Jump to content

Level Gating - An RPG Comparison


lazerblade01

Recommended Posts

I'm not going to go into all the clutter of various threads praising or damning the new level gating system, which is just a revamp of the old level gating system, which was just a revamp of the book gating system.

 

Instead, I'd like to discuss how other games do it, and compare those to how 7DTD does it, and what would improve what we have now, taking into consideration everything we've already tried - see the first line of this thread.

 

Every single hack-n-slash RPG I've ever played for any significant amount of time had one very specific thing in common when talking about unlocking "skills" (also called perks, powers, spells, abilities, and various other names) - a separation of skill tree and attributes.

 

Consider Diablo, Grim Dawn, Torchlight, Van Helsing - each time you leveled up, you had points available for attributes that, when increased, unlocked your ability to use better weapons, armor and accessories (tools). You were also given skill points which would allow you to unlock spells or abilities (or both), which themselves gated advancement in that specific skill tree branch.

 

As a generic example not specific to any one of these games but similar, you had to learn firebolt before you could learn fireball and firewall. You had to have firebolt at level 5 before you could unlock fireball, then fireball at level 5 before you could unlock firewall. Eventually you could unlock rain of fire. Each skill was a significant upgrade to the previous, and each level of a skill improved on the previous.

 

Also of note in all of the aforementioned games was the fact that not one of them was open world. You couldn't take on level 30 mobs until you unlocked the map segment where level 30 mobs spawned, by completing quests in the level 10 and level 20 areas, respectively.

 

So what does this have to do with 7DTD? Below are ideas on how to make an RPG experience out of what we have.

 

7DTD is an open world sandbox horde survival building crafting game. This makes it difficult to mitigate difficulty based on area - but not impossible. At one point, there was discussion about making "difficulty rings" - areas at specific radii from center that got progressively more difficult the further you were from the center of the map. A lot of people liked that idea for solo and co-op games, but it would make PVP far more difficult, since easy prey would always be near the center of the map. Perhaps an option for this type of RWG would fit both camps.

 

Having a skill tree that relies on attributes to unlock skills seems rather trivial. Locking resources behind progression also seems rather trivial. Want to make an iron tool? You need a forge (can be found in the world). But you also need a blacksmithing skill, which requires a strength of 5 and an intelligence of 2. Want an orange or yellow iron axe? You'll need to increase your intelligence to 3 or 4, so you can unlock blacksmithing level 2. Want steel tools (these were removed a while back, yes?)? You need blacksmithing level 5 and strength level 8, along with intelligence level 3 (minimum).

 

You could also lock resources behind specific tools - stone axe can be used to chop down smaller trees and break boulders, but not to mine actual terrain voxels. Stone shovel can remove clay and dirt, but nothing more. You'd need an iron pickaxe to break through a metal door or crack open a safe, and an iron axe to chop down larger trees and wooden building blocks (beyond wooden frames). Stone axe can still break windows and window frames, and break through cheap wooden doors and wood barricades.

 

Stamina - seems to be one of the bigger gripes. Most RPG's don't have stamina. None of the ones listed above do. So how do we tie stamina into an RPG? A simple attribute. Agility is basically the stamina of RPG's. Although, agility is also so much more in your typical RPG. Increase agility to increase stamina, and at the same time increase movement speed, swing speed, reload speed, and decrease penalties for wearing heavier armor.

 

Want to make a chemistry station? You'll need to unlock science level 5, intelligence level 8, and chemistry level 2. But what does science level 1 get you, or chemistry level 1? Well, take anything that requires science and anything that requires chemistry and figure out where these things fit into the skill tree. Maybe science level 1 lets you craft medicated bandages. Maybe chemistry level 1 lets you make grain alcohol, or aloe cream.

 

Most RPG's have at least 3, but some have 4 or even 5, attributes you can increase. 7DTD added perception and fortitude, along with strength, intelligence and agility. Fortitude can be dissolved into strength and agility, or left as a 5th attribute, with its own skill tree - doesn't make a huge difference as long as the skills locked behind it are logical. Perception can be the key to bartering, looting and salvaging (currently tied to looting and salvaging). Also, bartering is tied to intelligence but can be tied to 2 attributes.

 

Nearly everything in the game now can fit into some skill or perk, and be given a logical, non-limiting path of progression through attribute allocation.

 

It seems that the biggest gripe people have with the current system isn't that it's too hard to unlock skills, perks or recipes - it's that it isn't logical. You earn points at each level, but there's no logic to why you can't spend the points toward a specific path you want to unlock. The logic is missing because the path is blocked by character level, instead of attribute level. Change that, and level gates disappear, allowing everyone to focus on the path they want, instead of grinding the levels they need.

 

If TFP is using Fallout 4 (or 3) as their blueprint on how RPG's should work, then they're doing it wrong. Fallout is as much an RPG as Minecraft is. They should be looking at actual RPG's, like the ones mentioned above.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course in your typical RPG, kiling mobs is the only way to level up, but again, those don't have base building or crafting, and looting is simply a means of getting better gear or something to sell so you can buy better gear. The whole system would need to be overhauled to fit with this type of game, but I think it's doable, at least on some levels.

 

Remove XP loss on death, tie game stages to character level (instead of zombie kill count), balance XP gains from other activities to fit in line with XP gains from zombie kills, and tie meters (health, food, water, stamina, perception) to attributes, and it'll feel a lot more like an RPG with progression.

 

I'll likely just have to make a mod that does all of this for me, and if / when I do, I'll share it with those interested.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I appreciated in level gating, was the slower progression rate which in my opinion is absolutely essential, since the game didn't properly exploit its own content and felt short, which was expressed by many during A16, since players could get "end game" items quite easily and make any sense of progress trivial.

 

That said, I think that the gating could be done in more seamless ways. Fallout 3's perks (which are surely not as pivotal as in 7D) are gated both by levels and attributes, but the player barely notices it. Atm the player gets a lot of perk points which he has to spread in perks he may not want to, because he is blocked by level walls. It is no wonder level gating was ill-received.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...