned if you do and damned if you dont.

 

If you are going to lock away essential recipes behind a wall be it XP, loot based or exploration based then its forcing the assosiated risks when that is the least smart survival decision ever, where is my XP for avoiding detection?

[fazi]

I don't think it's intentionally this way to punish a certain playstyle. It's just simply not balanced very well AT ALL in this current state. The end-game is even worse as far as enjoyment for me - you are just sooo OP now when you start maxing out perks - it's not even funny. You're gonna have to really crank the difficulty or possibly even mod the zombie hand damage cause you can just stand there and let a zombie beat on you long enough to microwave a burrito before you even die with your armor and perks maxed.

 

Your situation is somewhat easy to combat - you could just go loot around for some cars and you'll find Iron tools relatively quickly. The loot is another unbalanced part of the game right now and you'll find virtually all the tools you need. Then just go out into the forest and within a few mins of running around you'll find a forge house. You can make forged iron to repair the tools and there you go..

 

Everyone can really play as it wants, just not from day one.And that is normal.You want a big base, fine , by day 100 for sure you can have one.On A16, by day 100, you had like nothing left to do,Now, for example, i am using iron arows, cause i dont have steel yet.On a16 i used to jump directly from stone to steel.

Today, while looting a random horde apeared, and found me inside the POI i was upstairs.On A16, once you cleared the POI, you were safe. Now, when entering a POI, i have to think if i can do it or is to much for my lvl, on A16 i used to loot the skyscrapers with stone arrows and wooden club.Now, when i loot a can of food, i am happy, on A16 i just used to scrap them cause i had tons of food at home.

The game, its just much better now, yes it needs some balancing, yes some gates needs to be reduced or uped, but the game is much better.Just don't expect everything from day one as it used to be.

[fazi]

To further my point a bit more:

Gamestage and XP are systems that dont make sense.

The smartest way to play a survival game is to AVOID danger (in this case, zombies) and yet if they provide xp which you need to be able to progress... its a catch 22 situation where you are damned if you do and damned if you dont.

 

if you wanna play this game and totally avoid zombies, disable zombie spawn.This is not pure survival, is crafting, survival, building , killing zombies! Zombies are a core part of this game.Don't tell me you want to power level by mining....You can still lvl by crafting/building/mining/harvesting, but that does not have tobe the main way to lvl !

[HerrKingsley]

@fazi They could also hav given us real endgame content instead of chores. I bet that would have made you happy too.

[WolfyBlah]

Everyone can really play as it wants, just not from day one.And that is normal.You want a big base, fine , by day 100 for sure you can have one.On A16, by day 100, you had like nothing left to do,Now, for example, i am using iron arows, cause i dont have steel yet.On a16 i used to jump directly from stone to steel.

Today, while looting a random horde apeared, and found me inside the POI i was upstairs.On A16, once you cleared the POI, you were safe. Now, when entering a POI, i have to think if i can do it or is to much for my lvl, on A16 i used to loot the skyscrapers with stone arrows and wooden club.Now, when i loot a can of food, i am happy, on A16 i just used to scrap them cause i had tons of food at home.

The game, its just much better now, yes it needs some balancing, yes some gates needs to be reduced or uped, but the game is much better.Just don't expect everything from day one as it used to be.

 

Please check yor logic and assumptions, seems like a lot of people (including the developers) rarely play beyond the point they 'have everything' because they are bored/the game is over? My games do not end when i reach what you would consider endgame, that is when my game STARTS because im done with the level gates and assosiated crap. The 'early game' is the worst part of playing 7days for me (at least since the implementation of skills, item quality, ect)

 

Id say the game in this alpha is a hell of a lot worse than previous in terms of the ammount of fun i personaly draw from the game, stretching out the 'you suck' part of the game just means its all the longer until the fun part of the game actualy begins.

 

Im not into cheap deaths and scares caused by bad mechanics and systems (3D sound hasnt worked correctly on and off between alphas and even when the 3d elements did work some sounds just do not play when they are supposed to.)

[WolfyBlah]

if you wanna play this game and totally avoid zombies, disable zombie spawn.This is not pure survival, is crafting, survival, building , killing zombies! Zombies are a core part of this game.Don't tell me you want to power level by mining....You can still lvl by crafting/building/mining/harvesting, but that does not have tobe the main way to lvl !

 

You missed the point completely.

yes zombies are a core part of the game so telling me to disable them or play creative is NOT helpful in the slightest, i was merely pointing out that avoidance of zombies should be a valid gameplay option and i would argue is actualy more fun than just running around mindlessly killing.

 

If you re read what i have written you will see that im not asking for harvesting to be the main way to level in the slightest, im asking for a wide variety of gameplay styles to be acceptable, someone wants to spend all thier time playing whack a zombie? Thats fine by me, someone else wants to mine all day and night? Also fine

 

There is room for mutliple playstyles without hurting others (the exact point of this thread)