Devs, is this balancing possible or are we set on direction?

[PoppaTot]

Just balancing out the XP (not nerfing zombie XP) to increase mining/building to be equivalent to that of zombies I think would satisfy a lot of the community.

 

I'm tryin not to speak for the community as a whole because I know this is just my opinion, but my basis for this statement is because of the many threads that I have regarding this issue.

 

So, is this a possibility, or does it not fit into the direction you envision the game going to when final?

 

I only ask because I'm sensing that the building in this game is being phased out and hope that is not the case.

 

Thanks in advance for any response!

[Kattla]

We had decent xp for mining in A16. In my experience it was horrible, especially when using the auger.

IE: I went down to mine in the night, and came back up 10-15 levels higher.

[PoppaTot]

We had decent xp for mining in A16. In my experience it was horrible, especially when using the auger.

IE: I went down to mine in the night, and came back up 10-15 levels higher.

 

I do recall that, so possibly nerf it when the auger is equipped to a 3rd XP gained for example.

[SylenThunder]

They have said that they are still working on balancing that out. This is experimental after all.

[PoppaTot]

They have said that they are still working on balancing that out. This is experimental after all.

 

lol, I'm aware that this is experimental and that is why I asking now instead of waiting until it is not.

[Krougal]

I do recall that, so possibly nerf it when the auger is equipped to a 3rd XP gained for example.

 

Well that does fit the theme of punishing you for advancing

Oh, you've go the best tool now, and likely the skills to make you as efficient as you can be, nerf! LMAO

 

Mining XP was ridiculous in A16. I kinda like it that you need to kill zeds to level now. Or more properly I hate it less, because I hate all things RPGish. I'd rather not have levels or skills and just play the game and so then if I need materials I'll mine, if I need stuff that needs to be looted I'll go looking for loot, if my base needs improvement I'll go do it, etc, etc...and if I don't have a pressing need to do any of these things then I'm going to go explore and kill. Like it was in the old days. The reward for doing an activity was doing that activity and whatever you gained from it, and that was reward enough.

 

If XP for zeds are dropped and/or XP from other sources raised, then we might as well just go back to the A16 skills & perks.

[PoppaTot]

Well that does fit the theme of punishing you for advancing

Oh, you've go the best tool now, and likely the skills to make you as efficient as you can be, nerf! LMAO

 

Mining XP was ridiculous in A16. I kinda like it that you need to kill zeds to level now. Or more properly I hate it less, because I hate all things RPGish. I'd rather not have levels or skills and just play the game and so then if I need materials I'll mine, if I need stuff that needs to be looted I'll go looking for loot, if my base needs improvement I'll go do it, etc, etc...and if I don't have a pressing need to do any of these things then I'm going to go explore and kill. Like it was in the old days. The reward for doing an activity was doing that activity and whatever you gained from it, and that was reward enough.

 

If XP for zeds are dropped and/or XP from other sources raised, then we might as well just go back to the A16 skills & perks.

 

I think you may have missed the point, but that's my fault for not providing more context.

 

I'm totally fine now with the level locks, the skill tree, all of that. Just not that the only way to level is to go Zed farming.

 

Especially on MP, want to take a day off of going into one of the many of repetitive (still cool for a while, but like anything get to be meh after so many) dungeon houses just to farm XP and loot so you can mine and build? That's ok to do that, as long as you don't mind getting totally behind on levels and being next to useless when horde night comes.

 

It does eventually level out later around lvl 80ish from what I've seen, but the miner/builder shouldn't be punished for simply trying to help the community.

[LuckyStar]

We had decent xp for mining in A16. In my experience it was horrible, especially when using the auger.

IE: I went down to mine in the night, and came back up 10-15 levels higher.

 

Yeah agreed!

 

It was a bit much.

 

 

I'm totally fine now with the level locks, the skill tree, all of that. Just not that the only way to level is to go Zed farming.

 

Bit of an exaggeration don't you think?

 

You get levels from all sorts of stuff.

Just playing the game normally will level you.

 

I don't see this whole thing about

"I have to do nothing at all ever ever ever except kill zombies... and nothing else... ever... at all."

 

Come on really?

 

Yes the game could use a little balancing.

I'll agree with you there.

Is it as bad as your statement makes it out to be?

Nowhere near.

[RestInPieces]

Already suggested - nerf the zombie xp, make levels harder to get BUT lower the level locks. Result should be same progression rate, fewer points to spread but consequently fewer level locks to worry about. That's just a band-aid suggestion though and people will not like it (at first).

[LuckyStar]

Already suggested - nerf the zombie xp, make levels harder to get BUT lower the level locks. Result should be same progression rate, fewer points to spread but consequently fewer level locks to worry about. That's just a band-aid suggestion though and people will not like it (at first).

