Prettier Minecraft vs Dark Souls with building and a good solution

[grieferbastard]

First, we're all playing pretendy fun-time games. There is no moral component to what one person likes vs another in a game. It's a game. Largely we're adults playing ZOMG Zombies Oh Look I Can Make A House Who Wants Bacon and Eggs. So as we talk about 'casual' vs 'hardcore' gameplay keep in mind neither has any more value vs the other than red vs blue.

 

One of the big changes in A17 has been level gating and a focus on leveling via killing zombies. People are throwing the term 'grind' around and that also needs tossed out. Everything is a 'grind' if you're trying to get the product of a given action and you're having to do the same action more than once to repeat the result you want. Mining, crafting, fighting, exploring, it's all a grind. There is no good grind vs bad grind other than 'grind I want to do' vs 'grind I don't want to do'. For valuation of those, see paragraph one.

 

What we're really talking about is risk management and risk vs reward. That's what all this comes down to. How much control do players get over the required risk required to get a particular reward. How much safety can they create, how much permanence. How much control do you have over what sort of grinding gives what rewards.

 

While it's more of a scale what we also have is two general camps. One wants something akin to minecraft, focused on building and crafting and resource management and survival mechanic management with zombies out in the world that have to be avoided or overcome when collecting the resources they're protecting. The ability to build a base with a reasonable expectation that the base and stuff in it is safe and that the risk will scale relative to the players ability to manage that risk. If they don't want to fight zombies save on BM, they can create that environment especially in MP so they feel like a dedicated crafter/builder with useful skills to provide for the people who focus on fighting.

 

The other wants a focus more on survival and risks you can't always manage. Dark Souls with building/crafting. Safety is something you work very, very hard for and the presence of zombies makes the world dangerous all the time. They want a sense of high risk, high reward. The crafting and building are a means to an end and not an end to themselves. Focusing too much on a single aptitude, combat or crafting, means you're going to get smashed when you're caught in a situation that needs the other.

 

Over the games development it's moved along the scale between those ideas. A16 was way towards the first group, A17 is closer to the second.

 

What we really need is a more complex difficulty system. Here's an example of the one from Conan Exiles.

 

 

A set of sliders for you to control what XP you get from what actions, how effective certain things are (like how much damage to blocks each swing does, etc). This lets people create servers and game experiences tailored to what they want on the scale between these experiences.

 

I want TFP to get everyones money. I want the game to be wildly successful. The concern people on both sides (or points on the scale) have is that it'll end up outside the range they find fun. Why not put the tools in to let the player adjust this to their own liking?

[OzHawkeye]

I want TFP to get everyones money. I want the game to be wildly successful. The concern people on both sides (or points on the scale) have is that it'll end up outside the range they find fun. Why not put the tools in to let the player adjust this to their own liking?

 

Me too.

 

So, if the Pimps DO decide to go nuts on the Options menu (I don't think they will, but it could happen), then, I'd be quite happy to accept a delay in other development tasks. Mo' players, mo' money, mo' content down the line for me.

[Pvthudson01]

The only thing is Conan Exiles is broken and it doesnt matter with the difficulty. They cant even get horde nights to work right. Have they patched that yet? Does the base attack thing work?

[grieferbastard]

The only thing is Conan Exiles is broken and it doesnt matter with the difficulty. They cant even get horde nights to work right. Have they patched that yet? Does the base attack thing work?

 

Not talking about the game itself; it's had ups and downs for certain, so has 7DTD. However the difficulty system seems like one that would work really, really well here.

[Rockspider]

I made a thread about this in pimp dreams a while back, would be a nice addition to me.

[grieferbastard]

There really isn't a good solution to the different wants from the game without something like this. Either it's going to cater to the high risk crowd or it's going to cater to the crafting/building crowd and the other will have less interest. It's absolutely go the potential for both, why not make that a reality?

[Gas]

I'm all for a custom experience and I think what you're talking about would be a great addition. I get the sense that TFP have swung back and forth on what they want the game to be as well, in addition to the player base.

[grieferbastard]

I'm all for a custom experience and I think what you're talking about would be a great addition. I get the sense that TFP have swung back and forth on what they want the game to be as well, in addition to the player base.

 

I really like that TFP have made big swings in game development and design. Sunk cost fallacy and clinging to bad ideas is a hallmark of bad games and stacking bad decisions on bad decisions. TFP is clearly looking for what works best and plays best, not how to get the most out of what they've already done. That's the difference between ending up with an okay game and an excellent game.