Firearms are a joke in this game and have been for several iterations.

[LutzderLurch]

Well, at some point, you have to stop and ask, if you even want to have any guns in the game at all. Why should I bother with a Single shot rifle, that reloads about as slow as a crossbow, is far more costly to operate and will attract zombies? Why on earth did ANYBODY at all in the history of the universe bother with firearms in the first place?

 

Also, the setting of 7dtd is seemingly an american one, yet in the country of more guns than people, where every other yankedoodle gets off on his 5 AR 15 rifles, and hunters pack more punch than a WWII army squad could hope for....

 

Why is the hunting rifle a single shot one, that even most conservative militaries abandoned in the second half of the 19th C?

 

I used to own a german Military rifle from the early 1880s, that actually really used an all lead bullet, and black powder (!) in brass shells, and it had a 8 shot magazine.

 

In my country, which is far FAR from being as gun laden as the US, pretty much all hunters at least have 5 shot rifles, many of the Mauser family of guns.

 

I also own a crossbow, and it is ridiculous how fast the crossbow is reloaded in this game.

[Snowydeath]

Well the game is set in Arizona so it’s definitely an American setting

[CoolJ]

You're the one who started this trip down the rabbit hole with saying all headshots should be a kill or close to it and........ There is no 'explosion'.

 

 

There are thousands of such videos on youtube. Even ones with arrows and swords etc.

 

Wow, just wow. Watch the cavity that opens up when a bullet goes into ballistic gelatin. AKA the closest approximation of flesh that we can make and still be able to see what is happening inside. You just have no clue of the energies involved here do you? There is no case or reason for zombies to not be stopped by a headshot from a firearm. Either in this game or in something approximating a real life situation. It's dumb that it happens in the game 100% of the time for several reasons. Only one of which would be minor realism. You can't honestly think that the way guns work in the game now is just fine. Everyone that is older than five knows I was making a generalization. My point is still clear. Zombies not dying to the most powerful weapons we have available to us in the game is a problem. The gun is what you go to when things get nasty and you need intervention from Poppa Browning. I mean why were guns even invented in the first place? Since 7 days to die logic says all battles should be fought with arrows and fire axes.

 

This is a case of forest for the trees. You are really trying to tell me you think a bullet to head usually amounts to a minor flesh wound to zombies as you perceive it. I am showing you video evidence that people that live through even handgun caliber headshots are among the luckiest people on the planet and I see no reason a zombie would be much different. That isn't even the most compelling argument I can make. More importantly, it feels stupid and is poor game balance.

[iicecube]

In the end i wonder zombies were already dead unless we splash the head like jelly if not a hole on zombie head doesnt made them lay down.

[Exxodous]

Yes, guns MUST perform like in real life especially since everything else in this game is so believable. It really breaks immersion that when I shoot a mutated acid vomiting cop, carrying several tons of rock and 45 trees in my backpack that they don't just die already.

 

/sarcasm off

[canadianbluebeer]

Gun damage does need work, and is even stated as such in the items.xml.

 

9mm: yeah, pistol to head, mebbe not ded.

Shotgun to head: birdshot: no. slug: oh yeah.

7.62: 7.62x39 (AK) mebbe. 7.62x51 or standard .308: ayup. yer ded, ded, ded. (gonna be missing a big chunk of yer noggin)

.50 cal : you ain't got no noggin no more. done like dinner.

 

No .50 in game (yet) is why I'm modding UP the rifle damage (a lot)

 

You get hit with a Barrett, yer toast. (well, painting the walls most likely)

[Vedui]

For me, the problem I see is the headshot damage was removed.

 

In A16 depending on weapon, it could be up to 7x (or 9x was it?) for sniper. So you could headshot a cop once or twice and drop them. And a radiated a few times. Now .. no. Even perking up 150 % damage bonus to headshots at lvl 5 is way too little.

 

They should put it back, headshot damage by default being 2x or 3x, and then just let the headshot perk be EXTRA multiplier. It really feels really dumb to headshot a zombie with a hunting rifle, several times, before he drops dead.

 

/V -

[toores]

IMO the whole point comes down to it's not fun to shoot bullet sponges and count headshots - after so and so many headshots this type of zombie goes down and after so much more it will die.

[beHypE]

The whole discussion about realism and simulating real gun behavior / damage is ridiculous. The whole game isn't realistic to begin with, please stop thinking making guns act like they do IRL is the solution to make them good.