 

Yeah this is just going to take some patience.

Balancing takes a really long time to get right.

 

If people just relax and give TFP a chance I'm sure they'll find the end product A17 will be really great.

 

Suggestions for changes are good, yes, but... WOW there's a lot of disproportionate complaining going on.

[konrax]

I think the main goal here is to try and reward surviving in a survival game.

 

That being said I think the xp should be better for building / mining etc, the zombie xp seems to be in a good place and should always be the best option for gaining xp imho.

[PoppaTot]

Come on really?

 

Yes the game could use a little balancing.

I'll agree with you there.

Is it as bad as your statement makes it out to be?

Nowhere near.

 

I respect your opinion, however, we don't share the same opinion. Hence why I made the post.

[Poojam]

Yeah this is just going to take some patience.

Balancing takes a really long time to get right.

 

If people just relax and give TFP a chance I'm sure they'll find the end product A17 will be really great.

 

Suggestions for changes are good, yes, but... WOW there's a lot of disproportionate complaining going on.

 

BS.

 

Go mining for 24 hours and see how many levels you get.

 

Then go kill some zeds.

 

Others, who have played A17e and provided data, have indicated it's worlds apart in terms of xp gain. Stop trying to dismiss everyone's posts, simply because it's your opinion that the current xp gameplay is adequate.

[Arnatos]

Just want to agree with PoppaTot. For me 7dtd always was game about barelly surviving in world filed with this scary zombie creatures. Now its more like grinding in World of warcraft killing trash. Now its game of looking for zombies and maniacally killing them.. Best beginer strat is to murder hundrets of zombies to get exp and lvl's. I miss mechanics where actualy mining incresed my mining dmg anf fighting my mele dmg. Now i kill zombies to learn to cook. Kill zombies to learn to smith, kill zombies to build a bike and kill zombies to learn how to build stronger buildings?!?! I'm sorry but it's quite retarded. I much prefered old dual system where you learn skils like mining or shoting by mining and shoting and also had perks. This system changed zombies from dangerous enemy to helples prey that needs to be farmed for exp.

 

I Think that bringing back part of sytstem where you had to mine or fight or craft to improve mining fighting crafting + adjusting exp gain much in favor of building and scavenging is a must. Zombie should be obstacles and dangers to be avoided in game and engaged only when there is no other choice. Not something you intentionaly searh for.

[RestInPieces]

the zombie xp seems to be in a good place and should always be the best option for gaining xp imho.

 

Why do you think so?

 

I think that xp sources should be as balanced as possible, so that the gameflow (player's actions) aren't affected as much by the motive to level up and affected more by the player's preferences, as well as the player's survival needs.

 

Many already see leveling up as a zombie grind because of the disproportionate xp rewards. The more xp differences are minimized, the more leveling up will be viewed as a natural process that complements the game instead of being its goal.

[PoppaTot]

Why do you think so?

 

I think that xp sources should be as balanced as possible, so that the gameflow (player's actions) aren't affected as much by the motive to level up and affected more by the player's preferences, as well as the player's survival needs. Many already see leveling up as a zombie grind because of the disproportionate xp rewards. The more differences are minimized, the more leveling up will be viewed as a natural process that complements the game instead of being its goal.

 

+1 100%

[LuckyStar]

BS.

 

Go mining for 24 hours and see how many levels you get.

 

Then go kill some zeds.

 

Others, who have played A17e and provided data, have indicated it's worlds apart in terms of xp gain. Stop trying to dismiss everyone's posts, simply because it's your opinion that the current xp gameplay is adequate.

 

We get plenty of levels from cutting trees and mining.

 

Is it as fast as Killing Zeds?

No.

Could it use some balancing?

Yes.

Is it as bad as you're making it out to be?

Nope.

 

And the only thing I'm dismissing is your lousy attitude..... as usual.

 

 

I respect your opinion, however, we don't share the same opinion. Hence why I made the post.

 

And I respect your respecting of my respectful view of your view on things and stuff.... respectfully.

 

 

You made some good posts... I didn't agree but I can respect that you most certainly made them.

[Jedo]

BS.

 

Go mining for 24 hours and see how many levels you get.

 

Then go kill some zeds.

 

Why is it about getting levels? I just play the game. Even when things were gated behind books I didn't go raid Crack-a-Books for the stuff; I just went about doing what seemed good for my character's survival.

[Gazz]

Keep in mind that you do not only get XP from harvesting.

You also get to keep the resources and build a mighty fortress for the zombies to turn into rubble. =)

[cricket504]

I think there is a lot of balancing to do. Talking with friends last night the thing to consider is are we chasing off new players? The nerf to mining has been huge. Its not just xp/skill nerf but also the pace is nerfed drastically with the stamina limitations. How much wandering around will a new player put up with as they just don't have the skill for most of the POI's. Since there is FAR less loot, harder to gain resources, new players might just give up with the pace of advancing. This nerf feels more so if your a solo player as it feels like to get into any larger POI's you better be in a team or player level 100+. I fully understand a slower progression, but right now I think there is just way too much grind. Harder play can be done with the mods, but if the base game does not hook players, there won't be new players. The ultra hard players are the small part of the gamer pool, don't loose the rest to the desires of the top 10% of players. Things like the last room on a quest filled with 5 feral and tight room, yea is that really a tier 1 quest?

[RestInPieces]

Why is it about getting levels? I just play the game. Even when things were gated behind books I didn't go raid Crack-a-Books for the stuff; I just went about doing what seemed good for my character's survival.

 

I don't doubt that is how you play the game, but the fact remains that the game itself creates a tendency for something. It's natural for a lot of people to see it as a "zombie grind" if the game motivates you to level up and killing zombies is the best way to achieve that.

 

Keep in mind that you do not only get XP from harvesting.

You also get to keep the resources and build a mighty fortress for the zombies to turn into rubble. =)

 

That's why I said above that xp sources should be as balanced as possible in order for the player's actions to be affected mostly by his survival needs and preferences. And killing zombies also nets you with extra gains, when looting POIs etc. Imo don't try to balance exp of activities, also considering the benefits of activities - xp benefits are a different kind of animal.

[Poojam]

I think there is a lot of balancing to do. Talking with friends last night the thing to consider is are we chasing off new players? The nerf to mining has been huge. Its not just xp/skill nerf but also the pace is nerfed drastically with the stamina limitations. How much wandering around will a new player put up with as they just don't have the skill for most of the POI's. Since there is FAR less loot, harder to gain resources, new players might just give up with the pace of advancing. This nerf feels more so if your a solo player as it feels like to get into any larger POI's you better be in a team or player level 100+. I fully understand a slower progression, but right now I think there is just way too much grind. Harder play can be done with the mods, but if the base game does not hook players, there won't be new players. The ultra hard players are the small part of the gamer pool, don't loose the rest to the desires of the top 10% of players. Things like the last room on a quest filled with 5 feral and tight room, yea is that really a tier 1 quest?

 

I think it's far more likely that the new players will buy the game because they want a Fallout clone/action RPG experience, and enjoy it. They don't know the game had depth and alternative playstyles that allowed for specialization (miner, scavenger, fighter, harvester) and permitted those players to roughly be as successful at levelling as the next. All of the people that have been around for the last few years are the ones that are disappointed. What they liked is now dead, and we have a simpler playset. The formula for survival is bonking zombies on their heads to win.

[gfoster610]

I would have to agree with the point that not all actions are equal at this stage. It's abundantly clear that killing zombies gives you much more XP than any other action. I would also agree that this update did push players into a certain play style.

 

It's not only that, but how slowly you build/dig/etc besides killing at the start. I rolled mine back to A16 and started a new game.

 

It's like night an day comparison to A17. I could dig down 5 blocks easily 5 times faster in A16 than A17 on day 1. Building is the same way. Place a frame down. A16 - 2 hits and it's built . A17 - 5 hits and it's built, and they are slower hits.

 

Also, I built the beginnings of my base in 2 days, had enough levels to put points into tool and weapon crafting, and was able to then go out hunting and scavenging without any worries.

 

If all actions do get the same amount of XP, I might update again. If they fix the extreme slowness of building and stamina drain, then for sure.

[PoppaTot]

Why is it about getting levels? I just play the game. Even when things were gated behind books I didn't go raid Crack-a-Books for the stuff; I just went about doing what seemed good for my character's survival.

 

For me, levels = progression to things that I want to do in the game. May not be the same for everyone. When level locks are put in place (which I'm OK with now, initially was not) my focus was shifted to "how many levels do I need to get to unlock XXXX to play the way I feel it's fun. Again, I'm OK with that, however, making the main/almost only viable source of XP to be farming zombies makes the game repetitive and unbalanced to me.

 

Just my opinion.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Keep in mind that you do not only get XP from harvesting.

You also get to keep the resources and build a mighty fortress for the zombies to turn into rubble. =)

 

I can accept that as well, however, the penalty of not staying leveled with MP server is severe by taking the time away from zombie farming to do this.

[RestInPieces]

and stamina drain

 

Don't want to derail the thread, but come on. In A16 stamina was non-issue, mostly a decorative UI element. Here it restrains your actions just a bit if you are fully satiated (which you should) and still becomes a non-issue at higher levels.