 

I agree with OP. Guns are way too abundant, not thrilling at all to find, and don't really bring much to the table compared to a simple bow/arrow combination, especially when taking into account that you need to craft bullets, repair them, and make a ton of noise.

 

I think guns should be super rare (who cares if it's in the United States where there are a lot of guns) and trigger a major "YAY!" when you find one, ammo should be super scarce and difficult to craft, but the guns need to feel powerful and useful and dominate basic weaponry such a wooden clubs and bows (even compound). Not saying everything should be an insta kill with a HS, but it should pack some good power to make them worthwhile, fun & feel rewarding to use.

 

Also, a lvl 1 pistol should sometimes miss, get jammed or whatever, while a lvl 6 pistol should be super accurate and almost never fail at doing what it does. Right now the difference is too minimal to be immersive.

[Chronosphere]

think being educated yet failing to see what video games are. IS IT REAL LIFE MATE???? no its not so eitehr you shut up or pull up. zombies doesnt exist in reallife so why areyou not complaining about there zombies in a video game rather then in reallife? i mean do you see your whole essay or confusion and missrepritation? ludachrist. well take this example then, why does arrows break on zombies faces? steel arrows broke on rotten flesh must be logic right? ....

[CoolJ]

think being educated yet failing to see what video games are. IS IT REAL LIFE MATE???? no its not so eitehr you shut up or pull up. zombies doesnt exist in reallife so why areyou not complaining about there zombies in a video game rather then in reallife? i mean do you see your whole essay or confusion and missrepritation? ludachrist. well take this example then, why does arrows break on zombies faces? steel arrows broke on rotten flesh must be logic right? ....

 

......

[Kalarro]

The problem is with feel and satisfaction.

 

Except your suggestion would take away all the satisfaction from progression, finding better weapons, getting better perks, fighting tougher zombies...

No thanks

[Katitof]

Non-argument. If you don't have access to a firearm from the first minute in the game then it is not easy. If you only have five rounds and there are 30 zombies, it is not easy. Take more than five seconds to formulate an actual rebuttal and get back to me.

 

It still is easy.

Early game Zs, when there are no ferals are just pushovers.

 

And if you want to OHK them in the head, get proper perks and use proper weapons.

 

Magnum, hunting and sniper rifles OHK them just fine and so does slug shotgun.

[Aldranon]

What I didn't see was the use for any bow weapons. SMG's and Marksman rifles in pretty large numbers, are the end of bows. I just used the ammo from AK's for my marksman rifles.

 

That whole stage in the ranged abilities can be skipped.

[canadianbluebeer]

Early game, when bullets are scarce, I save the ammo for deer/bears/wolves. (deer because they still runaway, and I don't wanna chase'em)

 

Bow/club for regular zeds though.

 

Bloodmoon, well, guns are faster at killing, but slow loading. I swap between bow/gun early on.

[Luzifer]

Well the skills provide the ability to make bows a very competitive alternative to regular Guns. They're very cheap to sustain too which makes them a very good and steady early to mid game Solution.

[Shillen]

I hate "realism" arguments where you penetrate something's skull it must be dead. Get the hell out of here with that stuff. It's a video game.

[Aerial]

The biggest problem with guns is that bows are way too powerful comparatively.

 

I suspect the game would be much better if the wooden bow was deleted outright. Make compound bows the only bow available, and make it require mods before it will do respectable damage. The bow should be useful for hunting and vultures, and maybe some of the softer zombies if you're willing to spend multiple arrows on each. And for situations where you absolutely need to be quiet.

 

Guns should be the go-to weapons for most circumstances.

[Aldranon]

The low rate of fire makes bow a poor choice against things that can kill your character.

 

I use my Marksman against game animals anything that's fast and incoming. I use the SMG when things are close and dangerous.

Everything else I can use a wood club on.

[Randomdude]

The biggest problem with guns is that bows are way too powerful comparatively.

 

I will respectfully disagree on the bow thing. You're taking away a play style if you do this. There are some hardcore bow and arrow stealth types out there that the compound bow (used to be the crossbow, but it SUCKS now) is their bread and butter. To go even further I would buff the arrow damage for late game (Maybe acid arrows that dissolve brains) and the stealth bonuses.

 

What you might want is a buff for guns, which I understand. What I don't agree with is a "buff" to guns by nerfing bows.

[PoppaTot]

think being educated yet failing to see what video games are. IS IT REAL LIFE MATE???? no its not so eitehr you shut up or pull up. zombies doesnt exist in reallife so why areyou not complaining about there zombies in a video game rather then in reallife? i mean do you see your whole essay or confusion and missrepritation? ludachrist. well take this example then, why does arrows break on zombies faces? steel arrows broke on rotten flesh must be logic right? ....

 

what?....

[PoppaTot]

I will respectfully disagree on the bow thing. You're taking away a play style if you do this. There are some hardcore bow and arrow stealth types out there that the compound bow (used to be the crossbow, but it SUCKS now) is their bread and butter. To go even further I would buff the arrow damage for late game (Maybe acid arrows that dissolve brains) and the stealth bonuses.

 

What you might want is a buff for guns, which I understand. What I don't agree with is a "buff" to guns by nerfing bows.

 

I agree, stealth and bow zed hunting is extremely fun imo

[grieferbastard]

 

There are thousands of such videos on youtube. Even ones with arrows and swords etc.

 

Wow, just wow. Watch the cavity that opens up when a bullet goes into ballistic gelatin. AKA the closest approximation of flesh that we can make and still be able to see what is happening inside. You just have no clue of the energies involved here do you? There is no case or reason for zombies to not be stopped by a headshot from a firearm. Either in this game or in something approximating a real life situation. It's dumb that it happens in the game 100% of the time for several reasons. Only one of which would be minor realism. You can't honestly think that the way guns work in the game now is just fine. Everyone that is older than five knows I was making a generalization. My point is still clear. Zombies not dying to the most powerful weapons we have available to us in the game is a problem. The gun is what you go to when things get nasty and you need intervention from Poppa Browning. I mean why were guns even invented in the first place? Since 7 days to die logic says all battles should be fought with arrows and fire axes.

 

This is a case of forest for the trees. You are really trying to tell me you think a bullet to head usually amounts to a minor flesh wound to zombies as you perceive it. I am showing you video evidence that people that live through even handgun caliber headshots are among the luckiest people on the planet and I see no reason a zombie would be much different. That isn't even the most compelling argument I can make. More importantly, it feels stupid and is poor game balance.

 

So, again. You're trying to cherry pick clean hits on a stationary mock up target in a controlled setting vs the actual statistics of what head injuries are like and medical reports from the actual doctors who deal with head injuries from firearms.

 

To reiterate. 42% of head wounds from firearms are not fatal. Of the brain only the bit in the back and a narrow strip down the middle are the bits you need to do zombie stuff. The shock, blood loss and trauma that puts people down doesn't apply to zombies that's the point of zombies. If I blow the left 3rd of his skull out it would instantly kill a human but a zombie, in theory obviously, doesn't care.

 

Which, again as I said, doesn't matter. What's stupidly unrealistic is that you have the accuracy of a zero point control mechanism at a desk when in reality running backwards down a street being chased by zombies carrying 120lbs of awkward gear in your pack in scrap metal armor. Or that you're not bed ridden most the time from your infections, pulled muscles and healing injuries.

 

It is not ever about realism but a balance between game balance and suspension of disbelief. You want to mod up guns to be OHK so you can god mode around, do it. It's a game. If that's fun for you then fo so. However for the rest of us I don't feel like that's necessary for me to enjoy the game and would in fact enjoy it less because it makes the game less balanced and challenging.

 

Again, as I said before, I'm all for firearms coming up a bit and madmole has said he's working on that. However game balance > realism, like with carry capacity, stamina, mobility, accuracy, health, healing and every other facet of the game.

[Aerial]

I will respectfully disagree on the bow thing. You're taking away a play style if you do this. There are some hardcore bow and arrow stealth types out there that the compound bow (used to be the crossbow, but it SUCKS now) is their bread and butter. To go even further I would buff the arrow damage for late game (Maybe acid arrows that dissolve brains) and the stealth bonuses.

 

What you might want is a buff for guns, which I understand. What I don't agree with is a "buff" to guns by nerfing bows.

 

I'd be totally okay with making the compound bow a weapon that's maybe a little weak in early game but becomes highly effective with stealth perks and bow mods. I think that would be a great way to go. What I don't like is the existence of a bow we can craft out of sticks and grass that's better than a 9mm pistol.

[grieferbastard]

As to bows vs guns, a good compund bow delivers a stupid amount of kenetic energy. No issue with similar damage. Bow fires slower and has a draw time and a slow projectile but is quiet. That's a perfectly reasonable balance factor.